Thank you Asivad Anac

[Pushpaacna]

Hi Asivad,


Hope, you are well. Could you kindly help with the following:


I am expecting my ECA anytime and have calculated my CRS would be around 430. I have got my language test result already (CLB 9). So, as soon as I get my ECA report, I will create my EE profile. I hope to get a PT notification from Ontario soon. With that in view, I have started gathering the documents I would require to submit to Ontario in 45 days. My questions are:

1. My bank balance is very poor. I have these options to put the settlement fund in my bank account - a) I can borrow from any of the relatives, b) I can ask my father who doesn't have a bank balance either, but can provide from the proceed of land sale, c) I can ask my mother-in-law, who has a bank balance, to transfer the money to my/my wife's bank account, c) I can sell a small piece of land that is on my name. Which is the best option?

2. Is it a problem that the fund will be in my bank account for only a month or so before I get the statement to submit to Ontario (because of the 45 days to submit all the documents)?

3. Can I apply with my official passport to Ontario as I will not have enough time before the 45 days to change to an ordinary passport (I will, of course, apply for an ordinary passport afterwards and hope to provide that one when I apply to CIC)?

4. And finally, most relevant NOC for me seems to be 1221 (Administrative Officer). What are the chances with that NOC, in your opinion, to obtain a PT notification?


Thank you very much in advance for your generous and timely help always!

 

[CanadaWeCome]

Thanks a Lot for the information. Do we need to show Credit card balance? Does the CIC do a credit history check?

No

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Incorrect.

CIC doesn't take into account any asset beyond cash in the bank or probably easily liquidated investments. For instance, you cannot showcase property, jewelry, vehicle, farmland etc as POF. Because CIC doesn't value your assets, it is irrelevant to showcase corresponding liabilities to CIC. They aren't interested in knowing your net worth. All they really want to know is if you have exclusive access to unencumbered funds as required in your particular situation. Period.

The only loan CIC would care about is a loan taken expressly for POF. Such a loan, if and when declared or identified by CIC, would cause refusal/revocation of PR. CIC doesn't care about any other loans that you might have or your serviceability of the same.

@charan_yalala and @Asivad Anac

I am sorry for the confusion. By "assets", I meant the funds he has in his possession - the ones which he would be showing to CIC. I meant to say if the liabilities are subtracted from the " funds " that he can show CIC and still has at least the minimum funds that are required, he is good to go.

 

[CanadaWeCome]

Hi Asivad,


Hope, you are well. Could you kindly help with the following:


I am expecting my ECA anytime and have calculated my CRS would be around 430. I have got my language test result already (CLB 9). So, as soon as I get my ECA report, I will create my EE profile. I hope to get a PT notification from Ontario soon. With that in view, I have started gathering the documents I would require to submit to Ontario in 45 days. My questions are:

1. My bank balance is very poor. I have these options to put the settlement fund in my bank account - a) I can borrow from any of the relatives, b) I can ask my father who doesn't have a bank balance either, but can provide from the proceed of land sale, c) I can ask my mother-in-law, who has a bank balance, to transfer the money to my/my wife's bank account, c) I can sell a small piece of land that is on my name. Which is the best option?
A: You are the best judge for your situation, but whatever you do you'll need to provide a gift deed from the borrower.
2. Is it a problem that the fund will be in my bank account for only a month or so before I get the statement to submit to Ontario (because of the 45 days to submit all the documents)?
A:As per the rule it needs to be there for 6 months, but if it's a gift deed then it should not be an issue.
3. Can I apply with my official passport to Ontario as I will not have enough time before the 45 days to change to an ordinary passport (I will, of course, apply for an ordinary passport afterwards and hope to provide that one when I apply to CIC)?
A: What do you mean an ordinary passport? Do you currently possess a diplomatic passport?
4. And finally, most relevant NOC for me seems to be 1221 (Administrative Officer). What are the chances with that NOC, in your opinion, to obtain a PT notification?
A: PT does not depend on NOC. ON only sees CRS>400 and Bachelors.

Thank you very much in advance for your generous and timely help always!

 

[Asivad Anac]

@charan_yalala and @Asivad Anac

I am sorry for the confusion. By "assets", I meant the funds he has in his possession - the ones which he would be showing to CIC. I meant to say if the liabilities are subtracted from the " funds " that he can show CIC and still has at least the minimum funds that are required, he is good to go.

Got that. But even that isn't entirely correct. One can have a $100,000 consumer loan but one would still need to showcase only $12,134 for a single applicant. Not $ 112,134. That's what I meant.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Got that. But even that isn't entirely correct. One can have a $100,000 consumer loan but one would still need to showcase only $12,134 for a single applicant. Not $ 112,134. That's what I meant.

Agreed but then, the OP was asking about showing loans. If the bank statement we produce (6 months statements) contain this loan debit every month, then CIC will know it is a loan and when they find out it is going to be a problem. If an applicant has a loan of CAD 10000 and his EMIs are visible on the statement, CIC might question it. If the applicant (single) has 23000 CAD in his possession, he still has 23000 - 10000 CAD in his possession and hence, still eligible because he still has the minimum required amount, isn't it?

Your comment is perfectly fine but if and when CIC questions about a loan for which emi debits are happening every month, then, the above deck scenario would hold good.

 

[Asivad Anac]

Agreed but then, the OP was asking about showing loans. If the bank statement we produce (6 months statements) contain this loan debit every month, then CIC will know it is a loan and when they find out it is going to be a problem. If an applicant has a loan of CAD 10000 and his EMIs are visible on the statement, CIC might question it. If the applicant (single) has 23000 CAD in his possession, he still has 23000 - 10000 CAD in his possession and hence, still eligible because he still has the minimum required amount, isn't it?

Your comment is perfectly fine but if and when CIC questions about a loan for which emi debits are happening every month, then, the above deck scenario would hold good.

Not really.

CIC doesn't question periodic credits or debits below a certain limit. Nothing officially declared on this one but one can conservatively assume this to be about 20% of LICO requirement for that individual.

If someone has taken a $10,000 loan for any purpose other than POF, it is up to the applicant to prove that to CIC. And that is going to be tough to prove because typically the only consumer loans to feature as 'credits' in the bank account are non asset-creation loans or personal loans - which is basically money borrowed from some source and kept as cash in the bank instead of being transferred to the owner of an asset (car/house/land) so that one may purchase it from them. EMIs aren't the problem because those are periodic debits from the account and CIC can't care less about those. The real challenge is maintaining a clean account summary for at least 6 months without any suspiciously large credit transaction(s).

In your example, the applicant will certainly be questioned by CIC if they haven't explained the source of funds for those $10,000. And if they haven;t conclusively proved that those $10,000 aren't borrowed just to showcase POF. This is why it isn't sufficient to have $23,000. Not because the POF has to be net of liabilities.

 

[maged_mmh]

Not really.

CIC doesn't question periodic credits or debits below a certain limit. Nothing officially declared on this one but one can conservatively assume this to be about 20% of LICO requirement for that individual.

If someone has taken a $10,000 loan for any purpose other than POF, it is up to the applicant to prove that to CIC. And that is going to be tough to prove because typically the only consumer loans to feature as 'credits' in the bank account are non asset-creation loans or personal loans - which is basically money borrowed from some source and kept as cash in the bank instead of being transferred to the owner of an asset (car/house/land) so that one may purchase it from them. EMIs aren't the problem because those are periodic debits from the account and CIC can't care less about those. The real challenge is maintaining a clean account summary for at least 6 months without any suspiciously large credit transaction(s).

In your example, the applicant will certainly be questioned by CIC if they haven't explained the source of funds for those $10,000. And if they haven;t conclusively proved that those $10,000 aren't borrowed just to showcase POF. This is why it isn't sufficient to have $23,000. Not because the POF has to be net of liabilities.

will it be a problem if you withdraw from acc#A (local currency) and deposit in acc#B (USD)?
will they ask for explanation for the same?

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Not really.

CIC doesn't question periodic credits or debits below a certain limit. Nothing officially declared on this one but one can conservatively assume this to be about 20% of LICO requirement for that individual.

If someone has taken a $10,000 loan for any purpose other than POF, it is up to the applicant to prove that to CIC. And that is going to be tough to prove because typically the only consumer loans to feature as 'credits' in the bank account are non asset-creation loans or personal loans - which is basically money borrowed from some source and kept as cash in the bank instead of being transferred to the owner of an asset (car/house/land) so that one may purchase it from them. EMIs aren't the problem because those are periodic debits from the account and CIC can't care less about those. The real challenge is maintaining a clean account summary for at least 6 months without any suspiciously large credit transaction(s).

In your example, the applicant will certainly be questioned by CIC if they haven't explained the source of funds for those $10,000. And if they haven;t conclusively proved that those $10,000 aren't borrowed just to showcase POF. This is why it isn't sufficient to have $23,000. Not because the POF has to be net of liabilities.

Okay, thanks for clarifying that.

My understanding was that the periodic debits that suggest an outstanding loan would be investigated by CIC. If they don't do that, then there's no argument here - there is really no need to keep extra funds!

I've always endorsed your view that showcasing liabilities is not necessary because CIC doesn't allow you to showcase the assets attached to them! Some applicants worry because their bank statements show periodic debits and hence they ask if they have to declare their loan to CIC and keep in extra funds are not.

Now its crystal clear! Thanks for taking time to explain!

 

[Asivad Anac]

will it be a problem if you withdraw from acc#A (local currency) and deposit in acc#B (USD)?
will they ask for explanation for the same?

If the PA is named on both those accounts, not a problem. You're transferring your money from one account to another and that is your prerogative so nothing to explain here.

 

[maged_mmh]

If the PA is named on both those accounts, not a problem. You're transferring your money from one account to another and that is your prerogative so nothing to explain here.

thank you. it wasn't done through transfer though, was actually withdrawals in one currency then deposits in another (2 separate transactions).

 

[Asivad Anac]

thank you. it wasn't done through transfer though, was actually withdrawals in one currency then deposits in another (2 separate transactions).

In that case, assuming you're using the USD account for POF purposes you'll be required to conclusively prove that the money isn't borrowed from anywhere.

 

[maged_mmh]

In that case, assuming you're using the USD account for POF purposes you'll be required to conclusively prove that the money isn't borrowed from anywhere.

how will one prove such a thing? isn't the debit from one account and the deposit in the other proof enough that the total money is the same?

 

[CanadaWeCome]

how will one prove such a thing? isn't the debit from one account and the deposit in the other proof enough that the total money is the same?

If the amount isn't big enough there is no need to prove anything, but agree it's not easy to prove such a transaction, even if the time of transactions were similar, it could have just been a mere coincidence.

 

[Asivad Anac]

how will one prove such a thing? isn't the debit from one account and the deposit in the other proof enough that the total money is the same?

Would've been easier to prove if the money hadn't moved around. Now this transaction will show as a big credit in Account B which is easily explainable as funds moved from your own Account A (which would again be easier to prove if it was direct bank-to-bank transfer rather than withdrawal-movement-deposit). Which will then take the trail back to your Account A and you'll have to prove that the POF amount in Account A wasn't borrowed in the first place.

Sounds tiring and it is frustrating. But that's the way CIC rolls.