Marriage of convenience

[reegs]

Interesting post.

In almost all cases, it would be nearly impossible to prove marriage fraud once the PR has been given. After all, every effort was made to prepare the application in order to ensure that the marriage seemed genuine.

Unless the marriage is proven to be a fraud beyond any doubt (which I think is almost always impossible), or there is some concern about national security, the foreigner should be able to stay in Canada (in my opinion). It pains me to say that, because I know how horrible I would feel in that situation, but I think the government should be out of the equation once the PR is given. After that, it's the sponsor's responsibility.

Most marriages are genuine and the waiting times are already very long in comparison to other countries. In the end, the responsibility rests on the shoulders of the sponsor. Maybe instead of making PR applications more difficult, CIC could offer more information and warnings to would-be sponsors about the risks and potentional consequences of bringing someone to Canada--especially for people sponsoring spouses from areas with high instances of reported marriage fraud. Rather than saying "Canadians must be careful", they might offer more explicit advice and warning signs... maybe they already do, I'm not sure.

 

[rjessome]

Many Canadian embassy websites have "cautions" about marrying someone from another country but they really can't go right out and say "Don't marry someone from XXX because you are likely to be duped!" It would be kinda funny but really, when you are "in love" would you listen?

Interesting point made in the article.

Hundreds of fraudulent marriages take place every year. Citizenship and Immigration Canada acknowledges roughly 1,000 such cases are reported annually. In 2009, nearly 45,000 people immigrated to Canada as spouses.

That is a little more than 2%. So most marriages are genuine. But it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Those of us in happy, genuine marriages are NOT trying to get press.

I really don't know how I would feel about the spouse losing their PR if I were in that situation. Think about having to re-pay 3 years worth of welfare. :'( That would bankrupt me! And I'd probably be bitter too.

Very thankful that I'm not in that situation but I definitely feel for those who are. They are asking that the government uphold the law. But the government doesn't really know how.

 

[toby]

Let’s leave Joe in peace, and get back to the original article, for a minute. The idea of a two-year waiting period before an immigrating spouse may get a PR makes sense.

Currently, CIC (and the Visa Office) must make an “all or nothing” decision about the legitimacy of the marriage. This is very difficult to do, and so the process takes a long time for all of us. The majority of spouses are legitimate, but we all must suffer through a prolonged PR process because CIC is trying to weed out the few scammers. Letting a scammer into Canada is a serious matter. Once in Canada, it seems the scammer is free to stay forever – sometimes on welfare at the Canadian spouse’s expense for three years, and then at the expense of all Canadian taxpayers.

So, let’s institute the two year rule instead of the current PR system. Most scammers would not last in a fake marriage for two full years, I am guessing. But if CIC kept statistics on PR marriages, then Canada could adjust the two-year period of necessary.

Since CIC would not have to determine marriage legitimacy with 99% certainty, CIC would be able to process PR applications more quickly. Sure, CIC should do a few legitimacy checks, but they need not be so suspicious, knowing that scammers will be deported if they should not make the two-year period.

If the marriage lasts two years, PR could be granted quickly. If not, then the immigrant spouse must return to the home country. With few exceptions.

There are two problems with the two-year waiting period that I can see.

First: the marriage might have been legitimate at the beginning, but fell apart for natural causes (as do many marriages between Canadians). It might seem harsh that the immigrant spouse should be deported, but what alternative do we have? Surely not the current prolonged PR process.

One option is that Canadian spouse declares under oath that the marriage broke up for natural reasons, but was legitimate in the beginning. That might be a way for legitimate immigrant spouses to remain in Canada. Presumably the Canadian spouse would not make such a declaration for a scammer. And surely the other countries mentioned in the article, that have waiting periods, have some wisdom to offer Canada on the subject.

The second problem is that the immigrant spouse might be vulnerable to an abusive Canadian spouse – because he/she might feel compelled to stay with the abusive Canadian spouse for the two years.

This situation is unfortunate, but on whose head must this misfortune fall? On the heads of all Canadian spouses sponsoring a PR spouse, who must therefore endure the current lengthy PR process if the two-year rule is not implemented? Remember, if a spouse is free to leave the marriage after landing in Canada, this leaves the way open for scammers and we’re back to the PR process we have now.



Or should the misfortune fall on the head of the immigrant spouse who made a bad marriage decision (even if unknowingly at the time), and now must return to the home country? When I think about that, it seems to me that this is a rightful course of action – because a PR spouse‘s main motivation is supposed to be living with his/her Canadian spouse, and not just getting a Canada visa. So, if the Canadian spouse proves to be abusive, the main (supposed) motive for coming to Canada is gone, and so returning to the home country is logical.

On balance, a two-year waiting period makes good sense … to me.

 

[iarblue]

The only thing they are saying is that women in general who are required to stay in a relationship for two years,who are being abused because she has left everything behind,and has nothing to go back to.How do you tell her you must stay in that relationship or get out of Canada???
So she stays in the relationship where the guys kicks the crap out of her,because if she dont stay in that relationship for 2 years has to leave Canada.How do we as Canadians say that would be alright with us?


I think in most ways Canadian immigration is doing all they can to weed out the bad,but sometimes good ones get caught in the crossfire.And PMM and rjessome are right we cant espect immigration to sit on all files to see how its going after the approval.If you are tricked into a bad situation get out report it and move on their is nothing else you can do.

And east coast girl was not complaining about the artical she was complaing about the last quote from Joe.

That all said,just do your own thing help others and dont worry about what happens after they are approved, after that it is the sponsor and the applicant that need to worry about what happens after.And for the most part this is not Canada we dont judge on race,color,culture,or where a person was raised.For those that do SHAME.

 

[heatherusa]

On balance, a two-year waiting period makes good sense ... to me.

My residency in the United States was a Conditional Permanent Residency that I had to apply to have the conditions removed from after a period of time. Because the PR was issued based on marriage, I had to meet requirements based on marriage when I applied to have the conditions removed. That was no problem for me because our marriage was real and so at the end of the conditional period we were still together (and still are). If a marriage is real then a condition on the Visa shouldnt be a big deal - the only problem was that it cost more money, but that is the way it goes.

just to add one more thing... we met on the Internet, chatted on the computer and had many phone calls for a while before ever meeting in person. And if I hadnt felt genuine emotions for my husband before ever meeting face to face, I wouldnt have bothered meeting face to face - it would have been a waste of time.

 

[reegs]

Yeah, 3 years of welfare payments would be terrible... not to mention the blow to one's pride and self-esteem. That would be a tough one to ever get over completely.

I'm sure there have been cases where the government has upheld the law and deported a fraudulent spouse, but it's such a difficult thing to demonstrate.

I mean, only 2% of all PRs get reported as fraudulent marriages. How many of those do you think are clear cut cases of people marrying, coming to Canada, and splitting like a week later? I suspect the majority are a little more in the grey zone. Probably more along the lines of coming to Canada, not being so in love with the spouse after all, and leaving 6-12 months later. Can that really be considered fraud? Even if it can, it's impossible to prove.

Then again, maybe there are many more cases of unreported marriage fraud.

I doubt that anyone completely in love would really listen to warnings from anyone, I know I probably wouldn't. But other than educate sponsors I don't know what else could be done.

The two year probationary period would be good in some cases, but it seriously compromises the PR spouse's situation and puts them at risk of abuse.

On the other hand, I can't imagine a stricter PR application process. I would prefer the 2% risk and current processing times than have 1.5% risk and far longer processing times. All things considered, I think the system works well enough to be left alone.

 

[Cdagal]

I agree with HeatherUSA..I highly doubt I would have travelled to the other side of the planet to meet my now husband if I hadn't had strong feelings for him before I went. Of course, meeting in person gave our feelings validity, but 6 months of talking through the night on the phone and sharing in each others experiences, history and dreams are bound to create something more than just meeting in a bar over drinks would have To suggest that this way of meeting is any less real to the people involved is ridiculous..he is my best friend.

I am sure that Canadians marrying Canadians occasionally find that their spouse is not who they expected as well. It is not exclusive to those seeking to immigrate, all relationships are full of uncertainty and risk.

 

[psionator]

Hey Allison, we're all here to help each other out. I think people who say "screw the system" should really themselves be "screwed". They are so dumb to make these decisions of marrying someone overseas without going through the process of getting to know each other. and then they blame our "system".

System is good and process is well maintained. Sponsors needs to be more careful when going overseas for 2 week vacation and then falling in love with the hotel-made or the room cleaning boys and girls. You think these marriages will last?

I know many cases on this forum where poor innocent Canadian women have been scammed and used by their spouses after coming to Canada from overseas. I won't name those countries because you can already see my rating is down to -45 and growing....lol

Here's the issue for the innocent, rather stupid Canadians when they fall in love with their spouses over the internet.
1) they do NOT speak same language
2) spouse overseas knows little English or not at all
3) no communication with spouse's family overseas, only husband wife aint enough for this marriage game
4) spouses not having any education on western canadian culture
5) sponsors not knowing their spouses family culture relgious values
6) sponsors not giving enough time to understand each other and their cultures
7) sponsors not knowing differences between two religions
8) sponsors just being so desperate to bring someone new to their life from overseas, forgetting about their own back-yard sales (u can find plenty at bars clubs)
9) sponsors not consulting with their families and friends before importing a husband from overseas
10) this one is funny, sponsors and applicants claiming to have been fallen in love before even seeing each other in person

I strongly beleive that Canada should also give abour 12 to 24 months to the applicants before they can receive their PR card in hand. This way we can clear out a lot of rats and cockroaches.

I apologize to anyone if I might have offended anyone, but now it is getting really sad to see my fellow Canadians having to go through yet another stupid game.....

Thanks

I strongly agree..

 

[joecreosta]

dear friends, i am at the airport flying from Toronto to Vancouver for a 2 weeks vacation with some family friends. I am reading some responses to this post but cannot reply to all of them so please wait until I get to my hotel at the Vancouver Islands just reading a few comments, please people do not judge me. I am simply posting the facts collected by the Canadian Immigration board and private agencies working for the immigration. Richard Kirkland is a very famous immigration lawyer from the west coast and sure knows more than we do. he won't be posting numbers out of his hat.

yusuf

 

[lonelycanadianwifey]

WOW arument central ....lol...

Its def a intresting convo when you bring UP SCAMMERS....everyones quick to be insulted BUT WHY .....All i know is truth often hurts .....I have learned not to let it hurt Becuase truth is truth ...


I have a very lengthly relationship with my Jamaican Spouse who is now a PR BUT rest assured people made sure they judged me..Often time the rumors was i met him on the resort ...NOT!!! and 3 weeks later married him ...WTF !!! Like i would never do something like that ...NEVER ...I met him here in canada ...But just because of a few woman who didnt have there ducks all in a row (lol) go over to Jamaica and become super duper retards and get scammed for things like money right down to buying a buisness or car..I am like that NO SAH!!

You have to pick the sense outta non sense ...I sure wouldnt be sending all my hard earned dollars over western Union to a man i barely know what a joke let alone to my husband he is in fit condition able and willing so if he wants to eat he need to get er done and not to metion i have the kid so he better be sending me money ..(which he did).......Lord if i can work so can you ...Like come on... people get treated the way they allow people to treat them. And that is the truth ...

And about sponsorship its a risk i have taken ...I lived with my spouse for years before we got married ..and before we put in thr papers...I made a decision, based on our past ..and our children ...After a 15 month long immigration battle the only thing that pissed me off the most was loosing valuble family time together ...watching our daughter cry every night pleading me to have daddy come home .

RISK RISK RISK that is what this is all about for everyone ....No ones diffrent no ones special ....But they are lucky if they can truly find there soul mate that way ....Some can enver do that even in there own country ...So to get upset at the common stereotype only justifies one thing here .. that it truly scares people and anyone can understand that ..I try not to think of the person i married decieving me in that way ...it would be very painful after it all was said and done ..I wouldnt wish that on anyone ..I can repct that most people would rather have friends and family just be thrilled and happy for them ,because that is what you are BUT unfortuatly immigration fraud exist and people have there opinions...And there are more bad than good these days ...

All you can do is follow your hearts and pray you have made the right decisions .I have thus done that and adapted the thought of what will be will be ...!!! We have been married for 2 and half years been together for 7...So far sooo good *wink*




Hope you all live happily ..

 

[heatherusa]

WOW arument central ....lol...

Its def a intresting convo when you bring UP SCAMMERS....everyones quick to be insulted BUT WHY .....All i know is truth often hurts .....I have learned not to let it hurt Becuase truth is truth ...

I agree, the truth hurts... people in this thread arent upset about the truth that there are scammers in the world, they are upset about generalizations made (again) about certain people (Canadian women).

I have a very lengthly relationship with my Jamaican Spouse who is now a PR BUT rest assured people made sure they judged me..Often time the rumors was i met him on the resort ...NOT!!! and 3 weeks later married him ...WTF !!! Like i would never do something like that ...NEVER ...

People made generalizations about your relationship and they judged you.... my question is - Did you set them straight or just let them keep making incorrect assumptions about you and your relationship?

Truth - there are scammers

Incorrect - the generalization that all women who fall for lies are "stupid Canadian women"

 

[heatherusa]

dear friends, i am at the airport flying from Toronto to Vancouver for a 2 weeks vacation with some family friends. I am reading some responses to this post but cannot reply to all of them so please wait until I get to my hotel at the Vancouver Islands just reading a few comments, please people do not judge me. I am simply posting the facts collected by the Canadian Immigration board and private agencies working for the immigration. Richard Kirkland is a very famous immigration lawyer from the west coast and sure knows more than we do. he won't be posting numbers out of his hat.

yusuf

No one judged your FACTS Joe.

 

[lonelycanadianwifey]

No there gunna talk and they are gunna say alot of things about us NO MATTER WHAT....Thats my attitude...

All that matter is my family in jamaica and in canada who respect and know us for us ...WHo cares about everyone else ...All that is ...is waisted energy to me i am a mother a wife a sister a daughter a freind i have more important things to do than to worry about JOE SAM and JOHN who think what ever it is they think!!!

And plus i dont talk about my buisness so hence why people make up what they want to !! ;D ;D

 

[heatherusa]

No there gunna talk ....Thats my additude...

And plus i dont talk about my buisness so hence why people make up what they want to !!

How do people ever learn to correct bad assumptions if they arent exposed to the truth? They are going to talk one way or the other, thats for sure, and I think that is awesome that you didnt let it bother you.

 

[lonelycanadianwifey]

Heattherusa...

Thanks ;D

stereotypes are out there and will never parish ...So why fight them ...Its just wasted energy ....I wouldnt matter if i told this particular woman my husband was a good man she thinks other wise ...always will her freind was used by a jamaican for several years NOT for immigration BUT for money while he lived in jamacia ....Pretty much took out her lifes savings ...I come from a mixed Jamaican family and have been going to Jamaica all my life ...I dont need her or anyone else to tell me anything ..I have made my own opinions in life FROM EXPIRIENCE...Her expirience is her own ...I on the other hand choose not to live in a box everyday ...surrounded by negetive emotion ..So in conclusion i'd rather just show people in the end ..ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....And by jesus my husbands actions do speak ....so what i say is LET THEM SEE ..Write it down take a picture ..I dont give a F*CK!!!
what can you do.....opinions are like a$$holes ....everyone has one!!!! lol