Sponsored underage child got married and hid from her parents while coming

[zardoz]

The only option that this girl has now is to consult with an experienced immigration lawyer. As far as we can tell 1) she has broken immigration law, 2) she can't sponsor because of IRPR 117(9)(d), and finally 3) she is probably too young to be a sponsor.

 

[Rob_TO]

A man has sponsored a family of six, father, mother, two boys and two girls. One of the girls got secretly married after the sponsor. She gave birth to a child. When the family was called for interview, she was still under age 16.

I believe the legal age for marriage without parental consent in Canada, is 18 years old. And even with parental consent, I think ANY marriage of a 15 year old would be illegal/not valid. So even though she was married in another country, CIC may not recognize that marriage as it would have been invalid in Canada (though I don't know this for sure)

So in terms of sponsoring the husband in the future, it may still be ok if CIC doesn't recognize the validity of any marriage done, so he may not technically be defined as a husband or part of family class at the time she got visa.

The main issue would be sponsoring the undeclared child. The ONLY way to proceed here is with a H&C case. You should review previous appeals of undeclared children with minor parents in Canada, though my impression if CIC is very strict on these rules.
Also the risk with a H&C case, is that it will bring to light the misrepresentation of her own PR, which could give CIC grounds to revoke it. Although this in itself is also a H&C case since she is a minor still.

 

[keesio]

Please ask me where exactly to elaborate more on the case. We am still interested in helping this young girl whom we see her as a victim of old culture and unclear orientation of CIC systems.

My questions are this:

You said: "A man has sponsored a family of six, father, mother, two boys and two girls"

Who is this man that sponsored this family? What is his relation to this family?

You said "She has a baby and is now pregnant."

Is she pregnant with her first child? Or does she already have a baby and currently pregnant with her second child? (I think it is the second but I just want to be sure)

You mention that the family is in Canada. Did they LAND (i.e. are they permanent residents now)? Or are they just in Canada waiting while while the sponsorship application goes through?

 

[Madal]

My questions are this:

You said: "A man has sponsored a family of six, father, mother, two boys and two girls"

Who is this man that sponsored this family? What is his relation to this family?

You said "She has a baby and is now pregnant."

Is she pregnant with her first child? Or does she already have a baby and currently pregnant with her second child? (I think it is the second but I just want to be sure)

You mention that the family is in Canada. Did they LAND (i.e. are they permanent residents now)? Or are they just in Canada waiting while while the sponsorship application goes through?

I thank you all once again,

The man who sponsored them is a distance relative who privately sponsored them under humanitarian compassionate to keep this family for a year. She has a baby and is having the second pregnancy. But the first baby is the one she left with her husband. The family already landed in Canda and are PR.

The first person to know the case of the girl is her sponsor, which she told him for the first time that she is pregnant and left another baby and a husband behind , which their parents did not even know that. It is the sponsor which approached us with the case, and that took us some time to see the religious leader and community elders after some counseling, we convinced the whole family to be calm.

The girl was very confused until last week we calmed her down.

 

[Madal]

My questions are this:

You said: "A man has sponsored a family of six, father, mother, two boys and two girls"

Who is this man that sponsored this family? What is his relation to this family?

You said "She has a baby and is now pregnant."

Is she pregnant with her first child? Or does she already have a baby and currently pregnant with her second child? (I think it is the second but I just want to be sure)

You mention that the family is in Canada. Did they LAND (i.e. are they permanent residents now)? Or are they just in Canada waiting while while the sponsorship application goes through?

I thank you all once again,

The man who sponsored them is a distance relative who privately sponsored them under humanitarian compassionate to keep this family for a year. She has a baby and is having the second pregnancy. But the first baby is the one she left with her husband. The family already landed in Canda and are PR.

The first person to know the case of the girl is her sponsor, which she told him for the first time that she is pregnant and left another baby and a husband behind , which their parents did not even know that. It is the sponsor which approached us with the case, and that took us some time to see the religious leader and community elders after some counseling, we convinced the whole family to be calm.

The girl was very confused until last week we calmed her down.

 

[Madal]

I thank you all once again,

The man who sponsored them is a distance relative who privately sponsored them under humanitarian compassionate to keep this family for a year. She has a baby and is having the second pregnancy. But the first baby is the one she left with her husband. The family already landed in Canda and are PR.

The first person to know the case of the girl is her sponsor, which she told him for the first time that she is pregnant and left another baby and a husband behind , which their parents did not even know that. It is the sponsor which approached us with the case, and that took us some time to see the religious leader and community elders after some counseling, we convinced the whole family to be calm.

The girl was very confused until last week we calmed her down.

 

[jomz]

Thank you all who responded.
I am not professional consultant. I do not also represent the client whoever he is. We am one of the community elders. Lawyers are expensive, therefore we try to ask expert advise before telling the family to approach an expensive lawyer. People come to our community center with such vague cases, sometimes it may take us hours and hours, to learn their real situation. We cannot let them down, since we see them as an innocent citizens, we want to calmly teach them the law is above anyone in Canada. We try to make them understand the rules as much as we can. At times, they will approach us with cases, and before they even wait our responses, they will disappear and go to other provinces. For instance, all the previous cases we raised are no longer here in Edmonton. They all gone to Ontario where they think they will get better organized community members. We don't charge this type of service anything, it is voluntary and free of charge. When a disadvantaged person come to Edmonton, people in his surrounding tell him/her to come to the community office for help, and we are group of young people who volunteer ten hour per week to guide these confused refugees to the right path.

But, in this type of forum, people have to respect one another. It is possible to ask the person to clarify his/her case if he has any further answers, but it is not good to call names as some people did to me. If there is any doubt about the question, you can directly ask some specific questions, if you believe you can have an answer to that.

Please ask me where exactly to elaborate more on the case. We am still interested in helping this young girl whom we see her as a victim of old culture and unclear orientation of CIC systems.

She needs legal representation in any event. I would suggest the community organize to raise money to hire an experienced lawyer in H&C applications, this is exactly what our community does in such cases. Chances are slim but this is her only viable avenue.

 

[mikeymyke]

I think the husband should take a skilled trade and apply to live in Canada through that route, and add the child as dependent. Unlike with family class applications, skilled trade applications don't care about genuineness of marriage, or anything like that, they just focus on what your experience is, your English ability and your ability to integrate into society.

 

[Rob_TO]

which she told him for the first time that she is pregnant and left another baby and a husband behind ,

Again I should mention that if she got married to him at age 15, that marriage would not be valid in Canada so CIC would not view that man as her husband. They would see this as her leaving a boyfriend and baby behind.

If she got married to him again in a legal ceremony after turning 16 then the marriage would be valid, and then he could be sponsored.

However the baby can not be sponsored since it was not declared, so only chance here is H&C, which also might not work.

 

[Alurra71]

Again I should mention that if she got married to him at age 15, that marriage would not be valid in Canada so CIC would not view that man as her husband. They would see this as her leaving a boyfriend and baby behind.

If she got married to him again in a legal ceremony after turning 16 then the marriage would be valid, and then he could be sponsored.

However the baby can not be sponsored since it was not declared, so only chance here is H&C, which also might not work.

While Canada might have laws about ages to be legally married, I am not sure other countries all follow suit. I am under the impression that if where you married views it as a legal marriage, then Canada will also view it as a legal marriage. Now, because the law in Canada states that one must be at minimum 18 years old to sponsor, she would be held back from sponsoring him for a few years yet, IF she had claimed them initially.

My biggest question with this entire situation is exactly HOW did she manage to get away from her parents, get married, get pregnant, carry this pregnancy full term, deliver a baby, get pregnant AGAIN and move to Canada as a dependent of her parents and STILL they didn't know? Even with the most disinterested parents in the world, I would think they MIGHT notice a slight change in her during pregnancy, or perhaps notice that she has disappeared from their home for the last 9/10 months?

I have NO answers to give this family. There is going to be no easy fix for this one. Ignorance of the law is NEVER accepted as a reason for breaking the law. It is NOT up to CIC to educate those who wish to immigrate to Canada, but it is up to those who are immigrating to educate themselves about the country they are applying to go and live in. If they are being sponsored by someone else, again, they should take the time and accept the responsibility that it is up to them to ensure they know what they are getting into, nobody is more responsible for you then you are for yourself.

 

[on-hold]

Without commenting on the details of the original situation, I think that Madal's point that people here do not really understand the situations that refugees come out of is very well made. Quite simply, what he says is true, and the complexity is made worse by uneven access to information that the principle actors suffer under. This isn't simply cured by landing in Canada -- there are issues of language, of stress and mental health, and lasting trauma, not to mention the challenges of moving suddenly from a Kenyan refugee camp to Edmonton. It is natural for someone who represents this community to seek advice here, where it's not expert but at least acceptable; and it's shameful for them to be automatically met with the blank 'laws are laws, she should have known better'. All laws have applications that differ from their letter -- for example, it's generally understood that to offer large gifts secretly to a sitting Senator is not done; and yet the man who did that is not being charged. Many people don't like immigrants, I understand that, look at the disgusting comment that brought up, Lord knows why, Somali participation in the drug trade. All I can say to that is I am an immigrant to Canada; and before that, my great-grandparents were immigrants to America; and they came here by buying a ticket on a boat. That route has been closed off because the people here don't want more people coming so easily, and now we live in a world of detailed regulations and 'declare this before' and 'invalid marriage under Canadian law' -- that's fine, but it also behooves everyone to remember that we're talking about a young woman under great stress, with few resources, living in an unstable situation, and limited access to information. It would really make me happy if just once she could get advice without enduring the gauntlet of 'laws are laws'. CIC understands this itself, otherwise H&C would not exist. Keesio, ROB_TO, zardoz, and scylla, I appreciate you giving her direct advice and suggesting things she should mention to a real lawyer. Jomz and obronobini, is this really the role you want to play?

 

[Madal]

I thank to On-hold, Keesio, ROB_TO, zardoz, Scylla and everyone else who tried to help this distressed girl,

We got good and somehow tangible advice and we are more equipped and ready try to go back to the family and give them hints. That is all what this forum is all about and that whoever willing to give more steps and advice, please do so, you are more than welcome.

As to the rest of the forum members, I would say please respect the issues that what any member of this forum is raising without imagining everything not to your caliber is not genuine, and stop calling names. Think outside the box.

Thank you again.

 

[Rob_TO]

While Canada might have laws about ages to be legally married, I am not sure other countries all follow suit. I am under the impression that if where you married views it as a legal marriage, then Canada will also view it as a legal marriage.

That is not always true. For example, in many counties polygamy is perfectly legal, so a man can marry several wives and all would be considered legal marriages in that country. However in Canada, only the first marriage would be valid and all the rest would be illegal/invalid and not recognized for immigration purposes.

Also, I don't think it was mentioned but what is the age of this husband she left behind? If he is right around the same age as her that may be ok, but if he is say 20 years old or older, not only could the marriage not be valid in Canada, but according to Canadian law he would also be a criminal for getting a 15 year old girl pregnant.

 

[Avadava]

That is not always true. For example, in many counties polygamy is perfectly legal, so a man can marry several wives and all would be considered legal marriages in that country. However in Canada, only the first marriage would be valid and all the rest would be illegal/invalid and not recognized for immigration purposes.

Also, I don't think it was mentioned but what is the age of this husband she left behind? If he is right around the same age as her that may be ok, but if he is say 20 years old or older, not only could the marriage not be valid in Canada, but according to Canadian law he would also be a criminal for getting a 15 year old girl pregnant.

A agree. CIC's definition of a spouse:

"Spouse - Refers to either of the two persons (opposite or same sex) in a marriage legally recognized in the country in which it took place, as well as in Canada."

I am inclined to believe that the girl's marriage is not legal in Canada, therefore her 'husband' wouldn't be eligible for family class (and I don't think they lived together enough to establish common law). But the problem still remains that her baby should have been declared at landing.

Another interesting fact is that, according to CIC's definition of a dependent, you stop being one only if you have a spouse or common law partner (providing you meet the rest of the criteria). So this girl, even if she has a baby, she can still be considered a dependent of her parents. And even more interesting is the fact that CIC even has a definition for "dependent child of the dependent child".

"Dependent children - Refers to the children of the applicant or those of the spouse or common-law partner.

They must:
-be under the age of 22 and not have a spouse or common-law partner, or
-depend substantially on the financial support of a parent and have been continuously enrolled and in attendance as full-time students in a post-secondary institution accredited by the relevant government authority since before the age of 22 (or since marrying or entering into a common-law relationship, if this happened before the age of 22), or
-depend substantially on the financial support of a parent since before the age of 22 and be unable to provide for themselves due to a medical condition.


Dependent child of a dependent child - Refers to children of dependent children of the applicant or those of the spouse or common-law partner."

So from what I understand from those definitions, she is not legally married nor common law according to the Canadian laws, and that makes her still a dependent of her parents and her baby would be a dependent child of a dependent child. If she had only disclosed the fact that she has a baby, I think she could have sponsored at least the baby.

 

[yang01]

Hi all.

Im one of the dependents of my mother in canada. Yesterday,I received a letter about the medical exam. My problem is, I am turning to 6 months pregnancy. What will I do? Do I need to have medical exam? Deadline to comply will be on June or should I wait until my baby is born? Pls enlighten me. Would the other dependents will also wait until I give birth? Or they can still go to Canada even without me?