How does CIC tell if a relationship is real or fake

[steerpike]

I agree that the "keep Canada white" statement is a load of crap.

Wow, this thread is 7 pages long and you are the very first person to say that!

Absolutely no one else here has any problem with the article claiming CIC is trying "keep Canada white". But if i even hint at reversing it, i get called an "ignorant racist".

But I disagree that being "brown-skinned" have it easier. First off, it is your citizenship, not your skin colour, that will dictate how they look at your application. By reading the posts here, looking at different country requirements and looking at timelines,

Do you mean wait times? That could just be due to volume, not extra scrutiny. The fact of the matter is, CIC's hands are tied. How can you scrutinize an arranged marriage?

there is no question that applications sent to Islamabad are scrutinized much more than say an application sent to Ottawa for an American citizen (speaking from experience for the latter). Some Americans had no issues with having a small ceremony in the living room of a house with a few friends. Many had small ceremonies like that and did not really have any issues. Absolutely no way that would fly for a wedding in say India or Pakistan.

You're comparing 3rd world to 1st world. Yes its easy for Americans. So what? Is it easy for caucasians from poorer countries? Like Ukraine? I doubt it. And they dont get a free pass of saying its an arranged marriage.

 

[Rob_TO]

How can you scrutinize an arranged marriage?

A real arranged marriage has a huge wedding with hundreds of friends and family. There are also other cultural customs that should be present in an arranged marriage.

So if someone submitted an app and claimed their marriage was arranged, yet they didn't have the proofs that showed it followed the customs or events that should usually be present, then it could be denied as a marriage of convenience or fraudulent.

 

[Rob_TO]

I heard that this is a mixed bag. If people knew this was true that many couples would try to have a baby to help their application. But I read this in the thread for appeals so maybe it applies to people who have already been rejected and looking for anything to help their appeal.

Ya I completely think that is people that were rejected, and are now trying to come up with ways to prove to CIC the relationship is real.

In the vast majority of cases, a PR app is eventually approved with no problems, whether or not a child is involved or not. So there is no need overall for people to have children simply for PR purposes.

And in real fraudulent scam marriages or marriages of convenience, while having a child could help the applicant get approved, would someone really have a kid just for PR purposes when they have zero intention of continuing the relationship with the spouse afterwards? That is going to an extreme to get PR status, and while it has probably happened, i'm sure it's pretty rare and only done by scumbags with zero morals.

 

[Avadava]

"Keeping Canada white" - that boat has sailed a long time ago. He (they guy from the article) should tell that to all the Sikh, Punjabi, Chinese, Filipinos, etc. who have been in Canada for generations, and they will laugh to his face.

Wow, this thread is 7 pages long and you are the very first person to say that!

Absolutely no one else here has any problem with the article claiming CIC is trying "keep Canada white". But if i even hint at reversing it, i get called an "ignorant racist".

I don't think no one else had a problem with those words, steerpike, I think most people (like me) didn't even consider that statement because of the fact that it isn't true. Saying Canada is white (hence the phrase "keeping it white") is like saying that a pregnant woman is still a virgin.

 

[user828]

Man, there goes my dream of getting married to a single mature lady with loads of $$ ;D

I simply wanted to put "fell in love at first sight, marriage in a jiffy flashed near my eyes"

It gets more difficult to play romance when you get older, especially in places likes India - where arranged marriages are common - its not uncommon for a friend/family to introduce would be couples and the marriage is decided within no time
I am seriously afraid of getting married to someone from back home - as I feel I will be left proving my relationship to New Delhi. Already experienced it's wrath during PGP app

 

[keesio]

A real arranged marriage has a huge wedding with hundreds of friends and family. There are also other cultural customs that should be present in an arranged marriage.

So if someone submitted an app and claimed their marriage was arranged, yet they didn't have the proofs that showed it followed the customs or events that should usually be present, then it could be denied as a marriage of convenience or fraudulent.

Yup. And for some of these CIC explicitly asks for a "X" number of photos for each part of the ceremony and write on the back of the photo a description, date and the names of the people in the photo. And if for some reason you skip a part of the ceremony, it looks bad and you have to explain why with a good reason. It is strict.

 

[Betina]

While I have respect for those whose marriage was arranged by their parents, using the excuse that they have the lowest divorce rate is a poor use of reasoning to say that arranged marriages are better suited for them. Have you ever considered the other side of the coin? Have you considered that some arranged marriages ended up with couples being very unhappy or very incompatible interests but can't get a divorce due to family honour / traditions.

Some marriages end up in stuck as "unhappy" marriage and they stayed together for the sake of staying married, or for financial reasons, or religious beliefs.

Nowadays the high divorce rates in the western world is usually due to divorce laws that made it easy to do. No fault divorce. No longer happy? Go get a divorce, it not your fault. Other factors to high divorce rate can include not getting to know each other well before making a commitment of marriage.

I also think that due to easy ability to get divorce, marriage has become a less serious matter to a lot of people. One of my ex, asked me why I had reservations about marrying her. I told her that we only dated a short time and I don't really know her as well as I like. Her response was, we can get a divorce if it doesn't work out. I mean, what's the h*ll? That tells me that she really don't see marriage as a serious commitment. Just an convenient arrangement for her.

Some couples don't want to deal the hard work it requires of them to work out their martial problems. So some take the easy route and file for divorce. I am not condoning spousal abuse, that's ground for divorce, in my opinion. But I think the divorce rate would drop if the couples actually work hard to make the marriage work instead of looking for an excuse.

Screech339

Screech, I'm neither defending the arranged marriage culture, nor attacking it. I'm not judging it because i have never lived in that kind of a culture. Yes, what you say makes sense for any of us that wasn't brought up in that culture. I don't judge their "excuse", I was just pointing out their reasoning.

I don't think that blaming someone for staying in what we perceive as an unhappy relationship due to religious/social/financial reasons is ok. Maybe someone understands the term marriage in a different sense than us. We all chose to live our lives as we see fit/as we were brought up/as we are capable, and just like I don't want people judging me for my life choices, I will not judge them for theirs.

 

[user828]

A real arranged marriage has a huge wedding with hundreds of friends and family. There are also other cultural customs that should be present in an arranged marriage.

So if someone submitted an app and claimed their marriage was arranged, yet they didn't have the proofs that showed it followed the customs or events that should usually be present, then it could be denied as a marriage of convenience or fraudulent.

Most cases but not everyone wants a lavish wedding, it's very prolific in North of India ( eg.,, ) but its become terribly expensive in places like Mumbai where the family rather give money to the bride/groom rather than spend on these huge weddings
Infact, these huge weddings have disappeared off late - the more you show off, the more you can get into trouble ( lot of extortion calls among other issues) - so VO has to keep up with trends
I wish to have a simple arrange marriage, it doesnt mean its not genuine.

 

[steerpike]

Yup. And for some of these CIC explicitly asks for a "X" number of photos for each part of the ceremony and write on the back of the photo a description, date and the names of the people in the photo. And if for some reason you skip a part of the ceremony, it looks bad and you have to explain why with a good reason. It is strict.

Wow they tell them exactly what to do to get approved? I wish I had a cheat sheet like that. I wasnt given any guidance of how many photos to included, or what to write on the back of them.

I get it.They have to have a wedding. I am just skeptical that that is a bigger hurdle than what they put non-arranged marriages thru. Certainly it is far less invasive. They dont have to hand over their most intimate and private personal corespondances.

I think its naive of CIC to think people wont put on a big wedding just to get a PR. I think the system is skewed in favour of non-western marriages.

 

[user828]

Wow they tell them exactly what to do to get approved? I wish I had a cheat sheet like that. I wasnt given any guidance of how many photos to included, or what to write on the back of them.

I get it.They have to have a wedding. I am just skeptical that that is a bigger hurdle than what they put non-arranged marriages thru. Certainly it is far less invasive. They dont have to hand over their most intimate and private personal corespondances.

I think its naive of CIC to think people wont put on a big wedding just to get a PR. I think the system is skewed in favour of non-western marriages.

True but it has to match the region, in that case a simple marriage is considered fake if its from the same region?
Not sure how it's skewed, western applicants have a smooth ride all around ( especially when it come to visa-exempt countries )

 

[keesio]

Wow they tell them exactly what to do to get approved? I wish I had a cheat sheet like that. I wasnt given any guidance of how many photos to included, or what to write on the back of them.

I get it.They have to have a wedding. I am just skeptical that that is a bigger hurdle than what they put non-arranged marriages thru. Certainly it is far less invasive. They dont have to hand over their most intimate and private personal corespondances.

I think its naive of CIC to think people wont put on a big wedding just to get a PR. I think the system is skewed in favour of non-western marriages.

It's not exactly hard to figure out what is ideal for any region. Big ceremony with lots of family, etc. That is pretty easy to figure out. But not everyone wants to go through with it. That is when CIC takes a closer eye. If they don't want to bother with all of it, then is it legit?

I had a non-arranged marriage. The proof I sent? Some photos of our small wedding and reception. Some pics of us on our honeymoon. A few boarding passes that showed me visiting her. And a few pages of a call log showing that i called her a bunch of times. Hardly intrusive and took little effort to put together.

 

[Happywife08]

That's interesting! I had a small wedding with just my immediate family (mom, dad, brother, sisters, and niece) and my husband didn't have any family. He's from the US, but we simply didn't feel the need for a huge wedding. I hope that doesn't affect our application! I think my family looks happy enough in the pictures.. but now by looking at FB they're smiling more in some of the other photos!

Not to worry at all. I had an even smaller ceremony since we got married in Canada and my family was in Costa Rica and because they need a visa they couldn't be there so it was basically my hubby and I with our witnesses. We did explain we are planning a ceremony at the beach.
back home. I got Decision made already. Beautiful pictures

 

[Rob_TO]

I think the system is skewed in favour of non-western marriages.

A "western" application through a visa office like London, Australia or Ottawa, can be done in 8-10 months and has a rejection rate of around 5%.

A "non-western" app through a visa office like Islamabad or Singapore, can see over 2 years in processing and a rejection rate of 20%. New Delhi is a relatively quick office but also has a 20% rejection rate.

If the system is skewed, then it is much more in favour of western applications.

 

[steerpike]

A "western" application through a visa office like London, Australia or Ottawa, can be done in 8-10 months and has a rejection rate of around 5%.

A "non-western" app through a visa office like Islamabad or Singapore, can see over 2 years in processing and a rejection rate of 20%. New Delhi is a relatively quick office but also has a 20% rejection rate.

If the system is skewed, then it is much more in favour of western applications.

I think those wait times are more to do with volume than with extra scrutiny.

And what exactly is the point in comparing 3rd world countries to 1st world visa-exempt countries? Thats not what the discussion is about.

For example, people from Russia and Ukraine are not treated any better than people from non-white nations.

 

[Rob_TO]

I think those wait times are more to do with volume than with extra scrutiny.

No, the volumes of apps processed per year at the visa offices with the longest wait time, is actually far less than the volume through most other main offices.

And what exactly is the point in comparing 3rd world countries to 1st world visa-exempt countries? Thats not what the discussion is about.

Because you are the one that says the system is skewed so the application is easier from those "non western" countries.

However its clearly seen that those countries have longer wait times and much higher rejection rates, so clearly that assumption was wrong.

Those countries assess the validity of a marriage differently, but overall it's much harder to be approved from those countries, and much easier with a typical western marriage.