Sign petition: New Citizenship Act Bill C-24 discrimination

[Regina]

Now, it is hard to under stand that how students or workers fail in this pre requisite

On the assumption that students and temp workers are going to live in Canada permanently should not they be granted citizenship at the landing at the POE, eh?

 

[torontosm]

When you arrived in Canada as a student, refugee, TFW or any other visitor, you arrived as just that. What do you mean by just that ?. Yes, we get the visa we apply for. So no one has done a favour.

No one said anyone is providing favours. However, students, TFW's, etc. arrived as temporary visitors to Canada. They did not apply for, nor were they granted, permanent residency. While they are in the country as students or TFW's, they remain temporary visitors....that's all.

You were not subject to the same criteria for qualification as permanent residents, and nor did your application undergo the same scrutiny. Yes, i agree with you that students don't have to undergo extensive security clearances but what is the difference between the life of a person living in Canada on a student visa, a work visa or a PR. You do the same things in normal life, don't you ?

What does the daily life have to do with anything? either you apply and are granted admission as a permanent resident, or you apply and are granted admission as a student or TFW. To me there is a marked difference between the two.

No one guaranteed you eventual PR or citizenship, and no one ever said that the rules won't change.I agree with you on this but hey again students never made or invented these pathways to permanent residency. Canada wanted to retain the talent and had permanent residency to offer so the offer well accepted by the workers or students.

Students should be grateful that Canada, unlike many developed countries, actually offers this. Try getting a green card after graduating from university in the US and you will appreciate just how "friendly" the Canadian system is. Regardless, as I said, the Government makes the rules and the Government can change them. When students and TFW's fulfill the requirements to become citizens, they can try and influence legislation. Until then, they can't.

Students go to universities or colleges and share knowledge with Canadians, they make Canadian friends and be a part of the Canadian society. Students or workers buy goods in Canada and go to malls where all Canadians go, they also go to same places to enjoy where Canadians go. Same kind of public transport is used and same level of taxes are being paid.

By that logic, someone who visits Canada regularly also goes to the same malls as Canadians and likely contributes more to the economy than most students. Should we count their time in Canada as well?

Also, I'm tired of the argument that since TFW's or students pay taxes, they deserve recognition for this. They pay taxes simply because they receive benefits. The payment of taxes does not, and has never, entitled anyone to citizenship or any other special privileges. It is an obligation on everyone living in Canada, regardless of their status. So please stop bemoaning this fact.

 

[mead]

On the assumption that students and temp workers are going to live in Canada permanently should not they be granted citizenship at the landing at the POE, eh?

ur taking the quote out of context. what earlier post says is that why students who stay in canada pay canadian fees(more than canadian do) integrate is society, why is that time not valuable time . the purpose of having the time as PR before citizenship is to give new arriving immigrants time to adjust to canadian society and prove that they have positive influence on the canadian society and the society as large benefits . By saying what ever u quoted ur saying we as a students are not part of canadian society and ur basically discriminating against the international student community and saying even though we r living ,paying fees , etc are not part of what canada has to offer. how is it fair to say that time spent as a student in canada is not valuable time . ur discriminating against international student community by saying even though we staying in canada we cannot use it towards our citizenship.....this petition is to keep the rule as they r and not change them against international student community
even though we have no right to vote ..we still can raise our voice and say we do not like the new changes whats wrong with that?

 

[harry_aussie]

@torontosm you are avoiding the topic here. Why time before PR is being ignored ?. Minister wants future Citizens to know what being a Canadian actually means, so he has proposed longer presence in Canada to become "Canadianized". Now people who have lived in Canada 6-7 or more years before PR are being considered having no stay or no experience of Canadian life. How fair is it to consider time spent in Canada worth nothing ?.

@Regina Thank you soo much for such a kind gesture.Well why would you assume ?. People who want to live in Canada permanently will apply for it because it is on offer( on sale by Canada) others don't give a hoot to PR or Citizenship. So please keep your generosity for some good cause, we are happy to earn permanent residency or Citizenship.

 

[torontosm]

@ torontosm you are avoiding the topic here. Why time before PR is being ignored ?. Minister wants future Citizens to know what being a Canadian actually means, so he has proposed longer presence in Canada to become "Canadianized". Now people who have lived in Canada 6-7 or more years before PR are being considered having no stay or no experience of Canadian life. How fair is it to consider time spent in Canada worth nothing ?.

I'm not avoiding anything. Time before PR is being ignored because the citizenship rules say that this time does not count. That's it. When you enter Canada as a visitor, you are there simply as a visitor. When you gain your PR status, you become a permanent resident on the track for citizenship and the clock should start then.

As for the time spent in Canada being "worth nothing", I would argue the experience of living, studying or working in Canada is worth a lot. Obviously many other agree which is why they come to Canada to study or work, and then return to their home countries. You, on the other hand, seem to hold the belief that the only thing of value that Canada has to offer is a passport.

 

[torontosm]

what earlier post says is that why students who stay in canada pay canadian fees(more than canadian do) integrate is society, why is that time not valuable time . the purpose of having the time as PR before citizenship is to give new arriving immigrants time to adjust to canadian society and prove that they have positive influence on the canadian society and the society as large benefits . By saying what ever u quoted ur saying we as a students are not part of canadian society and ur basically discriminating against the international student community and saying even though we r living ,paying fees , etc are not part of what canada has to offer. how is it fair to say that time spent as a student in canada is not valuable time . ur discriminating against international student community by saying even though we staying in canada we cannot use it towards our citizenship.....this petition is to keep the rule as they r and not change them against international student community
even though we have no right to vote ..we still can raise our voice and say we do not like the new changes whats wrong with that?

There is no discrimination at all, and if you think that there is, perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word. No one is saying you are not part of Canadian society. You absolutely are. But, you are here as a visitor for the purpose of studying. Your experience here is invaluable, but not towards the goal of becoming a citizen because that is not the purpose of your being in the country. You applied to enter Canada for the sole purpose of studying, which you are still entitled to do. How is that discriminatory?

If you want to become a citizen of this great country, then first meet the requirements for permanent residency, then apply and get approved for permanent residency, and then fulfill the obligations for citizenship. If, during this time, the government changes the requirements, then you have to accept that because unfortunately as a visitor, you do not get a say in the legislature of a foreign government. You are entitled to raise your voice, but you must also understand that the Government's obligations is look out for the welfare and benefit of its citizens and not of its visitors.

 

[harry_aussie]

Well passport is a part of the process and included with the benifits of being a Citizen and Citizenship is not something i have developed. Canada has it on offer and we accept that offer.I can also read that Citizenship rules say that but who made Citizenship rules ? The person/s while drafting such rules may have overlooked few important points, so yes changes can be made to the rules. Would you be supportive to us if somehow(unlikely) this clause gets dropped ?. Canada has many things to offer which we enjoyed and same applies to Canada.

 

[mead]

No one is saying you are not part of Canadian society. You absolutely are. But, you are here as a visitor for the purpose of studying. Your experience here is invaluable, but not towards the goal of becoming a citizen because that is not the purpose of your being in the country. You applied to enter Canada for the sole purpose of studying, which you are still entitled to do. How is that discriminatory?

yes we are here as visitors but why shouldnt the experience that we lived here not be counted towards citizenship? yes we r not here as PR on a track to citizenship but why is experience living in canada different? r we not part of the society like the PR's ...r we not law abiding ....what r we doing wrong or different?
no one is saying we r not going to fulfill our obligations and requirements of citizenship application. if a law is changing and we dont approve we r raising our voice against it. international students community brings in lot of money our voice should be heard . its like saying 'we want ur money but ur not one of us'.

 

[torontosm]

No one is saying you are not part of Canadian society. You absolutely are. But, you are here as a visitor for the purpose of studying. Your experience here is invaluable, but not towards the goal of becoming a citizen because that is not the purpose of your being in the country. You applied to enter Canada for the sole purpose of studying, which you are still entitled to do. How is that discriminatory?

yes we are here as visitors but why shouldnt the experience that we lived here not be counted towards citizenship? yes we r not here as PR on a track to citizenship but why is experience living in canada different? r we not part of the society like the PR's ...r we not law abiding ....what r we doing wrong or different?
no one is saying we r not going to fulfill our obligations and requirements of citizenship application. if a law is changing and we dont approve we r raising our voice against it. international students community brings in lot of money our voice should be heard . its like saying 'we want ur money but ur not one of us'.

Again, the Canadian economy is really not dependent on your international student fees or the taxes you pay. You school fees entitle you to an education and nothing more. Your taxes (if you have any) entitle you to social benefits and nothing more. If you honestly believe that your leaving the country will cripple the economy, then the Canadian education system has failed you.

 

[mead]

Again, the Canadian economy is really not dependent on your international student fees or the taxes you pay. You school fees entitle you to an education and nothing more. Your taxes (if you have any) entitle you to social benefits and nothing more. If you honestly believe that your leaving the country will cripple the economy, then the Canadian education system has failed you.

u still dont understand the point do u? we r contributing towards canadian community why is it any different? eg: u buy a 10cent candy in a store does it mean ur not contributing towards the stores revenue ? just because its just 10 cents the store owner has the right to treat u like crap? this is a very exaggerated example. with paying fees taxes etc we r not saying we making canada rich we r saying we r contributing members of community and our time spent as such should be taken into account.

 

[harry_aussie]

This how much Canadian economy getting from us and this is a good amount for Canada and can run some of its welfare programmes.

http://www.international.gc.ca/education/assets/pdfs/economic_impact_en.pdf

We estimate that in 2010, international students in Canada spent in excess of
7.7 billion on tuition, accommodation and discretionary spending; created over 81,000 jobs; and generated more than $445 million in government revenue.
Altogether there were more than 218,200 long-term (staying for at least six months) international students in Canada in 2010, generating more than $6.9 billion to the Canadian economy. It is estimated that nearly 37 percent of that revenue came from two countries – China and South Korea. As of December 2010 there were 56,900 Chinese and 24,600 South Korean citizens in Canada undertaking a formal education program. Ontario and BC hosted nearly two thirds of the international students in Canada (85,300 and 60,500 respectively) while Quebec was a distant third.
Short term students who pursued language training also contributed an estimated $788 million to the Canadian economy.
Overall, the total amount that international students spend in Canada ($8.0 billion) is greater than our export of unwrought aluminium ($6 billion), and even greater than our export of helicopters, airplanes and spacecraft ($6.9 billion) to all other countries.
When the value of educational services provided in Canada to international students is compared to the value of the more traditional goods that Canada exports, the impact for some countries is even more striking. The Saudi Arabians, for example, spend the equivalent of 44% of the value of the goods they import from Canada on educational services. Similarly, we see that South Korea (19.1%), China (13.9%), India (27.9%), and France (14.2%) all spend significantly for educational services when compared to the trade in goods they import from Canada.
In total, the annual expenditure of $8.0 billion by international students translated to estimates of almost $4.9 billion worth of contribution to GDP, 86,570 jobs, and $455 million of government tax revenue.

 

[torontosm]

u still dont understand the point do u? we r contributing towards canadian community why is it any different? eg: u buy a 10cent candy in a store does it mean ur not contributing towards the stores revenue ? just because its just 10 cents the store owner has the right to treat u like crap? this is a very exaggerated example. with paying fees taxes etc we r not saying we making canada rich we r saying we r contributing members of community and our time spent as such should be taken into account.

It's different because you knowingly and willingly came to Canada as a student for the sole purposes of studying. You did not come here as an immigrant with the purpose to residency. There is a stark difference between the two.

 

[harry_aussie]

Then why does Canada advertise CEC soo much ?. Canada is well aware that students and workers will apply for CEC once they are done with the pre requisites. Canada has offered us their programmes and we accepted the offers. There is a win win situation for both.

 

[torontosm]

Then why does Canada advertise CEC soo much ?. Canada is well aware that students and workers will apply for CEC once they are done with the pre requisites. Canada has offered us their programmes and we accepted the offers. There is a win win situation for both.

There are a total of 12,000 CEC positions in aggregate (globally). Each year Canada allows in more than 100,000 international students. Do you see how the numbers don't add up to support your argument?

 

[harry_aussie]

What do you mean numbers don't add up ?. The point is Canada advertises to us its programmes so Canada needs us for the top dollar.. CEC is not the only programme that students and workers can apply under and many do leave Canada. So the ones who want to stay in Canada apply for the same. Believe me Canada is not able to match the numbers because it lacks the resources to deal with that many applications. It has become really hard for Canada to provide timely service in the current scenario and you expect Canada to create more blunders by jacking up the numbers ?. Do you even know how long Canada takes to process a routine CEC application, if you really know you would thank Canada for doing such a great job., let alone the jacking up of the numbers.