I feel like to sue the Canadian Embassy and Government...

[Rob_TO]

The spousal/children target for 2011 was 45,500 to 48,600. The applications accepted were 41,253. It seems they had a long way to go to meet their "quota".

They lump the "other" category into this target as well, so for 2011 your total would be 42,347.
For some reason the numbers from Open Data government stat tracking site show differently though. Here the 2011 total number of people passed under this category was 45,277. Perhaps there's some overlap from passing and issuing a COPR, to actually landing in Canada.

http://www.data.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=5175A6F0-1&xsl=datacataloguerecord&metaxsl=datacataloguerecord&formid=427337D0-7C36-4FED-8428-C6A63F8C19B3

The spousal/children target for 2012 was 44,000. I have not seen any 2012 final numbers but it would be interesting to compare.

There are numbers from Oct 1, 2011 - Sept 31, 2012. Based on this there were 8,928 people rejected, and 44,170 COPRs issued. Seems to be right in line again with CIC targets.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Its not a conspiracy theory, it's stated on the CIC website. Just call it "target" and not "quota": http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/notice-levels2013.asp
For each range, CIC also sets an admissions target. The work of CIC's visa processing network is based on the admissions target so that admissions fall within the planning range.

The target for spouse/partner/children class for 2013, is 48,300 people. You can bet rejection rates will be expected that will meet this target. In the past, family class used to make up a much higher percent of the 250K immigrants to Canada each year so approval rates were higher overall. As Canada started targeting the economic class more and reducing family class, it's no surprise VOs started rejecting more and more applications.

You have further proved my point. Yes its much easier to just approve an app. So what do you think would happen if a VO went an entire year without rejecting a single app? Obviously they would get a severe investigation into their work to see if they are competent. VOs MUST reject apps at a certain level, to be considered doing their job. And i wouldn't be surprised if VOs reject the occasional app they would otherwise approve, just for the sake of keeping up their rejection level and showing they are doing their job properly. No specific hard quota, but a "target" nonetheless that their performance review would be based on. This isn't conspiracy theory, it's common sense.

Hence corruptible.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hence corruptible.

People doing their job as instructed is not corrupt.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

People doing their job as instructed is not corrupt.

So how many rejections is enough to indicate they are doing their jobs? 5....10....1000? The fact that they do not process based solely on the merit of the application alone means the intergrity of the system is corrupted by the individual "will" of the VO. Rejections being overturned in appeal is evidence enough to reveal the arbitrary nature of the decision process.

 

[Rob_TO]

So how many rejections is enough to indicate they are doing their jobs? 5....10....1000? The fact that they do not process based solely on the merit of the application alone means the intergrity of the system is corrupted by the individual "will" of the VO. Rejections being overturned in appeal is evidence enough to reveal the arbitrary nature of the decision process.

Let me put it this way... a few posts ago you stated you had a friend who used to be a VO and was instructed to refuse a certain % of applications. If asked to give a simple recommendation of this person for a new job... would you simply say she was corrupt in this job? Would you call a cop issuing a few more tickets at the end of the month that they would normally let slide, corrupt? Now if I personally didn't like someone who had an app in, and paid the VO $1000 cash to refuse that app, THAT would be corruption at its finest.

If you are corrupt in a public sector job, it would be a fireable offense and could possibly lead to criminal charges. Call the whole system corrupt if you want, but not the individual VO who is simply following guidelines from the CIC and their managers.

Its a fact that CIC sets targets for family class every year, and instructs individual visa offices to aim for certain targets so CIC can meet that number as a whole. If you think this is a corrupt system, so be it. Your beef should start with whoever runs the CIC then, and not the individual VOs.

 

[gsize]

in my case. The VO has or had a high number of rejections (I have heard this from several sources) They were reprimanded about this many times but still continues in their job ! Call it what you want....I call it disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :-X

 

[Rob_TO]

in my case. The VO has or had a high number of rejections (I have heard this from several sources) They were reprimanded about this many times but still continues in their job ! Call it what you want....I call it disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :-X

It sounds like for this VO, their tolerance for red flags in an app is pretty low. Obviously it's not corrupt since they are gaining nothing from doing this, and as you said actually got reprimanded.

Perhaps its a god complex or something, who knows. Easiest way to say it is they are simply bad at their job. Unfortunately this being the government, firing them is practically impossible.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Let me put it this way... a few posts ago you stated you had a friend who used to be a VO and was instructed to refuse a certain % of applications. If asked to give a simple recommendation of this person for a new job... would you simply say she was corrupt in this job? Would you call a cop issuing a few more tickets at the end of the month that they would normally let slide, corrupt? Now if I personally didn't like someone who had an app in, and paid the VO $1000 cash to refuse that app, THAT would be corruption at its finest.

If you are corrupt in a public sector job, it would be a fireable offense and could possibly lead to criminal charges. Call the whole system corrupt if you want, but not the individual VO who is simply following guidelines from the CIC and their managers.

Its a fact that CIC sets targets for family class every year, and instructs individual visa offices to aim for certain targets so CIC can meet that number as a whole. If you think this is a corrupt system, so be it. Your beef should start with whoever runs the CIC then, and not the individual VOs.

My comment was that the system is corruptible. Meaning that in its design is the opportunity for people to make decisions for reasons other than the merit of any application. Your definition of "corrupt" is far too narrow. Call it "rotten" or "dishonest". These practices aren't disclosed to the public and my understanding is that there is no direct instruction to reject applications to meet a "quota" there is only the expectation that rejections must happen as a matter of course.
What follows is an internal economy between the workers and management. Those workers that strictly follow the directions of supervisors and managers find themselves the benefit of a more flexible work environment maybe. This is not uncommon in any business.

My friend lasted 4 years and then quit. The stress of the job and having to deny applications/sit through interviews etc. was too much for her.

 

[mikeymyke]

I don't know if Rabat is considered a corrupt VO or anything, as they have a pretty high acceptance rate:

Rabat 1,067 120 90% 1,028

(# accepted) (# refused) (% acceptance) (total # visas issued)

 

[Rob_TO]

My friend lasted 4 years and then quit. The stress of the job and having to deny applications/sit through interviews etc. was too much for her.

I can completely see how this would be true for many VOs. If it was me, I don't think I could reject an application that in my heart I really thought was genuine. Or if i did it would stick with me for a while. There must be lots of new VOs fresh on the job that just want to see families reunited and want to approve every application they process.

But i can also see how CIC has a tough job to try and weed out the frauds and marriages-of-convenience, and how they need a noticeable rejection rate to keep up appearances to Canadians that they are doing their job at protecting our country, and to potential frauds that they will have a tough time scamming their way into Canada.

Unfortunately it probably turns out that the long time VOs with the most experience who don't mind all the rejections, are probably the most cold-hearted. Being "nice" seems to be a liability in this field.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

I can completely see how this would be true for many VOs. If it was me, I don't think I could reject an application that in my heart I really thought was genuine. Or if i did it would stick with me for a while. There must be lots of new VOs fresh on the job that just want to see families reunited and want to approve every application they process.

But i can also see how CIC has a tough job to try and weed out the frauds and marriages-of-convenience, and how they need a noticeable rejection rate to keep up appearances to Canadians that they are doing their job at protecting our country, and to potential frauds that they will have a tough time scamming their way into Canada.

Unfortunately it probably turns out that the long time VOs with the most experience who don't mind all the rejections, are probably the most cold-hearted. Being "nice" seems to be a liability in this field.

Thats because you are a person with integrity.

I really have a hard time believing that MOC are in the majority of applications but all applications are treated as potential MOC's. We have seen the processing time grossly inflate over the last year that the Conservatives have had their majority government not to mention what they have done to those applying under skilled workers.

 

[gsize]

Thats because you are a person with integrity.

I really have a hard time believing that MOC are in the majority of applications but all applications are treated as potential MOC's. We have seen the processing time grossly inflate over the last year that the Conservatives have had their majority government not to mention what they have done to those applying under skilled workers.

I would have to agree with you. The only conclusion I can make is that the waiting times are this bad due to cutbacks.

We need transparency !!

 

[Ttcdfolk]

What is with people wanting to sue the government, come on try doing that where I am, (China) and they would laugh you out of court.

 

[sunsun]

You can't compare Apple to Orange.

 

[steerpike]

What is with people wanting to sue the government, come on try doing that where I am, (China) and they would laugh you out of court.

They also laugh at you if you stop to help an injured child, or don't want poison in your babys milk. Theres a reason so many Chinese are fleeing to Canada.