Marriage of convenience

[GTWifey]

Also, as I said before...I do not think those being scammed should blame the government for that...they know what they are getting into and the risks they are taking. IF they don't know the risks, than in my opinion these are the people that will allow themselves to be used and taken advantage of by fellow Canadians as well.

YES! Remember that part.

 

[Lois Lane]

Joecreosta is taking some heat! Well, in general, people who over-generalize leave themselves open to criticism. Nevertheless, I think his posts are making an important point--albeit in a way that is offensive to many. I think it's good for everyone getting married or sponsoring a spouse from abroad to consider the points laid out in his posts. I have met many people in long-lasting relationships with partners they've met while on holiday or online, but I've also seen many who probably would have benefited from a little shock talk from Joecreosta prior to getting married. Here is what he said in an earlier post (sorry, I am new to forums and I don't know how to make it appear in a separate box):

Here's the issue for the innocent Canadians when they fall in love with their spouses over the internet.
1) they do NOT speak same language
2) spouse overseas knows little English or not at all
3) no communication with spouse's family overseas, only husband wife aint enough for this marriage game
4) spouses not having any education on western canadian culture
5) sponsors not knowing their spouses family culture relgious values
6) sponsors not giving enough time to understand each other and their cultures
7) sponsors not knowing differences between two religions
sponsors just being so desperate to bring someone new to their life from overseas, forgetting about their own back-yard sales (u can find plenty at bars clubs)
9) sponsors not consulting with their families and friends before importing a husband from overseas
10) this one is funny, sponsors and applicants claiming to have been fallen in love before even seeing each other in person

.
1. my husband speaks Arabic, French and English fluently, his family speaks Arabic and French so i can comunicate easily with them in French
2. if sponsor and applicant dont speak same language and cant communicate they are naturally refused
3. immigration clearly asks about communication with the family over seas as well as the applicants communication with the sponsor's family...it is rare that there is absolutely no communication with the family, that being said, my husbands father is Muslim and took issue with me being a non muslim, and so i never met them until after we were married...once we met it was all good
4.there is no course on western culture but most are keenly aware of how things work in the west from music to clothes to language...there are of course aspects that since they haven't lived here are unknown but this comes with getting to know each other, in daily communication with no distrations, these are things that come up and are discussed by most couples
5.i am not religious and frankly have no interest in delving deeply into the Muslim faith I am respectful of ALL religions...i find for instance and NOT MEANING TO OFFEND ANYONE I HAVE VERY GOOD friends that are Jahova Witnesses...i have no interest in finding out about that religion either...
6.i married my first husband after nine months he was the same age same culture no PR required BAD idea lol so it happens not only in internet relationships
7/i'm not religious at all i think i mentioned that lol but because i was baptised i was able to marry a Muslim man...so it worked out well for me but i have NO interest in going to theC catholic church unless a close friend is marrying.
now there's an idea..go to a bar...meet someone that is plastered that is way better LOL geeeeeeeeeees
9.of course most people let their family and friends know that they are getting married...they may or may not get support but they are still going to do it...again this is a quesiton immigration asks and the response is relevent to being approved or not
10. it absolutely can happen does happen and MANY on here are living proof if no one else is willing to admit it so be it but I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT HAPPENS

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

YES! Remember that part.

I don't have to remember that because if my husband doesn't get approved, we already have plans for me to move there to the Dominican Republic. Also, before we met he had plans on going to the US with his family but, we met, fell in love, got married and he has since decided against going to the US. If he was just looking to get out of the DR...he already had that option. But again, guess I won't know for certain until he gets here. Life in general is a risk and it wouldn't be worth living if I lived in a bubble afraid of taking risks. I have been hurt before, did I blame anyone but myself and the other party involved...absolutely NOT, so why would I start now?!

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

Well said Lois Lane. I know our marriages are not "typical" but that does not mean they are any less real than other marriages!

 

[Lois Lane]

I don't have to remember that because if my husband doesn't get approved, we already have plans for me to move there to the Dominican Republic. Also, before we met he had plans on going to the US with his family but, we met, fell in love, got married and he has since decided against going to the US. If he was just looking to get out of the DR...he already had that option. But again, guess I won't know for certain until he gets here. Life in general is a risk and it wouldn't be worth living if I lived in a bubble afraid of taking risks. I have been hurt before, did I blame anyone but myself and the other party involved...absolutely NOT, so why would I start now?!

ok hmmmmm again i couldn't agree more nor could have said it better myself LMAO

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

I hate that in responding to these posts I sound defensive. I guess I am in a way. Not that I should have to defend my marriage to anyone, but I truly dislike when people presume to know anything about meeting and marrying a Dominican, or someone from the internet etc. Unless of course they are or were in the same situation and got burned...then I suppose I could understand why they are being so harsh, cruel and judgemental!

 

[Lois Lane]

rest assured that is EXACTLY the situation!

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

rest assured that is EXACTLY the situation!

I KNOW!

 

[GTWifey]

@ East Coast: Like others on the forum, I know several abandoned sponsors who spoke with the same conviction that you have today. Very defenceful, argumentative, & angry. . . good luck.

I also have friends & family who have sponsored and remain very happily married with their foreign spouses. This is what we all aspire to & I hope we all achieve. . .

With that being said, I do not regret coming in defence of Joe for posting the Toronto Star article which presents true facts/stories about what happens after the applicant has LANDED. After all the phone calls, bells, whistles, & exotic travel comes to an end; the Sponsor enters into a day to day living situation with the Applicant. This is when the true test begins. . .

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

I have no issue with the facts he posted, I do however have a HUGE issue with him calling Canadian women stupid and talking down about how people meet their spouses. What's it to him how I met my husband?! Meeting someone at the grocery store down the street may turn out just as disastrous as some over seas/Canadian Marriages! THAT is what I had issue with, and will defend til the end!

I don't normally consider myself defensive, but yes I do feel I have to stand up to people that post such derogatory statements towards women! I am also not angry, just stating that people shouldn't judge until they walk a mile in MY shoes, with my Dominican man!

I am not the type of person to categorize people and assume all people are the same based on race, religion, nationality etc etc! I give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove to me they don't deserve it. Maybe this is my downfall, but that's it it's MY downfall and people should not judge me because of it. If my husband turned out to be a scammer, I would be the one to suffer, not you, not anyone else. BUT, if he's not, and I trust that he's not...he will be a contributing member to CANADIAN society!

With that said, I am not responding to any more posts on this topic at this time, I feel as if I have stooped to the level of the ones judging on here and it makes me sick :-[

Good luck to you all.

 

[nyssa]

My husband using me is the last of my worries. We've known each other 8 years and used to live together for 2 years. We were going to get married anyway until we realized he couldn't stay in the US so now we have no choice but to bring me to Canada. I'm so sorry to anyone who has to wonder about that... luck to you all.

My two cents about posts prior, now... the facts show that certain countries have a higher scam rate than others. However, degrading people on this forum, a wonderous place meant to provide information and comfort to those applying or sponsoring is inappropriate. It's probably best to just drop the issue all-together. No one can alter someone's opinions which have such deep roots. At the end of the day, just play nice.

 

[reegs]

At the end of the day, the only two people who are truly able to comment on your relationship are you and your partner. Only you two really know the dynamic of your relationship and everyone else's opinions are just that, opinions. No one on here is really in the position to talk constructively about anyone else's relationship except their own. The meat of Joe's post was aimed at bringing attention to the unique risks facing those who are marrying abroad/online/etc--and everyone agrees that those risks do exist. What's left to discuss?

 

[GTWifey]

I agree. . .

My husband and I are elated to finally be going through the process. . .even planning our wardrobes & flight details for when he lands in Canada. lol ;D

Joe, I enjoyed reading the article. I'm learning so much on the forum so real life stories/posts like that really help. Sponsorship should be a happy process for all. . .

 

[EaSt CoAsT GiRl]

AGREED to the above 2 or 3 posts

 

[rjessome]

I think everyone is missing an important point. Yes, scams happen with marriage fraud to Canadian citizens and PR's. But the real questions are: How do you prove it? And if you, as the Canadian in this equation, feel that you've been duped, should your estranged spouse be allowed to stay in Canada as a PR?

CIC does NOT want to get into your bedroom, in the middle of a "he said/she said" thing (or a "he/he" and "she/she" in the case of our same-sex couples). As PMM has said many times, CIC is not your mother. So how do you prove fraud?

Secondly, if a marriage breaks down because of things other than genuineness let's say 6 months or a year after landing in Canada, where does that put the new PR? Should they be sent back to their country of origin because of a break down in the marriage that has nothing to do with fraud?

I think what the couples are saying in this story is that the new PR's should NOT be able to retain the benefit of being a PR of Canada. I'm pretty sure that most of them are embarrassed, humiliated and devastated by what's happened to them if they were in fact the victims of marriage fraud. Wouldn't you feel stupid? I know I would. So let's say that it's a given that they are feeling pretty dumb. No point in beating them up further. But what is the responsibility of the government now? Let's say that for these cases, the Canadians WERE the victim of fraud. The Act and Regulations say that marriage fraud is illegal and a person committing such an act can lose their PR. BUT IT IS NOT ENFORCED. Should the government put more of a priority on investigating fraud in marriages? Once again, they don't want to get into your bedroom.

Some are arguing (in the article) that there should be conditions put on the visa obtained when sponsoring spouses, like in Australia and the UK. What Mr. Kischer is pointing out is that this could and would create a class of people who could be threatened to "behave or be deported". Do you think that every sponsored spouse that comes to Canada is well versed in Canadian law and their rights? Think again. So it's a catch-22. It is the obligation of the Canadian government to protect her citizens and permanent residents. But Canada takes it a step further and protects the HUMAN RIGHTS of all people within our borders with The Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. Some of the Rights only apply to Citizens but some, including the right to life, liberty and security of person apply to EVERYONE physically present in Canada. I can guarantee you that there are people, right NOW, who were sponsored as spouses to come to Canada, living in physically and mentally abusive relationships and being threatened with deportation if they don't "tow the line". These people are victims and they don't know any better.

I appreciate joe's outline of how a Canadian should judge their spouse if they are from another country while I DO NOT agree with calling anyone stupid. Yes, we should all have our eyes wide open when going into marriage no matter who we marry. But what do you say in the case of arranged marriages where the couple may have only met on their wedding day? For some cultures, this is an ancient and accepted tradition. While it might seem foreign to me, I'm in no position to judge because it's not my culture. Should we outlaw these because they don't meet the criteria?

I guess what I'm saying here is that there is NO SIMPLE answer to this. YES, marriage is the "easiest" way to get into Canada (although it didn't feel easy when I brought my husband) but what they mean is the sponsored spouse/partner does NOT have to be educated, speak the language, have skilled work experience, be as healthy as economic applicants, or have settlement funds. Therefore, it's definitely "easier".

I really doubt that Canada is going to change the law to make the PR visa have "conditions". What I think they are going to do is make it that much more difficult to prove genuiness at the outset, in the application phase. That's just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong because it would make a process that already feels ENDLESS to those involved, that much longer and more difficult.