I feel like to sue the Canadian Embassy and Government...

[gsize]

I understand what you are saying and there are provisions for accountability. Maybe they aren't enough. I would be OK with any PR being conditional for up to 5 years.

so what happens if the marriage breaks up after 3 years. ? After all, 60 % of marriages break up. Do they need to leave ? Maybe it was an abusive relationship

 

[Rob_TO]

I understand what you are saying and there are provisions for accountability. Maybe they aren't enough. I would be OK with any PR being conditional for up to 5 years.

Definitely think more accountability is needed. Some of the stories you hear are heartbreaking and from the way people here explain it, some VOs really need to be fired (though that's practically impossible since its a government job). IMO there should be a process where before an application is rejected based on the decision of 1 VO, it goes to a quick management review or advisory panel or something for a final review of the evidence and if the VO is out of line with the rejection.

Regarding the conditional PRs, you have to be careful also as if the conditional status is too long the applicant is kind of held hostage to the sponsor, and they may be forced to stay in a marriage they don't want to just for PR purposes. There are lots of cases i'm sure where people with genuine loving relationships get approved for PR, and then due to any number of reasons the relationship breaks down and they get divorced. Many people in this situation deserve to keep their PR status even after separating and not deported back to their original country. IMO 2 years is a good amount... not too short and not too long.

 

[Dr Eng X]

To the OP about litigating the government. I wouldn't be opposed to that as a class action suit seeing as they have almost doubled the processing times for family class applications. This could be deemed as imposing an intentional hardship. As applications can be processed in 6 months or less government actions to reduce staff as a cost savings measure cannot be deemed appropriate since the applicants pay for the service and expect the process to be expedient.

I'm sure some others have flagged this but I can't personally let this go by.

The Canadian Bill of Rights (preamble):

"The Parliament of Canada, affirming that the Canadian Nation is founded upon principles that acknowledge the supremacy of God, the dignity and worth of the human person and the position of the family in a society of free men and free institutions;

Affirming also that men and institutions remain free only when freedom is founded upon respect for moral and spiritual values and the rule of law;

And being desirous of enshrining these principles and the human rights and fundamental freedoms derived from them, in a Bill of Rights which shall reflect the respect of Parliament for its constitutional authority and which shall ensure the protection of these rights and freedoms in Canada:"

Immigration and Refugee Protection Act:

"(d) to see that families are reunited in Canada;"

We have rights as Canadians to pursue our own happiness in whatever way we see fit under the laws of the land. Marrying whoever we wish is a fundamental right. Immigration is a procedure under family reunification not a stand alone application.

CIC should not be in the business of qualifying the depth and breadth of "love" in any relationship. All they should be doing is making sure the requested documents to support the application are valid.

Excellent and very well said ++++ for you

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

so what happens if the marriage breaks up after 3 years. ? After all, 60 % of marriages break up. Do they need to leave ? Maybe it was an abusive relationship

I think that is something that both parties have to be aware of. I have no issue with an abuser being deported. If the abuser is the sponsoring applicant then the sponsored person just goes to the police.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Definitely think more accountability is needed. Some of the stories you hear are heartbreaking and from the way people here explain it, some VOs really need to be fired (though that's practically impossible since its a government job). IMO there should be a process where before an application is rejected based on the decision of 1 VO, it goes to a quick management review or advisory panel or something for a final review of the evidence and if the VO is out of line with the rejection.

I think that would just increase the level of middle management bureacracy. There is never any guarantee that management would be any less corruptable. A VO's job is to process the information not be a clairvoyant. Add the accountability to the back end with a 5 year probationary period and you will see the wheat separate from the chaff pretty quickly.

Regarding the conditional PRs, you have to be careful also as if the conditional status is too long the applicant is kind of held hostage to the sponsor, and they may be forced to stay in a marriage they don't want to just for PR purposes. There are lots of cases i'm sure where people with genuine loving relationships get approved for PR, and then due to any number of reasons the relationship breaks down and they get divorced. Many people in this situation deserve to keep their PR status even after separating and not deported back to their original country. IMO 2 years is a good amount... not too short and not too long.

I'm not a fan of the temp visa myself. Just adds another screening procedure. The proof of a valid marriage comes with longevity.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Interesting question Rob. Honestly, I think they probably should increase the fees if they can't currently handle the volume of applications. Maybe not $4000 dollars, but I would certainly have been happy to pay more for the peace of mind that my application will be seen in a timely fashion. Perhaps a 2 tier system like the US has?

They can't increase the fees by law. The fee for service in Canada is governed by the Financial Administration Act, which states a fee for service can't be be more that then the cost of that service. That is why the RPRF was dropped from $950 to $490

 

[DGT]

Hi


They can't increase the fees by law. The fee for service in Canada is governed by the Financial Administration Act, which states a fee for service can't be be more that then the cost of that service. That is why the RPRF was dropped from $950 to $490

I understand that PMM. But what we're suggesting is hiring more VO's to process applications faster. Therefore, the cost of that service would go up relative to the fee.

 

[VanSquirrel]

Lol it's interesting how Dani has long since abandoned this thread and it's totally morphed into something else.

 

[PMM]

Hi

I understand that PMM. But what we're suggesting is hiring more VO's to process applications faster. Therefore, the cost of that service would go up relative to the fee.

Except that the fees can't reflect what it costs to station a VO overseas. An FS3 makes $104K per year. There is a hardship posting allowance overseas Accra is level 4, so an additional $13K Housing Allowance $2K per month, Post living allowance $13K for food costs imports, then there is the entitlement to 1 return to Canada in J class per year. There is also an allowance for servants. So it is not cheap.

 

[Maddants]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I believe the conclusions made regarding depression are based on your own comments. I have read your posts and found several which you have stated you are depressed and one which you even mentioned killing yourself. To come to the conclusion of depression is easy enough, by your own words.

You should consider yourself blessed that you are living with him. You have his companionship daily, his hugs, his strength, support and so on.

I have not seen my husband in a over a year.

Count your blessing, as small as they may seem. You are luckier than some.

this is true talk for sure........she should be happy that she can see her hubby more than other like me and you MadeinCanada

 

[mameelynn]

Hi


Except that the fees can't reflect what it costs to station a VO overseas. An FS3 makes $104K per year. There is a hardship posting allowance overseas Accra is level 4, so an additional $13K Housing Allowance $2K per month, Post living allowance $13K for food costs imports, then there is the entitlement to 1 return to Canada in J class per year. There is also an allowance for servants. So it is not cheap.

Yeah it would cost a whole lot less to for them to find some way to bring technology into the picture... If we are able to maintain our relationships through Skype why can't CIC use that to do interviews? then they could just have someone in Canada (maybe working weird hours) that they would pay a lot less! CIC is really messed up as it is! The facts that there isn't any rhyme or reason as to why two basically identical applications can take huge discrepancies between how long it takes to get COPR isn't expectable!! Also all this talk about raising costs and how "maybe if the fees were higher they would be faster" I think is crap!! I would like to see how much time hands on time there is for all of our files. I don't think it is really all that much and if it is taking so much hands on time I wonder how much of it is the fact that they treat all of us as guilty till we prove our relationships are genuine and because of this people are sending in boxes of proof because they are terrified of getting denied! I think the best way to stop fraud would be to harshly punish proven frauds! There is story after story of these people that apply, get approval and then days after the spouse lands they run off and CIC does NOTHING about getting these frauds out!

 

[Fencesitter]

Canada's government is already too big. I don't want to see it get bigger just to chase after fraudsters. This would raise taxes and be unfair to regular Canadians who never need CIC services, at least not to the extent that immigrants do.

Of course there is always a better way to do things, but it seems CIC, as any government agency, is incapable.

I say privatize the whole thing...

FS

 

[~*Dani*~]

at first, when I received the refusal news.. my husband and I thought..why? and felt that nothing wrong with us then I came in this discussion board and you guys say its red flags, etc.

I did done research on this thats why I came in this discussion board.


I am asking you guys to be NICE!

 

[DGT]

Hi


Except that the fees can't reflect what it costs to station a VO overseas. An FS3 makes $104K per year. There is a hardship posting allowance overseas Accra is level 4, so an additional $13K Housing Allowance $2K per month, Post living allowance $13K for food costs imports, then there is the entitlement to 1 return to Canada in J class per year. There is also an allowance for servants. So it is not cheap.

I also didn't say it was cheap. I understand that the cost of maintaining VO's abroad is expensive (my uncle is the head of the visa section for the UK in Nigeria). However, I do struggle to understand why and how the Canadian process takes so long. Having said that, I have found the experience of applying and processing for my residence in Canada, to be much more fair and "user-friendly". I don't wanna be misconstrued as some raging ball of anger over the processing time. I'm just saying that hypothetically, I think the balance of cost of service could be skewed more on the cost side. Other nations with similar quotas can do it.

 

[Rob_TO]

I think that would just increase the level of middle management bureacracy. There is never any guarantee that management would be any less corruptable. A VO's job is to process the information not be a clairvoyant. Add the accountability to the back end with a 5 year probationary period and you will see the wheat separate from the chaff pretty quickly.

I don't think "corruptible" is the right word, as that indicates they are receiving financial kickbacks or something for denying applications. I do think there could be a kind of god-complex with a VO, which is seen in any position where you have complete control over someone's future. Also i'm not sure if VOs need to meet certain quotas of applications denied per month/year, to give an appearance they are doing a good job screening out the frauds.

Often when rejected cases go to appeal, the judge rules favorably with the applicant and says the VO made mistakes or errors in judgement. This may have to do simply with a second set of eyes looking at the info from a different view. This is what im suggesting happens automatically before any applicant is rejected (but to a much smaller extent than appeal process). Of course no guarantees it would result in more legitimate couples making it through, just an idea.

I'm not a fan of the temp visa myself. Just adds another screening procedure. The proof of a valid marriage comes with longevity.

There are tons of genuine marriages between Canadian citizens that end in divorce after less than 5 years. It doesn't make the original marriage or original feelings of the couple any less valid.

As i said, make the "conditional" time too long, and it holds the applicants hostage to their sponsors for fear of losing their PR.