FSW WORLDWIDE

[Impatient Dankaroo]

All the points mentioned here are correct but Canada's situation is not unique in terms of housing / rental inflation and healthcare challenges. I have friends in Aus, NZ, Singapore, Germany and I have heard all the same things from them as well. The thing is when people are waiting for PR they only think once I get PR life would be better and sometimes (or may be many times) it is not true.

Examples from Australia

https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/15hfjtg
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/14ifdx0
You can talk to people from UK / Ireland and some think Canada is better. You can see many posts on Reddit of people from there trying to immigrate to Canada.

The fact is that things were getting bad and Covid kind of has messed up things all over the world for middle class. The geopolitical scenario hasn't helped and with all the inflation, interest rate hikes and mass tech lay offs everything is just messed up. May be things are better in GCC countries. But all the countries where one has decent chance of immigration are facing very similar issues.

You are correct. Australia and UK are pretty similar to Canada. You could even argue Canada is better than those 2 in certain categories.

The only countries you could argue would be better than Canada would be US, Switzerland, Netherlands and maaaybe Germany if you can speak the language.

The west is in decline. Gone are the times where one would build substantial wealth unless they're from a select list of professions: think doctor, software, big finance or business owner. The world is more 'equal' now.

 

[Shravan_Kumar]

That's how a federation works. Provinces have a lot of autonomy from the federal government. Quite similar if not more independent than states vs fed govt on US

It’s not about autonomy, it’s about basic logic. The draws happened around the same time and literally all the people invited in the OINP draw were holding an invitation from IRCC EE as well. Basic communication between centre and the provinces will not harm autonomy. Also all they could have done is wait for IRCCs Trade draw and then conducted their draw. A trade draw by IRCC was announced well in advance.

 

[Lord_Tony]

Looks like Ontario tried to sweep literally everyone with Trade occupations. 2855 invitations and score between 250-516. Out of which they will definitely lose 1500 invitations to the EE Trades draw. Either it’s a master stroke as they anticipated the EE draw and hence invited more numbers than usual or it’s plain simple dumb if they actually wanted to invite that many people. Either way, the communication between Ontario and IRCC seems non existent.

I'm seeing this lack of coordination between OINP and IRCC clowns for almost a year now. Most often OINP gives NOI then within 1-2 weeks IRCC tries to steal a part of the same pie with ITAs. If this happens in less than 6 weeks, all good the affected applicants can tell OINP to cancel the application, get full refunds, and go with IRCC. The worst is when this happens 3-4 months later most OINP applicants with IRCC ITA will either lose the 1500 CAD OINP fee, or fools like me who were within regular IRCC OITA cutoffs in the March 7-7-7k invites however waited for months and meanwhile had already acquired useless OINP nominations or were in the last stages of getting various PNPs.

 

[Lord_Tony]

You are correct. Australia and UK are pretty similar to Canada. You could even argue Canada is better than those 2 in certain categories.

The only countries you could argue would be better than Canada would be US, Switzerland, Netherlands and maaaybe Germany if you can speak the language.

The west is in decline. Gone are the times where one would build substantial wealth unless they're from a select list of professions: think doctor, software, big finance or business owner. The world is more 'equal' now.

The USA is heaven for tech jobs but has its own problems long immigration timelines, gun violence etc...
Germany Manufacturing is on the decline too, similar to Japan they struggle with an aging local population that originally did all the high-end manufacturing jobs. Merkel invited a lot of Arab war affected refugees unfortunately that population is not filing for those qualified for high-end manufacturing jobs and have been found not as hard-working/disciplined as the local Saxons or the initial Turkish or Vietnamese immigrants in the 70s-'90s who fuelled the rise of Germany.

 

[Shravan_Kumar]

I'm seeing this lack of coordination between OINP and IRCC clowns for almost a year now. Most often OINP gives NOI then within 1-2 weeks IRCC tries to steal a part of the same pie with ITAs. If this happens in less than 6 weeks, all good the affected applicants can tell OINP to cancel the application, get full refunds, and go with IRCC. The worst is when this happens 3-4 months later most OINP applicants with IRCC ITA will either lose the 1500 CAD OINP fee, or fools like me who were within regular IRCC OITA cutoffs in the March 7-7-7k invites however waited for months and meanwhile had already acquired useless OINP nominations or were in the last stages of getting various PNPs.

Really sad state of affairs. Seems like a ploy to get in the CAD 1500 irrespective.

 

[imransyed]

All the points mentioned here are correct but Canada's situation is not unique in terms of housing / rental inflation and healthcare challenges. I have friends in Aus, NZ, Singapore, Germany and I have heard all the same things from them as well. The thing is when people are waiting for PR they only think once I get PR life would be better and sometimes (or may be many times) it is not true.

You can talk to people from UK / Ireland and some think Canada is better. You can see many posts on Reddit of people from there trying to immigrate to Canada.

The fact is that things were getting bad and Covid kind of has messed up things all over the world for middle class. The geopolitical scenario hasn't helped and with all the inflation, interest rate hikes and mass tech lay offs everything is just messed up. May be things are better in GCC countries. But all the countries where one has decent chance of immigration are facing very similar issues.

Definitely agreed. Australia is Canada (or worse depending on who you ask) with good weather. Things in GCC are way better than the above countries but even there it is pinching the middle class. I think people like us would likely be upper middle class in GCC due to our skills, so things will be very good for us there compared to Canada, but still worse in-terms of precovid GCC vs current. But its a cyclical economy and oil is booming right now so things are in general booming over there.

I have friends in UK, Aus, NZ, Germany who all feel Canada is better. For some coz its cheaper than those countries, for some coz they want the quickest route to permanent migration which Canada still has. This was highlighted by Gandibaat also, people running behind migration and not career growth, etc.

Yesterday i spoke to a friend who moved to the US from India very recently. He had earlier come to Canada and left within a month due to kind of (demeaning to him) jobs he was getting plus he was scarred by the cost and way of living here. Tried to establish himself back in India for a few years, did not work out so he chose to go to the US this time.
He sounded very happy and this is the first migrant I have spoken to in 2023 who is happy with the choice he has made. He also knows that US will and can kick him out at any time, but he has mentally prepared for that.
But boy, was it refreshing and soothing to talk to someone who is happy with the choices they have made!
Although he knows he is happy because his point of reference is Canada LOL, for example his car insurance in Chicago is 60usd compared to 300 in GTA. His rent is usd400 sharing a massive townhouse with just 4 people compared to about the same money but higher number of people living together in a tiny condo, etc etc. Food is so much cheaper that its not even funny.
Americans who complain about their cost of housing/living are still unbeknownst to them still living relatively good.

In 2023 I feel there is no good country for emigration, only for immigration. US is on top, followed by GCC and then some EU countries.

 

[ivicts]

In general its true that there is a trade off for everything. I in general do not like mixing education with immigration but I know many people do. Similarly, I do not believe in delaying marriage for immigration but again, I know many people do. You have one life, education and marriage / relationship are very fundamental to life.

It comes down to priority. Marrying and co-habitation is the top most in my priority list. Next is education. Immigration is something of an afterthought. I have been going after immigration since like forever and had success many times but all of them till my PR last year was a false start because rest of my life did not align and sometime because ... well... bad luck.

It has its own issues however. I have a blissful marriage and my education (till masters) costed my parents zero money due to being done in India. But then I will have to contend with higher cost of housing because I bought my house at the (almost) peak of the bubble. If I had made immigration my priority I would have bought may be one or two more properties in Canada by now. For me, this means I will have to work till 50 or 55 now, instead of retiring at 40-45. Its not the end of the world.

So yes, look at what you can accept without regrets. If I have to do it all over again, I will still prioritize marriage / relationship and education / career over immigration.

Actually for education, I might do a Ph.D.. but there is a trade-off with immigration. If I do a phd in my country of residence, I will probably live here for long term and never immigrate because I might get lazy. If I immigrate, I might not do a Phd since I get older and might get lazy. Of course, the easiest way is to do a Ph.D. in the US or Canada and immigrate, but it is hard to get into a fully funded Ph.D especially if I am from an overseas university. Not really sure what's the best course of actions here..

 

[ivicts]

I'm not sure what your goal is, but if your target in doing school in the US to get into the H1B advanced degree category, then my suggestion is look for a fully online master's program and do it in Canada instead. After 3 years, you'll have a :

(1) a US degree which can be used in the H1B advanced category,
(2) Canadian citizenship which would allow you to work in the US via TN-1 which can be renewed indefinitely (assuming your occupation is under NAFTA), and
(3) you can work while studying, so don't have to go broke, you can even ask for a tax break in Canada for studying in the US online if your school is in their accredited list.

Compared to just studying in the US:
(1) a US degree which can be used in the H1B advanced category,
(2) STEM OPT -> non-renewable, and you run the risk of being deported from the US and you can't just stroll into Canada, now if you're a citizen from the EU, or like Australia, New Zealand or UK, then this might not be that big of a deal, but if you're not, you might want having that Canadian citizenship within arm's reach
(3) Unless you have deep pockets, you're probably be broke or under debt after the grad school is over.

One more thing, unlike Canada, studying in the US has ZERO bearing to a green card application, it has some bearing for an H1B application but it provides no path for residency. So if you study in the US better pray, that (1) someone would be willing to sponsor you and (2) they will be willing to stick it out to the end if you're were born in one of the countries that has a backlog.

Thanks!! This is actually a really good plan and something that I have thought about as well. Would being on-site in the US during grad school improve the networking though? Also, I would only get the TN visa after I get the passport which is roughly in 4 years rather than 3 years right? This is a slowly but sure way, but the drawback of this is that it is quite a roundabout way and I am getting older and having the thought of getting a Phd as well. But, I guess a dual US and Canada citizenship might be worth it later instead of only US citizenship? Sometimes I also want to go to a top university for a master's in the US because a master's is the easiest way to get into the top brand university compared to undergraduate and Ph.D.

On the other hand, seems like Canada PR is getting harder and harder to get day by day and I spent a lot of time to increase my CRS score back then (sunk cost), I am not sure if I will just go to the US for a master's and chase GC like what @GandiBaat suggested without using it to get the citizenship..

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Definitely agreed. Australia is Canada (or worse depending on who you ask) with good weather. Things in GCC are way better than the above countries but even there it is pinching the middle class. I think people like us would likely be upper middle class in GCC due to our skills, so things will be very good for us there compared to Canada, but still worse in-terms of precovid GCC vs current. But its a cyclical economy and oil is booming right now so things are in general booming over there.

I have friends in UK, Aus, NZ, Germany who all feel Canada is better. For some coz its cheaper than those countries, for some coz they want the quickest route to permanent migration which Canada still has. This was highlighted by Gandibaat also, people running behind migration and not career growth, etc.

Yesterday i spoke to a friend who moved to the US from India very recently. He had earlier come to Canada and left within a month due to kind of (demeaning to him) jobs he was getting plus he was scarred by the cost and way of living here. Tried to establish himself back in India for a few years, did not work out so he chose to go to the US this time.
He sounded very happy and this is the first migrant I have spoken to in 2023 who is happy with the choice he has made. He also knows that US will and can kick him out at any time, but he has mentally prepared for that.
But boy, was it refreshing and soothing to talk to someone who is happy with the choices they have made!
Although he knows he is happy because his point of reference is Canada LOL, for example his car insurance in Chicago is 60usd compared to 300 in GTA. His rent is usd400 sharing a massive townhouse with just 4 people compared to about the same money but higher number of people living together in a tiny condo, etc etc. Food is so much cheaper that its not even funny.
Americans who complain about their cost of housing/living are still unbeknownst to them still living relatively good.

In 2023 I feel there is no good country for emigration, only for immigration. US is on top, followed by GCC and then some EU countries.

Well said. The bonus of canada is that larges mncs work in conjunction with us counterparts due to time zone language and geography. Most work in a NA model where US and Canada are bunched up together and gives you a chance to network with US team. Work a few years and then get the L1 and transfer. Alternatively, get the USD salary and live in Canada. Then, life can be comfortable

 

[Maria Odette]

True. This is all over the world but the Federal Government of Canada, unlike other governments, is actively trying to make the situation worse by boosting the amount of temporary migrants. There are no limits to the amount of international students who can arrive in Canada. That is the most idiotic decision any government can make. Since Canadian universities and colleges, unlike Australian universities, have caps on the amount of international enrolments (imagine if they didn’t have this), some bad actors in this country, have opened up private strip mall colleges for the sole purpose of trafficking international students into the country. At one point in time, Australia and the UK were known for having huge numbers of fake students attending private diploma mills and engaging in low wage work. The UK started to crack down on them and then the practice ended. As far as I know, Australia still allows it but Canada, which did not have this issue until recently, has doubled down on promoting this. One can only imagine what the reasoning behind their stupid decision is? The negative consequences for this are far greater than any benefits. The kids attending these private diploma mills belong to the lowest wage groups and drive down productivity instead of increasing it. On top of that, they put an enormous strain on public services. Like I said before, if Canada solely focused on permanent migration, a lot of affordability issues could be solved. It’s the sudden implosion of international students and temporary workers that has exacerbated the issues. The longer the government ignores the issue of diploma mills and international students, the greater the general public will turn on all immigrants. The Liberals are tanking in polls. They’re most likely out by the next election.

And now this stupid government not only keeps increasing the number of students they bring in every year but also keeps extending their PGWPs (which was designed by the conservatives as a one-time, non-renewable deal), so we only have people coming in but few leaving the country. These liberals are a disgrace.

 

[Arod]

The only countries you could argue would be better than Canada would be US, Switzerland, Netherlands and maaaybe Germany if you can speak the language.

Switzerland and perhaps the Netherlands, but the US?

Have you lived there during the last 5 or 10 years? Certain areas are worse than Third World countries, shootings, gangs, illegals and extreme division, which will only get worse if Trump is convicted in one of his many indictments.

Of course, the ultra rich are doing great, but not everyone is rich.

It's hard to consider a country where half the population believes in populists like Trump and conspiracy sites like Qanon a good place to live.

There is a reason why even immigrants from poor countries leave after a few years.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

And now this stupid government not only keeps increasing the number of students they bring in every year but also keeps extending their PGWPs (which was designed by the conservatives as a one-time, non-renewable deal), so we only have people coming in but few leaving the country. These liberals are a disgrace.

I think it’s only a matter of time until all of them are shown the finger by the Federal government. Only 30% of international students transition into permanent residency. The ones from India are the ones who would never go back because their sole purpose for obtaining education is to settle down. Unless they qualify for the category based draws or have extremely competent CRS scores, they’re done. I wonder what they’re going to do once their visa runs out. Most probably, some of them would stay as undocumented workers.

 

[GandiBaat]

Food is so much cheaper that its not even funny.

I do not think that is right.

I did a head on comparison of US (Seattle) and Canada (Victoria). Numbers are not very different. Prices are from IGA and Save on food. I tried keeping the brand names similar and sub-kind similar. Left side is USD in Seattle, right is in Canada with prices in CDN.

Mushrooms : 7.99USD : 9.00 CDN
Tofu : 4.49; 3.99
Tomato (150): 0.82 : 0.82
Cauliflower: 3.99 : 3.49
White onions 1 KG : 7.7 : 5.5
Green Beans(450): 2.47 : 4.5
Spinach : 2.59 : 2.99
Skimmed Milk 4L: 6.59 : 5.79
Whole milk 4L : 7.60 : 6.15
Chicken Breast : 4.84 : 11.37
Whole Chicken 1.5KG : 15.48 : 13.11
Large Eggs (12) : 6.29 : 7.49
Rice Basmati (907 Grams) : 6.99 : 4.95
Whole Wheat (Aashirwad) 9100 grams : 40.0 :20.0

Note : These are food items and groceries. I am not comparing a diner / restaurant cost. That might be higher because labour is expensive in Canada.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I think it’s only a matter of time until all of them are shown the finger by the Federal government. Only 30% of international students transition into permanent residency. The ones from India are the ones who would never go back because their sole purpose for obtaining education is to settle down. Unless they qualify for the category based draws or have extremely competent CRS scores, they’re done. I wonder what they’re going to do once their visa runs out. Most probably, some of them would stay as undocumented workers.

Due to the whole TR to PR draw, everyone has expectation of getting PR. They will likely protest like the losers they are demanding to get a pathway to PR

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Due to the whole TR to PR draw, everyone has expectation of getting PR. They will likely protest like the losers they are demanding to get a pathway to PR

That was one of the most idiotic things done by the Canadian government and it made no sense at that time. It gave a false sense of hope to thousands of low wage and low skilled workers. It was only a one time thing and no matter how much the students protest, nothing is ever going to happen. They cannot vote so their voice is meaningless in the grander scheme of things. There were a lot of protests by undocumented workers recently and nothing happened. Politicians generally don’t care about non nationals who cannot vote. I think some international students from India have taken the tolerance and politeness of Canada for granted and have this misconception that it is some sort of subservient state which makes decisions based on which interest group shouts the loudest. In reality, education is a business here and the government wants to milk international students as much as possible. After their education is done, they only want the ones who work in high wage sectors to stick around permanently cause in reality, majority of the tax revenues come from only 20% of the population, meaning from those who are making the median wage and above. They want the rest to go back after they’ve been exploited. The international students from India who attend the private diploma mills, have been scammed by education agents back in India and not the Canadian government. Yet, for some reason, despite knowing all of this, they arrive in droves and prefer to live in garbage conditions and be exploited rather than staying in India.