Sign petition: New Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination

[taleodor]

no. I guess he loves Canada. Wink
Why standing for Canadian interests does mean for you to hate something and somebody?

So the love of Canada makes you read each post in every single thread on this forum? Really? Something tells me, there is more to that.

But if you love Canada so much, these new rules (obviously) are going to hurt the country. It is probably difficult for not-so-well-educated minds to draw logical consequences, so please let me elaborate:
1. International students bring a large chunk of money into Canadian education system. Not talking about absolute numbers, I just want to point out that the tuition fees they pay is 2x-4x higher than those of the local students (in the case of Quebec's universities it's ~12K for year for international students vs ~3k per year for locals). What is going to happen, that after all those sudden changes in immigration laws, people will start looking elsewhere. Which will draw the money out. So, at the very least, you can expect a nice increase in tuition fees for Canadian students.
2. Highly skilled foreign workers will follow the students in looking elsewhere, for the same reasons (non-transparent immigration policies, changing every year or more frequently). This won't affect low skilled workers however. Hence, the problem of Canadians loosing their jobs for no reason will only grow. While smaller number of highly skilled people will be landing here.
3. As a result of all this, Canada will be loosing its share of highly skilled immigrants, while the overall immigration will stay the same (and this has already started by the way).

Now, talking about "double standards":
In our group, there are people who waited for years due to poor processes in CIC. In my case, I lost 1 year because of an office closure. But, we have some people in this group who have lost 3-5 years. And let me remind you, we were in Canada all this time, and we had to fight for our rights back then already. So now, we have some people living here for ~10 years, unable to apply for citizenship, and who would have to wait 2+ more years under a new law. This is what I call 'double standards'; this and referring to us like a 2nd class of people in this country. This is something that should be fixed ASAP.

And so to be clear, there is one thing what this law is about:
The current Government was unable to build a proper process inside CIC, which created a massive backlog of applications. So, instead of improving the processes, they are trying to temporarily solve this backlog by cutting people out. And if you do some math (you can ask me for help, if there is any trouble, btw), this backlog will re-appear right after the next elections.

So, these are some of the points that we understand and we are fighting about. I also believe that the way how we have organized and the very fact we are fighting for our rights prove that we deserve citizenship more than a couple of forum trolls.

Please don't forget the petition and keep signing it, and also attract people to join our cause: goo.gl/A8C91e

 

[maximin]

I have a couple questions for you guys.

Why was it reasonable to give temporary workers/students right to apply one non-PR year for citizenship in the past?
(Yes, it is true, no matter how long you were in Canada legally as non PR, 2 or 12 years, you have a right only for one year "discount")

Why is it reasonable to take it away now?

Because of backlog? Is not it Canadian government responsibility to process the applications since fees were taken? Why not hire more people?

Because the majority of ex-students and temporary workers leave Canada after getting citizenship?
OR/AND
Because the majority of PRs who recently fail their residential obligations are ex-students and ex-temporary workers?
Can I see the proving statistics, please?

If I see the proof, I will be in the first line of supporters of coming changes.

 

[torontosm]

BTW, @ torontosm, even though your arguments are really childish, please don't loose the steam and keep this thread going!

The more you try the more signatures we get for our petition! Let me remind you the link: goo.gl/A8C91e

Glad to be of service. Your petition and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee at Tims!

 

[sashali78]

Glad to be of service. Your petition and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee at Tims!

I really think you underestimate the energy of our petition group, as well the power of Change.Org. Time will tell though.

 

[torontosm]

I really think you underestimate the energy of our petition group, as well the power of Change.Org. Time will tell though.

Perhaps. But I really doubt that politicians will overlook the sentiments of the vast majority of Canadian citizens in favor of 3,000 students/TFW who have (anonymously) signed an internet petition that serves their own interests. But, like you said, time will tell.

 

[sashali78]

Perhaps. But I really doubt that politicians will overlook the sentiments of the vast majority of Canadian citizens in favor of 3,000 students/TFW who have (anonymously) signed an internet petition that serves their own interests. But, like you said, time will tell.

Signatures are not anonymous, they have full name/address info. We have meetings with 20+ MPs who will be delivered our full message and printed petition in person (look at the message to the decision maker section on the petition page). Besides, don't rely on the 3000 signatures mark, let's see next week.

 

[torontosm]

Signatures are not anonymous, they have full name/address info. We have meetings with 20+ MPs who will be delivered our full message and printed petition in person (look at the message to the decision maker section on the petition page). Besides, don't rely on the 3000 signatures mark, let's see next week.

Have you verified any of the names/addresses? could I sign it as Mickey Mouse residing at 111 Fantasy Lane?

 

[Regina]

could I sign it as Mickey Mouse residing at 111 Fantasy Lane?

Yea.... and these people consider themselves "integrated into Canadian life" They are still living in their home counties mentality.

 

[sashali78]

Have you verified any of the names/addresses? could I sign it as Mickey Mouse residing at 111 Fantasy Lane?

I did. The list is tracked by both Change.Org for multiple IP use and by myself and will be cleared of double or fake signatures as you mentioned. BTW, do you think when petition is signed in person by passing door to door, people always sign their full and real names?
I don't know what the real source of your scepticism is, but I guess it is much easier to criticize than doing something useful.

 

[taleodor]

Quote
could I sign it as Mickey Mouse residing at 111 Fantasy Lane?
Cheesy Yea.... and these people consider themselves "integrated into Canadian life" Wink They are still living in their home counties mentality.

Ha-ha, one troll is trolling another, and they both want to be called 'Mickey Mouse'. I love this forum
On a more serious note, while I would strongly oppose you signing as 'Mickey Mouse', I cannot prevent you from doing so. However, in that case, your signature will be excluded from the list and will not be delivered to the House of Commons.

@maximin
1. Most news releases so far have simply ignored the pre-PR time issue we are talking about and petitioning. It seems, that the Government tried to hide this stripping pre-PR time initiative in a single paragraph in depths of the new bill.
2. The public opinion on this issue is not formed. While most of the Canadian public (me including) support the measures to fight the fraud, not so many people have spent their time to go through the details of the proposed bill. Particularly, taking away pre-PR time from citizenship consideration is something that would hurt Canada. And in no way it serves fraud prevention or anything positive.
3. In the news releases from CIC the current backlog is named to be the only reason for stripping out pre-PR time. BTW, one can think of no sane justification to this. I just want to point out here, that forum trolls have successfully confirmed this last opinion.

To summarize, there seems to be nothing special about this immigration group, apart from the facts that their integration usually goes smooth, and they are not likely to live on welfare. And the reason why Government is trying to strip pre-PR time is the backlog. Why would they want to clear the backlog now? Why the rush? Maybe, they want the backlog to disappear prior to the next elections? And then, who cares if it re-appears a year after? Just saying...

P.s. Please don't forget to sign the petition and share it with people you know: goo.gl/A8C91e

 

[sashali78]

We are currently at over 3000 signatures. Our message has been fully formed and published on the petition page. We have started contacting MPs and brining our message and petition to them. So far we are engaging 23 MPs, but we are looking for more volunteers to reach more. If you are ready to volunteer , contact us at : FightTheBillC24 @ outlook.com . We will be providing full document and training support for the assignees.

Support us at: https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/house-of-commons-in-parliament-of-canada-do-not-allow-unfair-treatment-of-former-foreign-workers-and-international-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

 

[maximin]

taleodor, thanks for valuable input.

 

[just_do_it]

Re: New Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination against foreign workers/students

I'm afraid you don't fully understand the changes in the law and citizenship requirements. Right now, the requirement is for 3 years residency while 1 of those years CAN be accumulated under TEMPORARY status (study, work permits, etc). So, for example, a foreign worker living and working in Canada for 2 years and getting his PR AFTER that time would only have to wait 2 more years before applying for citizenship. Under the new proposed law, not only the residency requirement is raised up to 4 years (which I do find adequate), but also the temporary residence will no longer be counted towards citizenship applications. So, aforementioned foreign worker will have to wait 4 years (instead of 2) before he can apply.
Thus, the former foreign worker population affected twice as much as the general immigrant population. Taken into account that this population already have established ties in Canada even before getting PR - it is absurd and nothing else but discrimination.
I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

Normally, PR is the first step towards citizenship in any country. the fact that temp residents got credit for upto a year previously, it was a perk that regular PR's did not have.

Now that they have taken it away, it just means those temp residents have lost a perk. thats all. I see no discrimination. and please dont play the race/ discrimination card. Thats what really ticks me off when new immigrants try to play the system so they can try to get things done a little faster. Having PR is adequate enough to do pretty much everything (bar vote) in Canada. So i dont see the need to rush to get citizenship.

and I bet if you became a PR through the normal route, you would have still screamed discrimination to take that perk away from temp residents because it is unfair to those who did not qualify for a year's credit.

If you talk to canadians, their view on this is to raise the time limit to 10 years before granting citizenship. so there, you still have it pretty good.

The fact is that immigration and citizenship to Canada is going to get tougher in the future. I wouldnt be surprised if half the immigration programs available today are buried in the next 5-10 years.

 

[just_do_it]

The Govenment has advised longer stay in Canada to become Canadian. So students and foreingn workers already have that stay and connections in Canada to become Canadian. There can never be an equivalency between a just landed PR and a student or worker already living in Canada in terms of Canadian experience.Elimination of time spent in Canada is not a fair treatment towards people who already know the Canadian lifestyle.

Student and visitor visa's/ work visa's are granted under the pretext that the temp worker will return to their home country after their study/ work permit expires. If you have applied for a student visa, you should know that you have to satisfy the Visa officer that you are going there for study and not for settling down (even though thats the intention).

I'm amazed at how people are screaming discrimination at these changes. Like i said before, it was a perk that temp residents enjoyed over direct PR's and TBH, those PR's could have screamed discrimination and lobbied to remove it.

All i see is a strengthening of measures to weed out citizens of convenience in Canada and unfortunately it means it will affect other categories as well, but the intent is to be able to have citizens who actually want to live and work here. so if you spend 4 years studying here and another year or 2 while getting PR and another 4 years getting your citizenship, you will probably be well 'canadianized' by the end of it and hopefully live and work here for the rest of your life.

again, it matters not , atleast to me personally, having a canadian passport has not changed things drastically for me other than making it easier to travel to the US ( a lot less questioning).

 

[taleodor]

Why do you guys spend so much time writing these posts, but don't want to do a simple fact checking?

Student and visitor visa's/ work visa's are granted under the pretext that the temp worker will return to their home country after their study/ work permit expires. If you have applied for a student visa, you should know that you have to satisfy the Visa officer that you are going there for study and not for settling down (even though thats the intention).

This is plain false for study and work permits. It is normal for an applicant for a Work/Study Permit, that they want both to work/study in Canada and to immigrate. This is called 'Dual Intentions', and is officially acknowledged by CIC, and work/study permits also give an easier path to immigration. The officers are not checking that a potential student/worker is not going to settle down in Canada. Instead, they need a proof that an applicant will return to his/her country in the event that say (s)he doesn't have job or study any more, of if their PR application is turned down.

@just_do_it Needless to say, that since your base assumption is false, all subsequent implications are false as well. But still, let me walk you through couple of points.

I'm amazed at how people are screaming discrimination at these changes. Like i said before, it was a perk that temp residents enjoyed over direct PR's and TBH, those PR's could have screamed discrimination and lobbied to remove it.

This is also false. After 5 years in Canada, I know more than a few Canadians, PRs, temp workers and students. The only question people ask is 'How long have you been in Canada?'. No one even thinks to ask 'How long have you been in Canada with PR?' People in general are smart enough to realize that there's no difference between PR-time and pre-PR time. On the contrary, they feel that something is wrong with the Immigration, when they see a person who is for so long in Canada, and his/her case was delayed for years, and this person cannot apply for citizenship. I.e., I met a Police officer in Montreal, who couldn't believe that Immigration was processing my case for more than 3 years.

If you talk to canadians, their view on this is to raise the time limit to 10 years before granting citizenship. so there, you still have it pretty good.

The fact is that immigration and citizenship to Canada is going to get tougher in the future. I wouldnt be surprised if half the immigration programs available today are buried in the next 5-10 years.

None of Canadians I talked to cared about the time. This is also why you cannot provide any proof to your statement. In my experience, people here care about these things regarding immigrants: 1) preserving jobs for Canadians, 2) fraud prevention, 3) not letting terrorists/criminals slip through the system, 4) avoid immigrants who come here to get on welfare and use Government services, while doing nothing. Eliminating pre-PR time from citizenship consideration doesn't make any positive effect on any of these. On the contrary, as I wrote before, it would probably have negative effect towards a) preserving jobs, b) increasing share of welfarists among immigrants, c) bringing less money for Canadian education system, d) less taxes collected (since highly-skilled workers and students may prefer to go elsewhere being replaced by low-skilled immigrants).