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GandiBaat

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Your and mine experiences are so so different. From work to my neighborhood - everything has been very lovely so far. Hope Canada gives you better experiences. Your workplace sounds like a terrible one for sure. I guess, I'm very cutthroat at work, so people don't try to pull anything with me.
My work place... well the cut-throat is workplace or rather company itself. Very few survive past 2 years. I am now 8 years and counting. If HR systems is to be believed then I am having tenure of more than 98% of employee. Just surviving gives a massive payout. I like it that way.
 
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iSaidGoodDay

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2023
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Kaneda
Well good old bribing always works. I typically wish my neighbours and exchange gifts on appropriate occassions. I am also allowing my neighbour to park his RV in my uncovered parking (which I am not going to use anyways, I have another covered parking). The building inspector dude told me that once storm drains should be cleaned (like once in 10 years or so), so I got them cleaned.

Total expense on me right now is much less than 1000 dollars. For retirees (that is all of my neighbours), it seems to be a very nice gesture. I have never heard of them complaining about my boy not sleeping and moving around during night. I still need to get some more rugs for muffling the sound but thats a project for another day.

Another simple thing is to keep your yard clean and nice. It keeps your house value up and it keeps their real estate values up.
100%! Cleaning snow , exchanging food items(very cautiously because of allergies), volunteering in neighborhood events, etc are such an easy way to be a part of Canadian social life. Canadians are simply afraid of the unknown and live a very defensive lifestyle(unlike in India, where striking conversations with strangers was so easy). Once they know you, it gets so easy!
 

Windsor37

Hero Member
Jul 9, 2020
524
465
This is incomplete understanding. This applies ONLY in extension scenario. A person may very well be eligible for more than one status. For instance someone
a. Arrives on a closed Work Permit P1.

b. Marries a Canadian or PR within Canada after arrival and obtains an open work permit P2 based on Spouse immigration application.
OR
b. Marries a Study Permit holder in Canada who arrived before them and obtains an open work permit P2 based on Spouse Open Work Permit.
OR
b. Obtains a LMIA based job offer with in Canada and obtains another closed work permit P2 based on that job.
OR
b. Obtains a PNP based work permit support letter and obtains another closed work permit P2 based on that.
PR
b. Is promoted by their employer and their job title / NOC changes signifiantly that they need a new work permit. P2 will reflect their new NOC and possibly a new expiry date. (I know this happened for me). P1 will still remains valid.

In any of these cases he will have two work permit P1 and P2 with two indepedent expiry dates and neither will cancel or invalidate other. Infact it is not even guarenteed that expiry date of P2 will always be after P1. Such a person can stay in Canada till either of their work permit remain valid.

As such the condition on these work permits will be contradictory as P1 will say "Must Leave Canada by XYZ date" while P2 will say "Must Leave Canada by PQR date". One of the dates will come before other. Since there is no extension involved clause 5 will not apply. And this means, there is a misrepresentation in conditions. Since a new work permit is issued independently, older work permit does not get invalidated nor its .
Technically speaking it does, if someone in their closed work permit P1, gets an open work permit P2, and changes employer afterwards (because I can't see the reason why would they even apply for a OWP if they won't change employers anyway), the P1 work permit gets invalidated at that point because it no longer fulfills the original purpose, and you can't simply fall back to that in the event the P2 gets invalidated because your student spouse graduated and decided not to apply for, or is ineligible for PGWP. If you want to stay, then you need to move to another status such as another closed work permit.

But I digress, the original argument I was defending was that, these student applicants should have done the due diligence of what are they getting themselves into. If they entered Canada, was issued a student permit with a leave by XYZ date, and then did NOT APPLY for any other status, nor seek any legal options to extend their stay or simply put there aren't any eligible options available to them when they are looking for it, then they should leave Canada by XYZ no questions asked, and they shouldn't expect an auto-extend study permit, or auto-transition to work permit. The burden of understanding Canada's law falls upon the immigrant or a lawyer working for them, and not by the Canadian government.

While you make a point that the Canada's wording on VISAs and permits could be improved (I disagree on that, but let's agree to disagree at this point), these students, should they had an intent to stay longer in Canada, should have researched on what are the available opportunities and think their journey through before it even started; instead of moping around and blaming the Canadian government of letting so many of them in (particularly so many of them in the same degree).

Thankfully, functioning courts are there to address exactly these kind of situations. They will overturn such decisions and policies. It has happened in the past. They include "Certified Questions" in such cases for higher courts to comment and at times courts have found government policies and laws to be incorrect or interpreted incorrectly. Lawyers have a full time job to research such things.
But the courts can't change the current policy of VISA-hopping they can only decide if it's legal or not, it can't change the number of people that the Federal Government decides to let in, it can't mandate public universities to lower tuition fees for international students for equality. The courts can't even pick who gets a chance to get in like which skillsets should be prioritized, or which degrees should get more student VISAs, or which companies should get an approved LMIAs. That duty befalls on the policy-makers in Ottawa, and the provinces, and for that to change, you need the government to change, and only voting can change that - something that temporary residents can't do.
 

GandiBaat

VIP Member
Dec 23, 2014
3,704
2,990
NOC Code......
2173
App. Filed.......
26th September 2021
Doc's Request.
Old Medical
Nomination.....
None
AOR Received.
26th September 2021
IELTS Request
Sent with application
File Transfer...
11-01-2022
Med's Request
Not Applicable, Old Meds
Med's Done....
Old Medical
Interview........
Not Applicable
Passport Req..
22-02-2022
VISA ISSUED...
22-02-2022
LANDED..........
24-02-2022
because I can't see the reason why would they even apply for a OWP if they won't change employers anyway
Many reasons. Having an OWP makes things faster in moving inside the company. Or someone is or about to be laid off or fired and they want to ensure that they have a job before that eventuality hits them. Or they got promoted and their job title, NOC or duties changed. Or they want to live else where in canada and are on a tight deadline.

Many not so great employers do not give you the hike because they believe till you do not get a PR you have no recourse. Having an OWP acts as a passive agressive move. You update your HR that now you have an OWP, they will read it as a precursor of you leaving the company. At the very least, it chills the managers in small companies, makes them less aggressive. The moment a shitty person knows that other party has a recourse their tone and tenor changes.

Technically speaking it does, if someone in their closed work permit P1, gets an open work permit P2, and changes employer afterwards (because I can't see the reason why would they even apply for a OWP if they won't change employers anyway), the P1 work permit gets invalidated at that point because it no longer fulfills the original purpose, and you can't simply fall back to that in the event the P2 gets invalidated because your student spouse graduated and decided not to apply for, or is ineligible for PGWP. If you want to stay, then you need to move to another status such as another closed work permit.
Actually P1 never gets invalidated. Till it expires. This is one of the curious property of WPs. Canada government does not have any means to invalidate a specific WP that has validity left. They can only deport you and then it and other statuses ceases. That or they can disallow you to enter Canada. This is why when people are laid off while being on closed work permit, they are often told to NOT leave the country. Because even though they have authorization to remain in Canada, they can be denied re-entry if CBSA finds that you do not have a job. When one loses their job, they are often told to NOT attempt a flagpole because it can happen that they are denied and also denied from re-entering canada.

How do I know? I worked in two different offices of my company in two different cities. I once held closed work permit for Vancouver and later a permit for Victoria. Both were valid and allowed me to work in both cities. I had asked my lawyer specifically about it.

What else it means? It means, say you quit your job while on a closed work permit (which had substential validity left), went to work for another employer on an open work permit with substentially lower validity and then switched back to your previous employer (may be they decided to give you a large hike after all), you can work till your closed work permit's valdity runs out (Assuming P1 had more validity). Till either P1 and P2 have validity, you can stay in canada.

But I digress, the original argument I was defending was that, these student applicants should have done the due diligence of what are they getting themselves into. If they entered Canada, was issued a student permit with a leave by XYZ date, and then did NOT APPLY for any other status, nor seek any legal options to extend their stay or simply put there aren't any eligible options available to them when they are looking for it, then they should leave Canada by XYZ no questions asked, and they shouldn't expect an auto-extend study permit, or auto-transition to work permit. The burden of understanding Canada's law falls upon the immigrant or a lawyer working for them, and not by the Canadian government.
My original point was, Canadian government misrepresents facts on its official permits. And that is not some simple incidental fact, thats a condition on the permit. Its legally binding. You can not research away a lie. When Canadian government is lying and misrepresenting, it is not fair to expect students to always be on the top of their legal game.

While you make a point that the Canada's wording on VISAs and permits could be improved (I disagree on that, but let's agree to disagree at this point), these students, should they had an intent to stay longer in Canada, should have researched on what are the available opportunities and think their journey through before it even started; instead of moping around and blaming the Canadian government of letting so many of them in (particularly so many of them in the same degree).
When it comes to question of legal documents, words are not improved. They are correct or there are consequences. If I hypothetically misrepresent my marriage on my WP (say, for example), there are consequences. This is why I find it very distasteful for Canadian government to misrepresent reality. Which is why I am not really keen on holding students to be really wrong in messing up their immigration.

But the courts can't change the current policy of VISA-hopping they can only decide if it's legal or not, it can't change the number of people that the Federal Government decides to let in, it can't mandate public universities to lower tuition fees for international students for equality. The courts can't even pick who gets a chance to get in like which skillsets should be prioritized, or which degrees should get more student VISAs, or which companies should get an approved LMIAs. That duty befalls on the policy-makers in Ottawa, and the provinces, and for that to change, you need the government to change, and only voting can change that - something that temporary residents can't do.
Actually courts can hold a policy to be in contempt of "Canadian Values" or "Charter" or "principles of natural justice". It has happened in past. And when that happens, government is forced to change or amend the policy. The JR process is very expensive however. At times, Canadian courts specifically answer questions about laws by a process called certified questions. Some of these are of general importance and do over turn regulations policies etc or provide relief to the other party.
 

iSaidGoodDay

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2023
4,469
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Kaneda
You worry too much. These strikes and the critique of it is barely noticeable to an average Canadian. Everyone's busy at work, home, children, etc - that's the life here. Focus on coming here, working and building something that's bigger than you and these nuances will vanish. Remember, this is either a stage to become a whiner or winner - I know it sounds like toxic positivity, but that's far far better than falling for the whiner's trap.

> The same mentality they have in India. "As long as I get mine, I don't care about anything or anyone else".
It is human nature. Canadians RE investors do the same to those who can't afford a house. In American they do the same when it comes to healthcare.
 

Lord_Tony

Hero Member
Mar 7, 2023
872
454
Toronto
Category........
PNP
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
25-03-2023
AOR Received.
07-05-2023
Med's Done....
15-05-2023
VISA ISSUED...
15-12-2023
Many reasons. Having an OWP makes things faster in moving inside the company. Or someone is or about to be laid off or fired and they want to ensure that they have a job before that eventuality hits them. Or they got promoted and their job title, NOC or duties changed. Or they want to live else where in canada and are on a tight deadline.
Many not so great employers do not give you the hike because they believe till you do not get a PR you have no recourse. Having an OWP acts as a passive agressive move. You update your HR that now you have an OWP, they will read it as a precursor of you leaving the company. At the very least, it chills the managers in small companies, makes them less aggressive. The moment a shitty person knows that other party has a recourse their tone and tenor changes.
I have a question.

Are the current employer or their attorneys informed by IRCC or CBSA when the employee applies for a PR or an OWP or another employer has applied for another CWP etc...

Why do I ask this, I see some of these same passive-aggressive moves from some of my peers or reports towards their subordinates. Most of these aggressors are immigrants, the majority from India. They aim to keep the junior employee on a short lease i.e. CWP. I have seen them plot to send certain targeted employees back offshore, I learned in India the employee needs to tell the employer 90 days in advance or pay the equivalent salary, these leads use that as a weapon in addition to the CWP.

An idiot was as clueless as to send an email to the BP HR copying me as his RM. He was asking that his subordinate has resigned giving a 15-day notice, and doesn't have a Canadian PR. if the company legally informs her to go back to India and wait for 90 days thus preventing short-term staffing problems etc.

I hate what these leads do but they claim this is a good way of politically handling the staffing problems by making employees stick longer.

What leaves me disgusted is the affected employees are often young and talented ones. By this behavior of the leads, the talented employees get frustrated with the company. Our executive/senior management has never given any such mandates, at least officially and not to me.
Of course, any any large organization there are layers within layers and often those ways of working are not clean nor have a real reporting hierarchy, so I might be excluded from some of these.

I have a couple of times been educated by big boys/girls when I try to staff the best candidate suitable or looking for the right experience etc. The feedback I got was I don't understand the pyramid needed to profitably deliver, the company needs a mix of folks at various levels to get the good profitability, etc. Then some of their trusted lieutenants are made the do the dirty work of assigning not fit junior folks. I'm not sure if the above passive-aggressive behavior is another such secret sauce I don't understand.

I've always wondered how these shrewd leads learn that the employee is trying to leave, is it from behavioral patterns or the Canadian government agencies are secretly informing them of the OWP or PRs?
 
Last edited:

primestudio

Star Member
Jul 7, 2018
97
37
Many reasons. Having an OWP makes things faster in moving inside the company. Or someone is or about to be laid off or fired and they want to ensure that they have a job before that eventuality hits them. Or they got promoted and their job title, NOC or duties changed. Or they want to live else where in canada and are on a tight deadline.

Many not so great employers do not give you the hike because they believe till you do not get a PR you have no recourse. Having an OWP acts as a passive agressive move. You update your HR that now you have an OWP, they will read it as a precursor of you leaving the company. At the very least, it chills the managers in small companies, makes them less aggressive. The moment a shitty person knows that other party has a recourse their tone and tenor changes.
Man you worked in such toxic companies. I worked in one where the manager was also Indian and employed such scammy passive aggresive tactics - not sure why he did that but I simply moved to another company given my background and my education pedigree making it easy to move around in Canada (this was before 2021). I barely lasted a year.
 

primestudio

Star Member
Jul 7, 2018
97
37
I have a question.

Are the current employer or their attorneys informed by IRCC or CBSA when the employee applies for a PR or an OWP or another employer has applied for another CWP etc...
I don't think so. My friend who worked in a big bank had to submit prove of work authorization or risk getting terminated from his SDE position. Luckily, he got invited in the STEM draw last december as his permit was expiring within 2 months.

After the invite, he submitted the PR application and also the application for BOWP and gave the receipt of the latter to the HR.
 
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Windsor37

Hero Member
Jul 9, 2020
524
465
Many reasons. Having an OWP makes things faster in moving inside the company. Or someone is or about to be laid off or fired and they want to ensure that they have a job before that eventuality hits them. Or they got promoted and their job title, NOC or duties changed. Or they want to live else where in canada and are on a tight deadline.

Many not so great employers do not give you the hike because they believe till you do not get a PR you have no recourse. Having an OWP acts as a passive agressive move. You update your HR that now you have an OWP, they will read it as a precursor of you leaving the company. At the very least, it chills the managers in small companies, makes them less aggressive. The moment a shitty person knows that other party has a recourse their tone and tenor changes.


Actually P1 never gets invalidated. Till it expires. This is one of the curious property of WPs. Canada government does not have any means to invalidate a specific WP that has validity left. They can only deport you and then it and other statuses ceases. That or they can disallow you to enter Canada. This is why when people are laid off while being on closed work permit, they are often told to NOT leave the country. Because even though they have authorization to remain in Canada, they can be denied re-entry if CBSA finds that you do not have a job. When one loses their job, they are often told to NOT attempt a flagpole because it can happen that they are denied and also denied from re-entering canada.

How do I know? I worked in two different offices of my company in two different cities. I once held closed work permit for Vancouver and later a permit for Victoria. Both were valid and allowed me to work in both cities. I had asked my lawyer specifically about it.

What else it means? It means, say you quit your job while on a closed work permit (which had substential validity left), went to work for another employer on an open work permit with substentially lower validity and then switched back to your previous employer (may be they decided to give you a large hike after all), you can work till your closed work permit's valdity runs out (Assuming P1 had more validity). Till either P1 and P2 have validity, you can stay in canada.

My original point was, Canadian government misrepresents facts on its official permits. And that is not some simple incidental fact, thats a condition on the permit. Its legally binding. You can not research away a lie. When Canadian government is lying and misrepresenting, it is not fair to expect students to always be on the top of their legal game.

When it comes to question of legal documents, words are not improved. They are correct or there are consequences. If I hypothetically misrepresent my marriage on my WP (say, for example), there are consequences. This is why I find it very distasteful for Canadian government to misrepresent reality. Which is why I am not really keen on holding students to be really wrong in messing up their immigration.
This is where we disagree, I believe students should take the burden of navigating through the Canadian legal system even though there is ambiguity or even intentional / unintentional misinformation. They are moving to a new country, they should at the very least get legal counsel on the options available to them. If they decide not to or just assumed they understood the law enough, then it's risk taking, and this means being prepared of the consequences merited or not. Even locals get lawyers to help them interpret legal troubles, why won't immigrants do the same?

Actually courts can hold a policy to be in contempt of "Canadian Values" or "Charter" or "principles of natural justice". It has happened in past. And when that happens, government is forced to change or amend the policy. The JR process is very expensive however. At times, Canadian courts specifically answer questions about laws by a process called certified questions. Some of these are of general importance and do over turn regulations policies etc or provide relief to the other party.
But who defines the meaning of "Canadian Values", "Charter" or "Principal of Natural Justice"? It's the legislative body, if there is a strong support for a certain policy and the courts are keeping getting in the way because of XYZ, the legislative body has the power to remove XYZ. Granted they need a really strong support to overturn it but still. Furthermore, courts only get involved if there are people complaining, and they have the financial and social capacity to actually take the policy to court; and there's no guarantee that the legislative body won't just rewrite the policy to circumvent the portion(s) that the courts overturned, to keep most of it, at least intact.
 

santosh.dh

Star Member
May 18, 2023
178
91
You worry too much. These strikes and the critique of it is barely noticeable to an average Canadian. Everyone's busy at work, home, children, etc - that's the life here. Focus on coming here, working and building something that's bigger than you and these nuances will vanish. Remember, this is either a stage to become a whiner or winner - I know it sounds like toxic positivity, but that's far far better than falling for the whiner's trap.

> The same mentality they have in India. "As long as I get mine, I don't care about anything or anyone else".
It is human nature. Canadians RE investors do the same to those who can't afford a house. In American they do the same when it comes to healthcare.
It's not unreasonable though to worry about things that are happening in Canada with Indian people, especially international students. It may not be affecting Express Entry immigrants for now but if these things escalate then we're not too far away from the chopping block. Although for now, it seems that most of this extreme hatred is confined to places like X, etc. Hopefully Canadian government will now improve it's study permit system.
 

iSaidGoodDay

VIP Member
Feb 3, 2023
4,469
2,384
Kaneda
It's not unreasonable though to worry about things that are happening in Canada with Indian people, especially international students. It may not be affecting Express Entry immigrants for now but if these things escalate then we're not too far away from the chopping block. Although for now, it seems that most of this extreme hatred is confined to places like X, etc. Hopefully Canadian government will now improve it's study permit system.
What do you plan to do with to fix it though? If there's no way for us to fix or influence these things, it'll be unreasonable to worry about it.
 
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GandiBaat

VIP Member
Dec 23, 2014
3,704
2,990
NOC Code......
2173
App. Filed.......
26th September 2021
Doc's Request.
Old Medical
Nomination.....
None
AOR Received.
26th September 2021
IELTS Request
Sent with application
File Transfer...
11-01-2022
Med's Request
Not Applicable, Old Meds
Med's Done....
Old Medical
Interview........
Not Applicable
Passport Req..
22-02-2022
VISA ISSUED...
22-02-2022
LANDED..........
24-02-2022
I have a question.

Are the current employer or their attorneys informed by IRCC or CBSA when the employee applies for a PR or an OWP or another employer has applied for another CWP etc...
No, to the best of my knowledge. Actually, for OWP many people just do Flagpolling so entire point of informing becomes moot.

Why do I ask this, I see some of these same passive-aggressive moves from some of my peers or reports towards their subordinates. Most of these aggressors are immigrants, the majority from India. They aim to keep the junior employee on a short lease i.e. CWP. I have seen them plot to send certain targeted employees back offshore, I learned in India the employee needs to tell the employer 90 days in advance or pay the equivalent salary, these leads use that as a weapon in addition to the CWP.

An idiot was as clueless as to send an email to the BP HR copying me as his RM. He was asking that his subordinate has resigned giving a 15-day notice, and doesn't have a Canadian PR. if the company legally informs her to go back to India and wait for 90 days thus preventing short-term staffing problems etc.
When a guy on CWP loses his or her or their job, their employer need to inform IRCC AFAIK. That being said, IRCC can not force them to leave till they have validity on their WP.

About India, what you are refering to is called as "notice period". And yeah you need to inform your employer about it so as to not burn the bridges. Sometimes your prospective employer can buy out their notice period. Mine told me that they can, I denied. I wanted to keep my relationship with my past employer nice and warm. My CTO from past employer still is in touch with me.

I doubt they need to tell their (soon to be?) former employee to leave Canada. Its respeonsibility of individual. They do need to tell IRCC.


I hate what these leads do but they claim this is a good way of politically handling the staffing problems by making employees stick longer.

What leaves me disgusted is the affected employees are often young and talented ones. By this behavior of the leads, the talented employees get frustrated with the company. Our executive/senior management has never given any such mandates, at least officially and not to me.
Of course, any any large organization there are layers within layers and often those ways of working are not clean nor have a real reporting hierarchy, so I might be excluded from some of these.

I have a couple of times been educated by big boys/girls when I try to staff the best candidate suitable or looking for the right experience etc. The feedback I got was I don't understand the pyramid needed to profitably deliver, the company needs a mix of folks at various levels to get the good profitability, etc. Then some of their trusted lieutenants are made the do the dirty work of assigning not fit junior folks. I'm not sure if the above passive-aggressive behavior is another such secret sauce I don't understand.

I've always wondered how these shrewd leads learn that the employee is trying to leave, is it from behavioral patterns or the Canadian government agencies are secretly informing them of the OWP or PRs?
My employer famously does exact opposite and is simply too eager to fire and the entire landscape is full of so many dead teams and projects that it is not even funny. You took dependency upon someone's work. Two months into the project the guy is gone. Two more weeks, they have deprecated that work because it was "not scalable". Too much promotion driven architecture, too much churn. Nothing is ever stable. Wall St loves them however. We develop strategies to avoid falling in such predicament. Either we roll out same solutions over and over again or we look at who is blessing a solution. If it is a Principal Engineer or above with a decent tenure, its safer to take that dependency.

Here is another funny thing. The top performers among us are most eager to leave. Its not that they are not being paid enough -- they are -- or they dislike the work, its more because it gets frustrating to roll out everything by yourself at times.

Only very few strategic solutions that are thought up from top to down are immune to this churn.

In past I have worked in a financial organization in which people spend their entire life. My friend and I used to joke about it as a retirement home. That being said, tribal knowledge in that company was never lost. It was a part of succession and that succession used to take months.

My current employers stocks grew phenomenally in the years I have spent here. My last employers stocks are steady. My current employer does not care about profitability as much as valuation (atleast till very recently). My last employer was very profitability oriented.

The point I am making is, both kinds of setups have their own pros and cons and possibly their place under the sun.
 

GandiBaat

VIP Member
Dec 23, 2014
3,704
2,990
NOC Code......
2173
App. Filed.......
26th September 2021
Doc's Request.
Old Medical
Nomination.....
None
AOR Received.
26th September 2021
IELTS Request
Sent with application
File Transfer...
11-01-2022
Med's Request
Not Applicable, Old Meds
Med's Done....
Old Medical
Interview........
Not Applicable
Passport Req..
22-02-2022
VISA ISSUED...
22-02-2022
LANDED..........
24-02-2022
Man you worked in such toxic companies. I worked in one where the manager was also Indian and employed such scammy passive aggresive tactics - not sure why he did that but I simply moved to another company given my background and my education pedigree making it easy to move around in Canada (this was before 2021). I barely lasted a year.
Actually, the passive aggressive thing was based on someone else experience who was almost having a mental break down. I helped him get a BOWP and he used it successfully to get his manager calm down and stop breathing down his neck. He was worried that he will be kicked out during processing of his PR and had a bit of financial crunch. As expected, OWP helped him. Posturing is a thing in jobs I guess....

My own employer or work place is very bruising surely but its not toxic. They do not play underhanded tactics, they are just a bit too eager to fire, irrespective of anything. You have to try hard to remain with them for 4 years -- which is when you get the maximum benefit out of the job. Its a different kind of beast however and I will not be with them for very long. Its place in my career was perhaps to help me get well settled in Canada without depending upon my family and assets in India. That part it has done well.
 

Lord_Tony

Hero Member
Mar 7, 2023
872
454
Toronto
Category........
PNP
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
25-03-2023
AOR Received.
07-05-2023
Med's Done....
15-05-2023
VISA ISSUED...
15-12-2023
My employer famously does exact opposite and is simply too eager to fire and the entire landscape is full of so many dead teams and projects that it is not even funny. You took dependency upon someone's work. Two months into the project the guy is gone. Two more weeks, they have deprecated that work because it was "not scalable". Too much promotion driven architecture, too much churn. Nothing is ever stable. Wall St loves them however. We develop strategies to avoid falling in such predicament. Either we roll out same solutions over and over again or we look at who is blessing a solution. If it is a Principal Engineer or above with a decent tenure, its safer to take that dependency.

Here is another funny thing. The top performers among us are most eager to leave. Its not that they are not being paid enough -- they are -- or they dislike the work, its more because it gets frustrating to roll out everything by yourself at times.

Only very few strategic solutions that are thought up from top to down are immune to this churn.

In past I have worked in a financial organization in which people spend their entire life. My friend and I used to joke about it as a retirement home. That being said, tribal knowledge in that company was never lost. It was a part of succession and that succession used to take months.

My current employers stocks grew phenomenally in the years I have spent here. My last employers stocks are steady. My current employer does not care about profitability as much as valuation (atleast till very recently). My last employer was very profitability oriented.

The point I am making is, both kinds of setups have their own pros and cons and possibly their place under the sun.
Ya major difference between product and service companies, the problem with service companies like mine these days is we struggle to get quality youngblood to learn and do things efficiently at the customer/management desired budget, added to that the good experienced employees are switching to product companies or areas like AI. Hence everything here is still cost driven not innovation driven :rolleyes:.