How does CIC tell if a relationship is real or fake

[Leopold_31]

My boyfriend and I are camera shy so we wouldn't have sent many pictures if it wasn't for his mom, who loves photographing us.
But throughout the 13 months we lived together, we didn't think about "doing things for CIC", so I didn't save ALL our chat history and e-mails, we didn't save the receipts when we bought dishware, flat iron, vacuum cleaner, etc. for the apartment, we were living together anyway and enjoying each other's company was our priority seeing that we knew I'd have to go back to Japan sooner or later (unfortunately, sooner than we expected).
We traveled to Calgary last August, we spent almost every weekend at his parent's, I've met his co-workers, we used to hang out with his friends every week, we've shared so many precious moments that we didn't want to waste by "posting on the Internet"... But we couldn't prove that, because I didn't come to Canada hoping to immigrate, with a list of "Proofs of Relationship" from the CIC website. I guess we were careless.
I am sad we didn't have as much evidence we should... :-[ But honestly, if I had saved and printed every single text, wouldn't that be suspicious too?
They say every evidence helps, but how much is too much?

I printed about 3 pages of chat logs for every month with different dates to show that we have regular contact. Same for Skype.
Also got phone calls logs.
I think printing all the pages is crazy, imagine CIC recieving 1000s of pages. No way they are gonna look through all of them.

 

[keesio]

I printed about 3 pages of chat logs for every month with different dates to show that we have regular contact. Same for Skype.
Also got phone calls logs.
I think printing all the pages is crazy, imagine CIC recieving 1000s of pages. No way they are gonna look through all of them.

I hear it actually bogs them down because they need to scan all documents that are sent to them into the system. I guess that means they need to sit there and scan 1000s of documents. I sent about 5 pages of skype logs.

 

[needhimback]

Old man with very young looking woman, non attractive male with a supermodel, lack of emotion on faces, lack of physical contact in pictures, to name a few.
[/quote

Mike why are you always so negative when I read your replys all over this forum ??????? have a great day!]

 

[steerpike]

How do you know that? And why not?

They just need to say its an arranged marriage. Then they dont need to provide any proof of a relationship, and dont need to prove that they know each other, love each other, or answer any intimate questions. They dont have to show their private love letters, photos or anything. All they need to do is show they come from a culture that allows arranged marriages they are done. They can say at the interview "i dont know anything about that person, i dont love him/her, and I only married him/her because my parents wanted to me" and they will be approved and welcomed with open arms.

Meanwhile, white-skinned people are put thru the grind. They have to prove everything and will be questioned on anything and everything. And anything the VO thinks is suspicious will be a red flag. They are required to conform to the VOs personal idea of what romantic love and marriage is like.

 

[keesio]

They just need to say its an arranged marriage. Then they dont need to provide any proof of a relationship, and dont need to prove that they know each other, love each other, or answer any intimate questions. They dont have to show their private love letters, photos or anything. All they need to do is show they come from a culture that allows arranged marriages they are done. They can say at the interview "i dont know anything about that person, i dont love him/her, and I only married him/her because my parents wanted to me" and they will be approved and welcomed with open arms.

Meanwhile, white-skinned people are put thru the grind. They have to prove everything and will be questioned on anything and everything. And anything the VO thinks is suspicious will be a red flag. They are required to conform to the VOs personal idea of what romantic love and marriage is like.

But they get scrutinized in ways that people from western countries would not. For example, it is suspicious if you do not have a big wedding in those countries you alluded. If you are from the west, you can have a tiny wedding, even a "city hall" type wedding, and it is not a big deal. But if it is an Indian wedding, harder to get away with that. Ever see the relationship proof photo requirements for someone who got married in Pakistan? Very detailed and strict. My American wife's requirements were nowhere near as strict. Also they will give you a harder time for interfaith marriages, looking at it with suspicion while in the west, not as big a deal. My wedding was interfaith and no problem at all.

And you mentioned skin colour ("white-skinned") but it is not really race but more regional. My wife and I are both from the US and we had to submit proof like anyone from the US about our proof of relationship. But we are both of asian decent, not "white-skinned"

 

[steerpike]

And you mentioned skin colour ("white-skinned") but it is not really race but more regional. My wife and I are both from the US and we had to submit proof like anyone from the US about our proof of relationship. But we are both of asian decent, not "white-skinned"

The article we are talking about specifically suggests CIC is using the immigration system to "keep canada white" canada. That is the words used in the article.

“The system allows racial biases to creep in the selection process. They could use their authority to put it bluntly and crudely, to keep Canada white,” Satzewich noted

That is what the article says and it is an absolute lie. Brown-skinned people are given an easier time.

A small wedding may be acceptable in the west, but CIC still takes a dim view of it. Especially if both sets of parents do not attend.

I really dont think there is one shred of evidence that CIC is doing anything AT ALL to "whiten" Canada. In my opinion, the process is much easier and less intrusive for brown-skinned people, especially those from Pakistan and India. I think the system is skewed in their favour.

 

[Betina]

They just need to say its an arranged marriage. Then they dont need to provide any proof of a relationship, and dont need to prove that they know each other, love each other, or answer any intimate questions. They dont have to show their private love letters, photos or anything. All they need to do is show they come from a culture that allows arranged marriages they are done. They can say at the interview "i dont know anything about that person, i dont love him/her, and I only married him/her because my parents wanted to me" and they will be approved and welcomed with open arms.

Meanwhile, white-skinned people are put thru the grind. They have to prove everything and will be questioned on anything and everything. And anything the VO thinks is suspicious will be a red flag. They are required to conform to the VOs personal idea of what romantic love and marriage is like.

I find this comment really racist and ignorant.

Just because you don't understand a culture that is very different from yours doesn't mean that your way of life is better than theirs.

If you will take the time to study the problem and not just wallow in your prejudices, you will find that arranged marriages are less likely to end in separation or divorce, because in those cultures marriage is a really serious thing. the thought behind the tradition is that people with greater life experience (parents, elders etc) know best when it comes to relationships and are more likely to chose you a partner with whom you will be compatible.

Me and my husband are what you so ignorantly named a "white-skinned" couple. We met online, didn't have a big wedding or a religious one, only a small city hall ceremony, his only living relative - his brother - did not attend, haven't included any love letters in the application, not even emails or Facebook chats, were not called in for an interview so didn't have to answer any intimate questions. So nobody put us through any grind and still I've just sent in my passport.

 

[automaton82]

I find this comment really racist and ignorant.

Just because you don't understand a culture that is very different from yours doesn't mean that your way of life is better than theirs.

If you will take the time to study the problem and not just wallow in your prejudices, you will find that arranged marriages are less likely to end in separation or divorce, because in those cultures marriage is a really serious thing. the thought behind the tradition is that people with greater life experience (parents, elders etc) know best when it comes to relationships and are more likely to chose you a partner with whom you will be compatible.

Me and my husband are what you so ignorantly named a "white-skinned" couple. We met online, didn't have a big wedding or a religious one, only a small city hall ceremony, his only living relative - his brother - did not attend, haven't included any love letters in the application, not even emails or Facebook chats, were not called in for an interview so didn't have to answer any intimate questions. So nobody put us through any grind and still I've just sent in my passport.

Aside from his racist slant in his statement, and his abrasive use of "white-skinned" as a term for caucasian, I think the point he was trying to make does have some merit: those who come from a culture with arranged marriages could abuse that fact to avoid being scrutinized, whereas those from cultures which don't have arranged marriages cannot.

 

[steerpike]

I find this comment really racist and ignorant.

Just because you don't understand a culture that is very different from yours doesn't mean that your way of life is better than theirs.

I didnt say better or worse. I said CIC doesnt scrutinize arranged marriages as much. I adamantly disagree with the article that CIC policies "keep Canada white".

If you will take the time to study the problem and not just wallow in your prejudices, you will find that arranged marriages are less likely to end in separation or divorce, because in those cultures marriage is a really serious thing.

They are less likely to end in divorce because there is much more pressure from the family to stay married. Divorce was not common either among westerners when it was frowned apon. Divorce only became common when couples gained the freedom to live their lives how they want to.

Me and my husband are what you so ignorantly named a "white-skinned" couple. We met online, didn't have a big wedding or a religious one, only a small city hall ceremony, his only living relative - his brother - did not attend, haven't included any love letters in the application, not even emails or Facebook chats, were not called in for an interview so didn't have to answer any intimate questions. So nobody put us through any grind and still I've just sent in my passport.

I'm using the terms used in the article. The article says "white". If you have a problem with that then take it up with the newspaper, not with me. And you had an easy time, but in general white people are given much more scruntiny and forced to endure a much more invasive process than people from arranged marriages.

 

[jn0t703]

Interesting article indeed.

My situation is pretty scary: I sponsored my wife, who is 8 years younger and studying in college with a study permit. We have the same language and nationality. Just wonder if having a child together will increase the chance of getting approved. Any ideas?

 

[keesio]

The article we are talking about specifically suggests CIC is using the immigration system to "keep canada white" canada. That is the words used in the article.

That is what the article says and it is an absolute lie. Brown-skinned people are given an easier time.

A small wedding may be acceptable in the west, but CIC still takes a dim view of it. Especially if both sets of parents do not attend.

I really dont think there is one shred of evidence that CIC is doing anything AT ALL to "whiten" Canada. In my opinion, the process is much easier and less intrusive for brown-skinned people, especially those from Pakistan and India. I think the system is skewed in their favour.

I agree that the "keep Canada white" statement is a load of crap.

But I disagree that being "brown-skinned" have it easier. First off, it is your citizenship, not your skin colour, that will dictate how they look at your application. By reading the posts here, looking at different country requirements and looking at timelines, there is no question that applications sent to Islamabad are scrutinized much more than say an application sent to Ottawa for an American citizen (speaking from experience for the latter). Some Americans had no issues with having a small ceremony in the living room of a house with a few friends. Many had small ceremonies like that and did not really have any issues. Absolutely no way that would fly for a wedding in say India or Pakistan.

 

[keesio]

Interesting article indeed.

My situation is pretty scary: I sponsored my wife, who is 8 years younger and studying in college with a study permit. We have the same language and nationality. Just wonder if having a child together will increase the chance of getting approved. Any ideas?

You being 8 years older than your wife is not a big deal. Same language and nationality looks good. Nothing you said looks "scary" so far. In fact, everything you said is positive.

Having a child would help mostly to avoid having a conditional PR for your wife (condition 51) but otherwise it doesn't help much.

 

[Rob_TO]

You being 8 years older than your wife is not a big deal. Same language and nationality looks good. Nothing you said looks "scary" so far. In fact, everything you said is positive.

Having a child would help mostly to avoid having a conditional PR for your wife (condition 51) but otherwise it doesn't help much.

Ya, 8 years isn't much. It's considered "normal" for the husband to be older than wife anyways.

Having a baby does help the application significantly, as it is a great indication that the relationship is real. Very rarely does a fraudulent marriage or marriage of convenience have children involved.

 

[screech339]

While I have respect for those whose marriage was arranged by their parents, using the excuse that they have the lowest divorce rate is a poor use of reasoning to say that arranged marriages are better suited for them. Have you ever considered the other side of the coin? Have you considered that some arranged marriages ended up with couples being very unhappy or very incompatible interests but can't get a divorce due to family honour / traditions.

Some marriages end up in stuck as "unhappy" marriage and they stayed together for the sake of staying married, or for financial reasons, or religious beliefs.

Nowadays the high divorce rates in the western world is usually due to divorce laws that made it easy to do. No fault divorce. No longer happy? Go get a divorce, it not your fault. Other factors to high divorce rate can include not getting to know each other well before making a commitment of marriage.

I also think that due to easy ability to get divorce, marriage has become a less serious matter to a lot of people. One of my ex, asked me why I had reservations about marrying her. I told her that we only dated a short time and I don't really know her as well as I like. Her response was, we can get a divorce if it doesn't work out. I mean, what's the h*ll? That tells me that she really don't see marriage as a serious commitment. Just an convenient arrangement for her.

Some couples don't want to deal the hard work it requires of them to work out their martial problems. So some take the easy route and file for divorce. I am not condoning spousal abuse, that's ground for divorce, in my opinion. But I think the divorce rate would drop if the couples actually work hard to make the marriage work instead of looking for an excuse.

Screech339

 

[keesio]

Having a baby does help the application significantly, as it is a great indication that the relationship is real. Very rarely does a fraudulent marriage or marriage of convenience have children involved.

I heard that this is a mixed bag. If people knew this was true that many couples would try to have a baby to help their application. But I read this in the thread for appeals so maybe it applies to people who have already been rejected and looking for anything to help their appeal.