How will you ever know where you stand in Express Entry pool???

[Regina]

a tie score cannot affect more than 50 people

Are you talking about people with lowest cut-off score? and if there are not only 50 but 550 of them? Then what?

I think CIC will look at the dates of applications for those with the lowest score , the same way as AU system works.

 

[boske83]

Are you talking about people with lowest cut-off score? and if there are not only 50 but 550 of them? Then what?

I think CIC will look at the dates of applications for those with the lowest score , the same way as AU system works.

Well, if there are 550, then all 550 will get ITA... in next draw, there will be 500 people less than planned, so their goal will be 1500 instead of 2000, and that is it...
CIC will know structure of pool, therefore they will be able to draw almost exact numbers of candidates...

legitimate people are not the issue, but fraud profiles - those will add confusion to entire system, not ties

 

[Regina]

Well, if there are 550, then all 550 will get ITA... in next draw,

Not if there are enough people with higher scores in the next draw.
Otherwise who will hang there for a year and never get ITA? Only "losers" with 100 points?

There will be some fluctuations in ITA's issued in each draw but there will not be consistency in the options (instructions). If you score was 563 this draw and you where not "chosen", then next time there could be enough people with lowest score at 570 and you will be not chosen again.

I am trying to assume and predict, and understand as much as you are.

Let's say the draw is set up for 2000 ITA. There are 1800 people with score 564 and higher, 3000 with 563, and 5000 with 562 and lower.Now, how to pick up 500 from those 3000 with 563? CIC cannot issue 4800 ( 1800+3000) ITA if the plan was 2000.

 

[boske83]

Not if there are enough people with higher scores in the next draw.
Otherwise who will hang there for a year and never get ITA? Only "losers" with 100 points?

There will be some fluctuations in ITA's issued in each draw but there will not be consistency in the options (instructions). If you score was 563 this draw and you where not "chosen", then next time there could be enough people with lowest score at 570 and you will be not chosen again.

I am trying to assume and predict, and understand as much as you are.

Let's say the draw is set up for 2000 ITA. There are 1800 people with score 564 and higher, 3000 with 563, and 5000 with 562 and lower.Now, how to pick up 500 from those 3000 with 563? CIC cannot issue 4800 ITA if the plan was 2000.

By the ministerial instructions, in case you have mentioned CIC MUST issue 4800 ITAs... but...

Like I said, CIC knows structure of the pool... so they can say - we will accept 1800 top people, and 200 people with NOC 2173... then, from 3000, at most 50 people will have equal score in desired NOC, and CIC is happy - they have drawn nearly exact number of candidates as they have predicted...

before the draw, CIC will adjust rules to issue +-50 ITAs...

 

[cecandconfused]

I think CIC will look at the dates of applications for those with the lowest score , the same way as AU system works.

No. CIC has made it very clear that the date you input your application in the EE pool is not a factor at all. All people in a "tie" cut-off score will receive ITA, but as Boske mentioned it won't be many ties.

legitimate people are not the issue, but fraud profiles - those will add confusion to entire system, not ties

That is my biggest concern so far about EE. Bogus profiles.
Here are a few examples:
1- "Advisor" decides to "test out" the system and creates a profile with bogus information and scores 489 (which apprently is considered high). That profile will clog the system and raise the cut-off score because of a high rank. So the bogus profile receives ITA (which sits without action for 60 days) and the legitimate applicant with 425 score won't get an ITA due to the bogus profile.

2- A lovely - albeit completely moronic - person from god-knows-where decides to move to Canada, but is too stupid to read all the rules and regulations first. He sees a link inviting him to create a profile. "Ah, just like twitter!" he thinks to himself as he brainlessly sends a tweet "Totally going to Canada LOL! #Iamsmrt". He then claims that he's great in English (though he's never taken a test), so he thinks he must be CLB 10, he also thinks his master's degree from Uzbakistan's #1 rated online correspondence college under a lake (ranked #3 at totallylegit.com) is valid (though he doesn't have ECA). He submits his application to the system and gets ITA. it will be weeks before CIC realizes that this guy's application is worst than a Dane Cook movie script and throw it out, clogging up the system yet again.

3- A guy from the lovely country of Legitistan sets up a fake company and offers "Canada immigration reference letters" for $20 a piece. Potentially fraudulent candidate sees this as an opportunity to boost his score and pays $20 for "10 totally legit years of experience in IT" . Since he's already living in Legitistan, he's got nothing to loose, because he can't be removed from Canada as a consequence of his action (because he doesn't live here) and there are no fees associated to enter in the pool. So virtually NOTHING to deter him to test the system and try to shove a fraudulent application in. If his fraud is found out, well whatever he didn't have a chance to move to Canada anyway, and if his fraud somehow works, woohoo, score.

To conclude, nothing deters bogus entrants in the pool, and that will cause enormous delays for legitimate people.
Sorry for the rambling.

 

[mf4361]

By the ministerial instructions, in case you have mentioned CIC MUST issue 4800 ITAs... but...

Like I said, CIC knows structure of the pool... so they can say - we will accept 1800 top people, and 200 people with NOC 2173... then, from 3000, at most 50 people will have equal score in desired NOC, and CIC is happy - they have drawn nearly exact number of candidates as they have predicted...

before the draw, CIC will adjust rules to issue +-50 ITAs...

I believe that is the case. CIC has to follow their own rules and issue ITAs to all candidate with cutoff score, regardless the amount. They can, however, control target issues in every draw.

But that's why I was trying to make my point. With thousands of candidates in the pool, the spectrum should be (relatively) evenly spread out. The probability of >20% of the pool having the same score point (out of 1200) extremely rare.

 

[Regina]

Like I said, CIC knows structure of the pool... so they can say - we will accept 1800 top people, and 200 people with NOC 2173... then, from 3000, at most 50 people will have equal score in desired NOC, and CIC is happy - they have drawn nearly exact number of candidates as they have predicted...

A! THat makes sence. The only if is 200 with NOC 2173 will be chosen from 3000. And if there 500 of them? Again the time of application could be important for those of NOC 2173 with 563 points. They pay a great attention to the date and even TIME of receiveing of appication:

Day and time of receipt

(2) An expression of interest is considered to be received on the day and at the time recorded in the Express Entry System.

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2014/2014-12-01-x10/html/extra10-eng.php#e02

it is just my assumption (however, based on AU system)

Also in case if in the next draw the cut off score will be 564 again, then those with 563 from previouse draw (with earlier dates of appying) will have better chances for getting ITA than those with the same score of 563 but later date of application.

 

[boske83]

No. CIC has made it very clear that the date you input your application in the EE pool is not a factor at all. All people in a "tie" cut-off score will receive ITA, but as Boske mentioned it won't be many ties.

That is my biggest concern so far about EE. Bogus profiles.
Here's are a couple of examples:
1- "Advisor" decides to "test out" the system and creates a profile with bogus information and scores 489 (which apprently is considered high). That profile will clog the system and raise the cut-off score because of a high rank. So the bogus profile receives ITA (which sits without action for 60 days) and the legitimate applicant with 425 score won't get an ITA due to the bogus profile.

2- A lovely - albeit completely moronic - person from god-knows-where decides to move to Canada, but is too stupid to read all the rules and regulations first. He sees a link inviting him to create a profile. "Ah, just like twitter!" he thinks to himself as he brainlessly sends a tweet "Totally going to Canada LOL! #Iamsmrt". He then claims that he's great in English (though he's never taken a test), so he thinks he must be CLB 10, he also thinks his master's degree from Uzbakistan's #1 rated online correspondence college under a lake (ranked #3 at totallylegit.com) is valid (though he doesn't have ECA). He submits his application to the system and gets ITA. it will be weeks before CIC realizes that this guy's application is worst than a Dane Cook movie script and throw it out, clogging up the system yet again.

3- A guy from the lovely country of Legitistan sets up a fake company and offers "Canada immigration reference letters" for $20 a piece. Potentially fraudulent candidate sees this as an opportunity to boost his score and pays $20 for "10 totally legit years of experience in IT" . Since he's already living in Legitistan, he's got nothing to loose, because he can't be removed from Canada as a consequence of his action (because he doesn't live here) and there are no fees associated to enter in the pool. So virtually NOTHING to deter him to test the system and try to shove a fraudulent application in. If his fraud is found out, well whatever he didn't have a chance to move to Canada anyway, and if his fraud somehow works, woohoo, score.

To conclude, nothing deters bogus entrants in the pool, and that will cause enormous delays for legitimate people.
Sorry for the rambling.

yep, bogus profiles are the only issue with this system...

Idiotic people, and bad people are issue for themselves - let's trust in people will not make harm to others... BUT...
Consultants are the evil of this system... if I am one - i would have at least 4 high rank profiles for 4 programs, 4 medium profiles for check of pool structure, and few more depending of draw rules... around 10 for each draw, and 4-5 will receive ITA...

imagine number of consultants in the world - it is in thousands... if only 5k is doing this, that will take 25k ITAs, and it is consistent...

Australia solved this by linking its system to British Council and ECA institutions... New Zealand solved it by fee for pool at 500$... we need to see what Canada will do...
i have already mentioned this in another threads - time is the issue... WHEN they will make pool valid, since it will be thrash at the beginning

 

[Regina]

So the bogus profile receives ITA (which sits without action for 60 days) and the legitimate applicant with 425 score won't get an ITA due to the bogus profile.

Well, in the end CIC will adjust everything to their target by, let' say, increasing target numbers of ITA in the last 6-8 draws. They count real people (immigrants who got PR visas, and not just "issued ITA's").

Australia solved this by linking its system to British Council and ECA institutions

CIC the same. To enter EE you MUST provide a proof of English test passed and ECA done.

 

[fkl]

Interesting assessments on the bogus profile situations. Let's see what actually develops.

Just thought of mentioning that degree verification and at least first stage application might even go okay without IELTS if you score well otherwise.

And certain PR programs such as CEC won't ever need a degree verification. So people already living here on say work permits with a job might actually get without worrying about some of the factors listed.

Update:

I haven't read enough details for applying for EOI. Some one mentioned you cannot be in the pool without IELTS et al, even if you make the score requirements. That would at least eliminate one factor of bogus profile

 

[mf4361]

A! THat makes sence. The only if is 200 with NOC 2173 will be chosen from 3000. And if there 500 of them? Again the time of application could be important for those of NOC 2173 with 563 points. They pay a great attention to the date and even TIME of receiveing of appication: http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2014/2014-12-01-x10/html/extra10-eng.php#e02

it is just my assumption (however, based on AU system)

Also in case if in the next draw the cut off score will be 564 again, then those with 563 from previouse draw (with earlier dates of appying) will have better chances for getting ITA than those with the same score of 563 but later date of application.

The quote from Gazette is referring to EOI being considered. It, of course, matters whether one gets into the pool for the next draw.

E.g. If I submitted EOI at 30th Jan 2015 23:55
and the next draw is for the snapshot of EE pool at 30th Jan 2015 23:59,
then yes I will be in the pool of the draw.
If I submitted EOI 31th Jan 2015 00:01,
then I will not be included in the Jan 30 draw and need to wait for next one.

 

[Regina]

okay without IELTS if you score well otherwise.

You will not be able to enter EE pool with out English test and ECA!!!!

It, of course, matters whether one gets into the pool for the next draw.

Yes, that's too.

 

[boske83]

You will not be able to enter EE pool with out English test and ECA!!!!

Yes, that's too.

Hehe but who can check if I have IELTS or ECA? officer that will jump in after I receive ITA?

I can always say - yes, i have clb10, phd and lmia job offer - that will be checked at the application review, and of course, i will be rejected... BUT - 60 days ITA validity will block pool completely because of the fake profiles - of course consultants will try to see how the procedure works, and since it is free and self-assigned - there is no cost or ban for creating mickey mouse profile

 

[fkl]

I think they would realize this pretty soon too and would put in some mechanism in place to resolve this.

It is going to be a new process - a good deal of evolution would come along as opposed to earlier existent processes working for a good length of time.

 

[boske83]

I think they would realize this pretty soon too and would put in some mechanism in place to resolve this.

It is going to be a new process - a good deal of evolution would come along as opposed to earlier existent processes working for a good length of time.

yep... few months will be lost for sure... I would like to see the idiots who architect the system without thinking of misusage...