FSW WORLDWIDE

[imransyed]

Is this for real? I know Hindu nationalists (NRIs) when I see one... they are typically very discreet in their professional life. Very career oriented. Very competitive. Very cliquey. They are very caste and class conscious. JSR chants are more of a thing in temples or in mobs.

@imransyed has this changed a lot lately? I never heard JSR chants in workplaces in all these years outside India.

I was in the neighborhood park. an Indian family put up a 7FT tall hindu bhagva flag in their area where they sat. I pretended like I didnt know and casually asked them about it and they were very happy to tell me all the glorious things. They took it with them when they left. Weirdest shit ever.

 

[GandiBaat]

I was in the neighborhood park. an Indian family put up a hindu bhagva flag in their area. I pretended like I didnt know and casually asked them about it and they were very happy to tell me all the glorious things. They took it with them when they left. Weirdest shit ever.

Thats a change. It did not use to be this way. There were festivals and temples etc for such things but publicly no one used to advertise Hinduism unless asked for -- mostly due to curiosity. Guess a lot has changed.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Wrong. The poor go no where in India. Middle class go to Gulf and upper middle class or rich folks go to west.

I have lived and worked in the Gulf for 20 years. I know what I’m talking about. You need to pay a visit to the UAE. Most, if not all the Indian construction workers come from extremely poor families, who have taken huge loans back home for the purpose of obtaining a flight ticket and visa. For them, living like a slave in Dubai is hundred times better than working in India. They live in the worst possible conditions and send 90% of their monthly income, which is absolute garbage, back to their families. That’s what makes it worth for their families. The converted amount, which may be very small, is a huge difference for them. Please pay a visit to the Gulf and talk to the blue collar workers from India. Ask them about their lives back home. It”ll open your eyes.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I have lived and worked in the Gulf for 20 years. I know what I’m talking about. You need to pay a visit to the UAE. Most, if not all the Indian construction workers come from extremely poor families, who have taken huge loans back home for the purpose of obtaining a flight ticket and visa. For them, living like a slave in Dubai is hundred times better than working in India. They live in the worst possible conditions and send 90% of their monthly income, which is absolute garbage, back to their families. That’s what makes it worth for their families. The converted amount, which may be very small, is a huge difference for them. Please pay a visit to the Gulf and talk to the blue collar workers from India. Ask them about their lives back home. It”ll open your eyes.

Yeah, for some reason, some south asians seem to glorify the GCC countries yet they move to Canada. I don't understand it lol. Move back then if its so good. Then they will say I am staying for passport thereby confirming the racist shitty life in GCC and coming to Canada tail in hand to get their passport. Anyways it is what it is I guess. In their eyes, you will still be seen as a peon. You just managed to circumvent their racist pay scale (after toiling for 3+ years minimum) just to return which is pathetic in itself

 

[cansha]

She is so proud her CAN WP application got approved within a week /2 weeks.

This made me laugh so hard. ROFL.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

I have worked in the Middle East as professional, let me put my points forward. Hear me out.
You are right, the underpayment is absolutely true. Arabs are paid more, most arabs are not qualified and are paid more due to them being arabs. Does Canada not have this? I as a newcomer in a non it job am making 25-30k less than the white people in the office in the same position. Those white people dont have any bachelors degree, I got one from India. I am more qualified than them in every way possible, except my skin tone and accent.

Seizure of passport? No. Absolutely not. This did happen for the longest time but it absolutely does not have happen anymore. Middle East has come a long way in the past decade, labor laws have been improved drastically and are strictly imposed. Companies get fined and get their access to government services cut if an expat goes to the tribunals. Yes it could be much much better. Canada is good in terms of freedom of movement, absolutely, but I have seen TFWs sleeping under bridges, doing cash jobs, living in ghetto like situation, forced into prostitution, etc.
This happens in middle east too, but to unskilled labors, here the equivalant of unskilled labor is educated TFWs.

Of course self respect is important. This is one reason recently a Canadian left Canada. GCC does not sell a dream of a better future, heatlcare, education, jobs, mustangs and challengers etc etc. It does not market itself. You most certainly do not pay 15-20k cad up front and an equal amount in opportunity cost to go to middle east. You go to middle east for free and your wage starts on day 1, with guaranteed accommodation or compensation for it.

Despite all the issues of Middle East, in 2023 Canada has fudged itself so badly that it has fallen below the real living standard of middle east.
In 2019 when I started my express entry process, I used to scoff at the idea of staying in Middle East and not going to Canada.
In 2023, I hope I had never come here.

And to be clear, I fucking despise the Middle Eastern people. They are racists with massive inflated egos who have gone far too long without a reality check.
But after coming to Canada, seeing stuff like "Indians only, vegetarians only, no cooking, light cooking allowed, no heavy(Indian) cooking allowed" I personally think Canada is not that greatly different.

I hate the middle east, but that country didnt "break my heart" for the lack of better analogy. Canada did.
Having a low paying full time job in middle east, I could have afforded a flat of my own. Here, having an above median pay job, I cant rent anything on a single income. Please dont tell me to move to a different city. I am already trying that. The cost of a tub of butter was 3 cad in 2019. Its about 10cad now. I can hate middle east all I want but at least there I did not have to quit buying butter. Its as simple as that.

I grew up in Dubai. I find your post laughable. The Gulf is on the extreme end of the spectrum in terms of human rights, it’s not even funny. Indians and other people from South Asia are routinely discriminated against when it comes to pay and jobs. They’re essentially either slaves or treated like second class in the gulf. In fact, if you speak to a lot of Canadian born people and Americans, a lot of them have a very bad opinion of the Gulf as a whole, primarily due to human rights. They think Dubai was built by slaves, which is partially true. Seizure of passport still happens in Dubai. My passport was seized as a precaution because I was working in the finance department of a company back in Dubai. Non payment of wages is also extremely common in Dubai. Stuff that is illegal in the west, still flies in Dubai. In essence, the UAE is an Islamic country in name only.

The only people having great lives in Dubai are rich businessmen/women, western expats who have managed to secure salary packages which are all inclusive and those expats from South Asia, who have stayed there long enough to secure one of the very limited number of high paying jobs. Everyone else, especially people from South Asia, are living extremely frugal lives while earning peanuts, because there’s an endless supply of labour from South Asia in all professions, causing the labour market to be very saturated.My first job in Canada paid significantly more than my first job in Dubai. A lot of south asians in Dubai are willing to put up with the struggle just to save enough money for a few years and then head back to their home countries. The city and country have always be a transitory destinations. Most people have no plans to settle over there long term.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Yeah, for some reason, some south asians seem to glorify the GCC countries yet they move to Canada. I don't understand it lol. Move back then if its so good. Then they will say I am staying for passport thereby confirming the racist shitty life in GCC and coming to Canada tail in hand to get their passport. Anyways it is what it is I guess. In their eyes, you will still be seen as a peon. You just managed to circumvent their racist pay scale (after toiling for 3+ years minimum) just to return which is pathetic in itself

Lol. I immigrated from the GCC. I’ve listened to some South Asians in Canada who glorify Dubai. The Indians who complain, miss the access to Indian restaurants and the amount of Indians back in Dubai. They want Indian culture in Canada but with the comforts and roads of a western country. For them, the UAE provides that with the additional benefit of not having income taxes. They would turn a blind eye to shit that happens there as long as they can get their access. Most of them are willing to be second class just for that purpose. Believe me when I say this as an Indian, there are a lot of Indians who have no intention of ever being part of their host countries. They’re there just for the quality of life and only want a more developed version of India but are not willing to change India for that, which is why you see ethnic enclaves in places like Brampton and Surrey. Dubai is Brampton times 10 for Indians. It’s a home away from home but with the comforts and infrastructure of a first world city. It’s unfortunate but it is what it is.

 

[Lord_Tony]

Is this for real? I know Hindu nationalists (NRIs) when I see one... they are typically very discreet in their professional life. Very career oriented. Very competitive. Very cliquey. They are very caste and class conscious. JSR chants are more of a thing in temples or in mobs.

@imransyed has this changed a lot lately? I never heard JSR chants in workplaces in all these years outside India.

What you say is true. All these seniors or bosses of mine are extremely talented, smart, have sharp memories, and are quick to grasp a concept or a situation and handle them well. They work their asses out very efficiently and are quick to please their customers and bosses who in turn love them and let them grow. I have heard this during Zoom meetings, I never realized it was a religious chant I thought it was a cultural or country. One of my neighbors who goes for walks with me is an Indo-Persian Zoroastrian from Bombay, I have tried telling JSR to him a couple of times .

 

[Lord_Tony]

Thats a change. It did not use to be this way. There were festivals and temples etc for such things but publicly no one used to advertise Hinduism unless asked for -- mostly due to curiosity. Guess a lot has changed.

The Indian gentleman who I go for walks with told me around Canadian Thanksgiving last year that, it was also an Indian lights festival. We saw many families with sparklers and other fireworks in the streets. I was seeing something like that first time being done at home. Some families seem to have spent 100's may be 1000's of dollars for those massive fireworks. Some of the fireworks were very loud.
I also from my walking buddy that learned a big street fight between bertween100-200 Indians vs Pakistanis occurred in Brampton over some noise created by these fireworks and police dispersed the crowd.

 

[imransyed]

I grew up in Dubai. I find your post laughable. The Gulf is on the extreme end of the spectrum in terms of human rights, it’s not even funny. Indians and other people from South Asia are routinely discriminated against when it comes to pay and jobs. They’re essentially either slaves or treated like second class in the gulf. In fact, if you speak to a lot of Canadian born people and Americans, a lot of them have a very bad opinion of the Gulf as a whole, primarily due to human rights. They think Dubai was built by slaves, which is partially true. Seizure of passport still happens in Dubai. My passport was seized as a precaution because I was working in the finance department of a company back in Dubai. Non payment of wages is also extremely common in Dubai. Stuff that is illegal in the west, still flies in Dubai. In essence, the UAE is an Islamic country in name only.

The only people having great lives in Dubai are rich businessmen/women, western expats who have managed to secure salary packages which are all inclusive and those expats from South Asia, who have stayed there long enough to secure one of the very limited number of high paying jobs. Everyone else, especially people from South Asia, are living extremely frugal lives while earning peanuts, because there’s an endless supply of labour from South Asia in all professions, causing the labour market to be very saturated.My first job in Canada paid significantly more than my first job in Dubai. A lot of south asians in Dubai are willing to put up with the struggle just to save enough money for a few years and then head back to their home countries. The city and country have always be a transitory destinations. Most people have no plans to settle over there long term.

Please re-read my post. I grew in Saudi Arabia, and I openly despise many aspects of middle east. In 2019, my friends and family were against me moving to Canada, but I still decided to come here because of the restrictions you describe.
But here I am not able to afford a roof on my head, which changed my entire perspective of GCC and my priorities. Just because I was able to afford a roof over my head. Simple as that.
I dont care what Canadians or Americans think of GCC tbh. You must know how active the American Big 4, especially McKinsey are in the middle east. The harsh labor laws, harsh expat policies are all developed by these consultants. Saudi's expat dependent tax was a BcG/ Mckinsey idea. Destroyed families. Its all narratives. I dont like americans or have i ever wanted to go to the US.

Other than that, KSA and I think UAE has strong labor laws which are implemented properly when it comes to passport seizure. When you did not get your passport, did you try to reach out to the ministry of labor? How was their response? I helped someone do this in Saudi and the Saudi owner of the company nearly shat his pants when the ministry of labor issued him a notice to return the passport or else. It was really straightforward. And I quite enjoyed the Saudi owner freaking out in disbelief when his govt sided with the expat over him.
Non payment of wages, again, has a limit of 3 months, after which you can transfer your services or leave the country without your employer's approval. And before joining in a company, it is easy to check whether the company has delayed payment of wages or not by asking people.

My uncle works in UAE on a salary of 15k. Does NOT love it, does not hate it either. He knows he is there for the money, build his properties back in India and leave. Unfortunately, I cannot refute the pay and job discrimination. My uncle refused higher pay offers from Saudi and Kuwait because they are genuinely worse than even UAE. And like you said, it is so easy for Indians to go to UAE that employers dont have any real incentive to raise wages (happens rampantly in Canada too btw) But Indinas know this going in. They know they are not going to settle in UAE long term. Truthfully, despite the lower wages, many unskilled/low skilled people's lives were transformed by working in the GCC which would not have happened in India. But we are beyond that. I am not looking for survival like my father was. In canada, it is survival for me and many others I know. Back to where my father started.

My first job here has tripled my last pay in KSA. But expenses have increased even more and now I cannot afford a studio apartment for myself. Does human rights not include a suitable private accommodation, affordable cost of living, accessible healthcare (GCC has this paid by the employer, even the lowest class insurance gets your decent healthcare quickly), some amount of discretionary income, I ask myself.

It is very likely I will be leaving Canada to go back to GCC due to my personal inability to cope with the environment here. Better the devil you know and all that jazz. I will try coming back after 2-3 years, if things look up in Canada, if affordability returns, so will I. If not then meh. I thank my lucky stars I did not pay a single penny to these diploma mills to come here. I like Canada, I hope in a few years all pro-Canada people are right and I am wrong. I really dont like the middle east, its just that right now cost of living here is too high for me and the economic prospects too bleak to do anything.

I rest my case.

 

[GandiBaat]

I have lived and worked in the Gulf for 20 years. I know what I’m talking about. You need to pay a visit to the UAE. Most, if not all the Indian construction workers come from extremely poor families, who have taken huge loans back home for the purpose of obtaining a flight ticket and visa. For them, living like a slave in Dubai is hundred times better than working in India. They live in the worst possible conditions and send 90% of their monthly income, which is absolute garbage, back to their families. That’s what makes it worth for their families. The converted amount, which may be very small, is a huge difference for them. Please pay a visit to the Gulf and talk to the blue collar workers from India. Ask them about their lives back home. It”ll open your eyes.

Then you do not know whats the meaning of being poor in India.

Poors in India cannot afford 2200 calories a day. Yes, thats a thing still in India. And there are way too many of them. Our hunger index is in the range of "serious" for a reason -- ignore the ranking because it is just political BS, the index is still in serious category. Last National Sample Survey in 2017-18, when they used to happen, estimated these folks to be about 77% or so in rural India (https://www.newsclick.in/un-poverty-estimates-india-simply-false-euphoria). I doubt they have any asset to get ANY kind of loan.

I think you are conflating middle class in India with poors. Its very easy to do that in India.

 

[GandiBaat]

One of my neighbors who goes for walks with me is an Indo-Persian Zoroastrian from Bombay, I have tried telling JSR to him a couple of times .

LOL! Indo-Persians (also called Parsee in India) are very left leaning people in India. They are also well off. Some of them are extremely rich. They don't dislike Hinduism but they do not really like overt religious nationalism. They keep their own religion very very private. To the extant if a non-Parsee marries in a Parsee family, they can not enter many religious ceremonies they do. They are the exact polar opposite of right wingers in India. I mean its one community that is literally dying away because they are too left leaning to marry and have kids.

I kid you not, Indian government is trying to save them like they are an endangered species. (https://www.minorityaffairs.gov.in/show_content.php?lang=1&level=2&ls_id=242&lid=61). Its a scheme called Jiyo Parsee (which translates to : "Please Live Parsee folks! I beg you!"). Indian government literally is trying to help them find dates like a wing man of sorts.

It would have been really funny if it were not this .... tragic!

So, yeah, when you said JSR to a Parsi from India. Its funny as hell ! I am sure he understands that you did not know its religious significance.

 

[GandiBaat]

But what if they did? Just YOLO and turn if off lol

Quebec will leave Canada. All the nice old white Canadian will start protesting when they will find that their "hard earned" capital in their houses is going down. Banks will go in meltdown because future valuations of houses will stop growing fast enough meaning many folks might just jump their mortgage...

 

[GandiBaat]

I hate the middle east, but that country didnt "break my heart" for the lack of better analogy. Canada did.

To be very honest, Canada does not really markets itself as a dream destination. Most of this is done by us only.
I think we want from Canada what our predecessors got in 90s and 2000s. Sadly, that is no longer available.

 

[seadrag0n]

Quebec will leave Canada. All the nice old white Canadian will start protesting when they will find that their "hard earned" capital in their houses is going down. Banks will go in meltdown because future valuations of houses will stop growing fast enough meaning many folks might just jump their mortgage...

Atleast rents will go down and maybe wait times at hospitals will reduce which is what people are arguing