FSW WORLDWIDE

[Lord_Tony]

True. Hope Modiji does not see your post and your name.

oh ya I've heard this name too, the roads were blocked when he visited Sydney.

 

[Lord_Tony]

See, India started growing after 1991 when it opened up to the idea of privatization. A lot of things have changed since then. There are issues though, and depending on who you are, you'll see them or not e.g. a male's perspective would be different from a female's perspective about safety and inclusion. So, everyone pretty much has their opinion based on what they see.

Ya I understand thats exactly like the Americans liberals vs conservatives and elements who support Mr.Trump

 

[imransyed]

I don't understand what you both are saying I work with a lot of IT personnel from your country, peers and bosses. They all tell me the country had improved leaps and bounds last 10 years with your current President leading the federal government, he is well respected by every leader overseas, and is doing a lot to make your country developed soon. The old federal government by Gandhi's family was supposedly bad and corrupt but now all that is over.

Yeah welcome to the new nationalist narrative of right wing Indians, for whom India has only become what it is today because of the current Prime Minister.
Try asking them the following questions someday casually: If india has improved by leaps and bounds in the past 10 years, why are you here? Or, why is there a record number of im/emigration from India? Or why has communal violence and crime skyrocketed in the past ten years? Or why has this rise been left unchecked? You may get a lot of talking but there won't be much content in their words, I guarantee you that much.

I believe that Canada has the capacity to accommodate that many permanent residents. Believe it or not, Canada actually builds the most homes per capita in the G7. What Canada cannot accommodate is this huge influx of temporary migrants. If you slash the number of students and temporary migrants by 40 or 50%, there’s going to be a a drastic improvement in affordability. If the government is smart, they will focus on giving international students the message that PR is not a guarantee and that many will have to go back once their education is up. They can start by capping the issuance of student visas. Their conversation rates into PR are pathetic enough with only 30% of them getting PR. The sad reality is that no one gives a crap about temporary workers and international students. They cannot vote and their low wage work barely provides anything in terms of taxes. Their situation is similar to undocumented Mexicans in the US and Indians in the Gulf. They are exploited to the max by the big corps and tossed aside once they’ve been used. It’s better to end their misery by asking them to leave once their education is up. I feel bad in the sense that many of them who are from India, are desperately trying to escape the shithole known as “India”. Having said that, it’s not Canada’s responsibility nor obligation to improve their lives. The negative consequences of allowing them to stay are far greater than the benefits.

India is definitely a shithole. But ykw? So is Canada. It really depends on who you ask.
Indian gdp number is a huge snake oil sales pitch. GDP per capita is really low but i personally feel people earning gdp pc income in India are MUCH better off than people in Canada making gdp pc.
Wealth inequality is much worse in India than in Canada. Tough time to be poor in Canada, miserable and cruel to be poor in India.
Not before long, there was a new narrative in India that we don't need manufacturing, we are going to skip and become a service economy directly from an agriculture based economy. This narrative has now faded because India is in a LUCKY position while China and US fight it out.

I have to say this, what Canada is doing to its TFW is MUCH WORSE than what GCC countries do to its imported labor.
The kind of jobs TFWs are doing here? Unskilled migrants do in GCC while their (crap) housing is guaranteed. Not praising GCC, but at least they dont sell a Dream of a good life that TFWs are sold.

 

[Lord_Tony]

Yet, from your statements, I’m guessing those IT personnel are all abroad. The issue is that total GDP and GDP growth is an absolutely meaningless figure if it doesn’t improve the living standards of the common folk in the country. India excels at GDP growth but the primary reason for that being excessive population. It’s absolutely dismal in terms of productivity. Hence, the GDP per capita is among the bottom tier list of countries in terms of rankings, about 127.

Yup I heard from some folks I knew in Melbourne and Sydney Australia. Now here in Toronto 60% of my peers and bosses are from India, 90% of my subordinates are from India too. I've have heard it mostly from peers and bosses mostly, who keep singing praises all the time, greet each other as "Jay see Ram" or some similar sentence.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I have to say this, what Canada is doing to its TFW is MUCH WORSE than what GCC countries do to its imported labor.

C'mon mate, I'm not the biggest Canada lover but comparing GCC to Canada saying GCC is much better is not even close. They actively seize passports from the South Asians and other developing country passport holders, treating them close to near-slavery. Even the 'professional' class of workers are underpaid in comparison to their Arab or Western counterparts. Sure, you may still be taking home a higher take-home pay but the sheer disrespect of just being paid differently from where you came from and not your skills would be disgusting to me. One's self respect is more important than a few extra shillings

Canada is like a place where you can live a nice, stable middle class life. You won't get too rich, probably spend 15-20 years paying a mortgage for an average house but that's about it. Not really the place to build wealth. If you come from a shithole country, its still worth it. If you come from Western Europe, East Asia/Singapore or US, it's likely not worth it. Although these days France and UK are probably becoming worse than Canada.

 

[GandiBaat]

I feel bad in the sense that many of them who are from India, are desperately trying to escape the shithole known as “India”. Having said that, it’s not Canada’s responsibility nor obligation to improve their lives. The negative consequences of allowing them to stay are far greater than the benefits.

Look, those whose life is shit in India will never be able to leave India. Think B.Ed 33 year old with sketchy english skills who rents his accomodation. And this kind of folks are actually among better off in India. The people whose life will really change if they come to Canada will never get a chance to come here. Its that simple. Even those who take risk of being killed in human trafficking can not come to Canada if they were not from a rather well to do family in India. The Patels who died at US borders were from classic business families of Gujarat.

People who move out of India are already in upper middle class or have familial assets to assist their move. People with degrees and jobs paying much much above the average. Or people with substantial amount of land. Or people with substantial amount of rental properties or cash.

Now once you are in upper middle class in India, life is... actually good. I mean my wife complains that she and my mother have to take care of my son. In India we could have easily afforded someone to do it. Actually may be 2 or 3 persons. In India we had house help for cleaning, doing dishes, doing laundry, driving vehicles and what not. People do not realise but due to abundant amount of man power, upper middle class is living like kings in India. There are places where India fails ie pollution, traffic congestion, crime etc but a lot of place it offers way better life than Canada.

If I were in India, I would have only been working right now to just ensure that I will not get bored. So those coming here from India are usually not escaping something. Usually. Those who are running away from something seldom get the chance.

 

[GandiBaat]

The poor in India go to the gulf and the middle class in India want to go to the west.

Wrong. The poor go no where in India. Middle class go to Gulf and upper middle class or rich folks go to west.

 

[imransyed]

C'mon mate, I'm not the biggest Canada lover but comparing GCC to Canada saying GCC is much better is not even close. They actively seize passports from the South Asians and other developing country passport holders, treating them close to near-slavery. Even the 'professional' class of workers are underpaid in comparison to their Arab or Western counterparts. Sure, you may still be taking home a higher take-home pay but the sheer disrespect of just being paid differently from where you came from and not your skills would be disgusting to me. One's self respect is more important than a few extra shillings

I have worked in the Middle East as professional, let me put my points forward. Hear me out.
You are right, the underpayment is absolutely true. Arabs are paid more, most arabs are not qualified and are paid more due to them being arabs. Does Canada not have this? I as a newcomer in a non it job am making 25-30k less than the white people in the office in the same position. Those white people dont have any bachelors degree, I got one from India. I am more qualified than them in every way possible, except my skin tone and accent.

Seizure of passport? No. Absolutely not. This did happen for the longest time but it absolutely does not have happen anymore. Middle East has come a long way in the past decade, labor laws have been improved drastically and are strictly imposed. Companies get fined and get their access to government services cut if an expat goes to the tribunals. Yes it could be much much better. Canada is good in terms of freedom of movement, absolutely, but I have seen TFWs sleeping under bridges, doing cash jobs, living in ghetto like situation, forced into prostitution, etc.
This happens in middle east too, but to unskilled labors, here the equivalant of unskilled labor is educated TFWs.

Of course self respect is important. This is one reason recently a Canadian left Canada. GCC does not sell a dream of a better future, heatlcare, education, jobs, mustangs and challengers etc etc. It does not market itself. You most certainly do not pay 15-20k cad up front and an equal amount in opportunity cost to go to middle east. You go to middle east for free and your wage starts on day 1, with guaranteed accommodation or compensation for it.

Despite all the issues of Middle East, in 2023 Canada has fudged itself so badly that it has fallen below the real living standard of middle east.
In 2019 when I started my express entry process, I used to scoff at the idea of staying in Middle East and not going to Canada.
In 2023, I hope I had never come here.

And to be clear, I fucking despise the Middle Eastern people. They are racists with massive inflated egos who have gone far too long without a reality check.
But after coming to Canada, seeing stuff like "Indians only, vegetarians only, no cooking, light cooking allowed, no heavy(Indian) cooking allowed" I personally think Canada is not that greatly different.

I hate the middle east, but that country didnt "break my heart" for the lack of better analogy. Canada did.
Having a low paying full time job in middle east, I could have afforded a flat of my own. Here, having an above median pay job, I cant rent anything on a single income. Please dont tell me to move to a different city. I am already trying that. The cost of a tub of butter was 3 cad in 2019. Its about 10cad now. I can hate middle east all I want but at least there I did not have to quit buying butter. Its as simple as that.

 

[GandiBaat]

I don't understand what you both are saying I work with a lot of IT personnel from your country, peers and bosses. They all tell me the country had improved leaps and bounds last 10 years with your current President leading the federal government, he is well respected by every leader overseas, and is doing a lot to make your country developed soon. The old federal government by Gandhi's family was supposedly bad and corrupt but now all that is over.

As other have said, devil lies in details.

Think of China of late 80s or early 90s. There were islands of prosperity like Hong Kong (arguably not china proper back then), shanghai and lot of poverty. It was growing really really fast back then after Deng Xiaoping's pragmatic economic policies. "Allowing some peasants to get rich first" was the adage of the time. And it worked. It still works. Compared to Taiwan China is still not as prosperous for every person but it is day and night when compared to Mao's 60s or 70s.

India is in the midst of its own "Allowing some peasants to get rich first" phase. Those who have it good are prospering. This includes established rich folks and newly minted rich folks and those who work for them. For a vast majority, its just not there. Just like in China of late 80s and early 90s. Modi is somewhat similar to Deng. Somewhat. Actually scratch that. That person would have been PV Narasimha Rao. Its a pitty he did not get to rule for long enough.

Thing is everyone wants the fruit but no one wants to tend the tree for several decades.

 

[GandiBaat]

India is definitely a shithole. But ykw? So is Canada. It really depends on who you ask.

I dunno, the real hell on the earth is USA. One single pregnancy can bankrupt you. No one is safe there. Its a real hell on the earth. And they are proud of it.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I have worked in the Middle East as professional, let me put my points forward. Hear me out.
You are right, the underpayment is absolutely true. Arabs are paid more, most arabs are not qualified and are paid more due to them being arabs. Does Canada not have this? I as a newcomer in a non it job am making 25-30k less than the white people in the office in the same position. Those white people dont have any bachelors degree, I got one from India. I am more qualified than them in every way possible, except my skin tone and accent.

Seizure of passport? No. Absolutely not. This did happen for the longest time but it absolutely does not have happen anymore. Middle East has come a long way in the past decade, labor laws have been improved drastically and are strictly imposed. Companies get fined and get their access to government services cut if an expat goes to the tribunals. Yes it could be much much better. Canada is good in terms of freedom of movement, absolutely, but I have seen TFWs sleeping under bridges, doing cash jobs, living in ghetto like situation, forced into prostitution, etc.
This happens in middle east too, but to unskilled labors, here the equivalant of unskilled labor is educated TFWs.

Of course self respect is important. This is one reason recently a Canadian left Canada. GCC does not sell a dream of a better future, heatlcare, education, jobs, mustangs and challengers etc etc. It does not market itself. You most certainly do not pay 15-20k cad up front and an equal amount in opportunity cost to go to middle east. You go to middle east for free and your wage starts on day 1, with guaranteed accommodation or compensation for it.

Despite all the issues of Middle East, in 2023 Canada has fudged itself so badly that it has fallen below the real living standard of middle east.
In 2019 when I started my express entry process, I used to scoff at the idea of staying in Middle East and not going to Canada.
In 2023, I hope I had never come here.

And to be clear, I fucking despise the Middle Eastern people. They are racists with massive inflated egos who have gone far too long without a reality check.
But after coming to Canada, seeing stuff like "Indians only, vegetarians only, no cooking, light cooking allowed, no heavy(Indian) cooking allowed" I personally think Canada is not that greatly different.

I hate the middle east, but that country didnt "break my heart" for the lack of better analogy. Canada did.
Having a low paying full time job in middle east, I could have afforded a flat of my own. Here, having an above median pay job, I cant rent anything on a single income. Please dont tell me to move to a different city. I am already trying that. The cost of a tub of butter was 3 cad in 2019. Its about 10cad now. I can hate middle east all I want but at least there I did not have to quit buying butter. Its as simple as that.

GCC does not sell a dream of a better future, heatlcare, education, jobs, mustangs and challengers etc etc. It does not market itself.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. These days, information is readily available on youtube, quora, and everywhere else. Your expectations of Canada should not have been that high.

 

[imransyed]

I dunno, the real hell on the earth is USA. One single pregnancy can bankrupt you. No one is safe there. Its a real hell on the earth. And they are proud of it.

LOL
I have never wanted to go to the US. I am a contrarian person and growing up everyone and their nanis wanted to go so I grew up just not wanting to go. I could've probably gotten a GC fairly quickly had I tried coz my place of birth country is eligible for DV lottery.
Other than that, I know US is messed up but I really don't know or care why. Ignorance is bliss lol

 

[primestudio]

That is true. However temporary migration will reduce with time considering the higher cost of living, and lack of jobs and increased competition. Also, Australia is playing catch up with international students by offering Indian students, post study work rights of over 7 years now (if they study in a certain region and take up degrees in skill shortage areas) - that is pretty good, compared to Canada's 3 year work rights. Also, Australia offers much high wages for entry levels. So it is a matter of time, students switch to Australia.

I didn't know you could get 7 years of post study visa in Aus.

 

[imransyed]

GCC does not sell a dream of a better future, heatlcare, education, jobs, mustangs and challengers etc etc. It does not market itself.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. These days, information is readily available on youtube, quora, and everywhere else. Your expectations of Canada should not have been that high.

"These days" is correct. It wasn't the case before was it? Information available was too skewed towards positive side. And anyhow, one would assume with a job that pays above the median wage, a decent lifestyle could be had. A studio apartment, a small used car? I most certainly did not come here to mint money, just the passport, so I am doing good relatively speaking. But if I rent a studio apartment, I will have to cut down on my food intake LOL
Also 2022 is when the cost of living crisis really took off, and I came right around that time. Still not blaming anyone, I did not really invest a significant amount of money coming here so I am all good but I know about 20-30 TFWs who are completely lost and broken, financially and emotionally.

You must have heard that even new refugees are shocked with the costs here yeah? AND that Canadians are leaving? "Should have done you research before coming here" is a straw man's argument when the governement is actively inviting people with open arms.
I have so far just informed people about the real life here. One decided to stay back in middle east in his job, another just landed in the US. Both are TFWs lol

 

[GandiBaat]

I've have heard it mostly from peers and bosses mostly, who keep singing praises all the time, greet each other as "Jay see Ram" or some similar sentence.

Is this for real? I know Hindu nationalists (NRIs) when I see one... they are typically very discreet in their professional life. Very career oriented. Very competitive. Very cliquey. They are very caste and class conscious. JSR chants are more of a thing in temples or in mobs.

@imransyed has this changed a lot lately? I never heard JSR chants in workplaces in all these years outside India.