How does CIC tell if a relationship is real or fake

[keesio]

I think those wait times are more to do with volume than with extra scrutiny.

And what exactly is the point in comparing 3rd world countries to 1st world visa-exempt countries? Thats not what the discussion is about.

For example, people from Russia and Ukraine are not treated any better than people from non-white nations.

Then what is your point? That people from India and Pakistan (and others) have an easier time because CIC accepts arranged marriages as being legitimate in those regions? If you want to look at it that way, then so be it. But they get scrutinized in other ways. For example, if a muslim applicant is marrying a non-muslim sponsor, this is a red flag and CIC will raise that in the interview. If a Russian orthodox catholic is marrying a non-orthodox catholic, it is not much of an issue.

Sponsorship cases from Russian and Ukraine are indeed scrutinized a bit more because in the past, there was a rash of cases where Canadian men were marrying Russian girls and then getting dumped after they got their PR. It is the same reason why sponsorship cases from Cuba is scrutinized if the sponsor is female, due to a rash of cases where the Cuban man dumped his Canadian wife after getting his PR.

 

[Graihn]

No, the volumes of apps processed per year at the visa offices with the longest wait time, is actually far less than the volume through most other main offices.

Because you are the one that says the system is skewed so the application is easier from those "non western" countries.

However its clearly seen that those countries have longer wait times and much higher rejection rates, so clearly that assumption was wrong.

Those countries assess the validity of a marriage differently, but overall it's much harder to be approved from those countries, and much easier with a typical western marriage.

If I can cut in and I hope I don't offend anybody, but:

Is there a chance that us western, visa exempt, people have a higher success rate due to the fact that 95% of the relationships are actually real, and the 80 success rate people come with a factor of "wanting to leave our home country because it is a horrible place to live" and hence 20%ish of the relationships are fake, and takes longer to process because VOs need to be more aware of this.

 

[Ponga]

If I can cut in and I hope I don't offend anybody, but:

Is there a chance that us western, visa exempt, people have a higher success rate due to the fact that 95% of the relationships are actually real, and the 80 success rate people come with a factor of "wanting to leave our home country because it is a horrible place to live" and hence 20%ish of the relationships are fake, and takes longer to process because VOs need to be more aware of this.

Uh oh...It's about to get even crazier here!! :-\

 

[Rob_TO]

Is there a chance that us western, visa exempt, people have a higher success rate due to the fact that 95% of the relationships are actually real, and the 80 success rate people come with a factor of "wanting to leave our home country because it is a horrible place to live" and hence 20%ish of the relationships are fake, and takes longer to process because VOs need to be more aware of this.

Yes that is pretty much the reasoning... there is more of an incentive for an applicant from a less developed or poorer nation, to fake their way into Canada to have a better life.

There is much less chance an applicant from a wealthier nation would do this. Heck there's just as good a chance a Canadian citizen would want to immigrate to some place like Australia, the US or the UK, since the lifestyle and income potential is very similar.

Rejection rates and how hard CIC scrutinizes apps, are based on historical stats and cases of fraud. Whenever you see a case of a guy/girl duping a Canadian into marrying them and then splitting as soon as they reach Canada, or a case where a sponsor is being paid to marry an applicant just to get PR... it is practically never from a visa-exempt country. So they make it easier/quicker (in general) for visa-exempt applicants to get PR status by playing the odds.

 

[Graihn]

Uh oh...It's about to get even crazier here!! :-\

I need to stress that I didn't mean eastern countries are horrible to live in, merely that I'm sure there are people with that mindset.

Don't get crazier! Lol

 

[keesio]

Yes that is pretty much the reasoning... there is more of an incentive for an applicant from a less developed or poorer nation, to fake their way into Canada to have a better life.

There is much less chance an applicant from a wealthier nation would do this. Heck there's just as good a chance a Canadian citizen would want to immigrate to some place like Australia, the US or the UK, since the lifestyle and income potential is very similar.

Rejection rates and how hard CIC scrutinizes apps, are based on historical stats and cases of fraud. Whenever you see a case of a guy/girl duping a Canadian into marrying them and then splitting as soon as they reach Canada, or a case where a sponsor is being paid to marry an applicant just to get PR... it is practically never from a visa-exempt country. So they make it easier/quicker (in general) for visa-exempt applicants to get PR status by playing the odds.

Yup. And that is why those countries are visa-exempt in the first place.

 

[Ponga]

I need to stress that I didn't mean eastern countries are horrible to live in, merely that I'm sure there are people with that mindset.

Don't get crazier! Lol

Same could be said for many parts of the US of A, eh?!

 

[Graihn]

Same could be said for many parts of the US of A, eh?!

What on earth do you mean? The US is the centre of the world, the home of the brave, the land of the free! Lol

 

[steerpike]

No, the volumes of apps processed per year at the visa offices with the longest wait time, is actually far less than the volume through most other main offices.

Wait times are all over the place. For example singapore is 28 months but Philipines is only 14. They are similair regions with similair types of applicants as far as I know. I think think suggesting "long wait times = more scrutiny" is inaccurate.

Because you are the one that says the system is skewed so the application is easier from those "non western" countries.

Yes, and I shouldnt have used that term. I was talking about the article which talks about white people. However when i used that term on here I was immediately accused of being an "ignorant racist". So I made the mistake of using the terms non-western and western, which confused you as to what I was talking about. Forget I ever used the word western. Its not what the article talks about and its not what I have been talking about. I am talking about white people.

However its clearly seen that those countries have longer wait times and much higher rejection rates, so clearly that assumption was wrong.

Those countries assess the validity of a marriage differently, but overall it's much harder to be approved from those countries, and much easier with a typical western marriage.

See above. I am talking about white people not 1st world nations. As I have clearly explained and which is self-evident from the thread. I apologize for using that confusing term. I guess I will have to use "white people" and continue to be accussed of being an ignorant racist.

 

[Graihn]

So how abt the weather today, eh? Darn much snow!

 

[Desi-girl]

I didnt say better or worse. I said CIC doesnt scrutinize arranged marriages as much. I adamantly disagree with the article that CIC policies "keep Canada white".


They are less likely to end in divorce because there is much more pressure from the family to stay married. Divorce was not common either among westerners when it was frowned apon. Divorce only became common when couples gained the freedom to live their lives how they want to.


I'm using the terms used in the article. The article says "white". If you have a problem with that then take it up with the newspaper, not with me. And you had an easy time, but in general white people are given much more scruntiny and forced to endure a much more invasive process than people from arranged marriages.

Hi, I disagree. Indians are a lot more open minded nowadays on being able to choose your own spouse and the divorce rates are increasing because there is a mixing of cultures and more acceptance overall. Before, we were only allowed to be married to a person of same status, colour and religion. Now, more people are getting marred to their spouses who are of different cultures, religion, race, etc.

If you go onto the New Delhi forum, one-fourth to one-third of the applicants are coming from a previous divorce. And almost all of them have to go for interview.
A lot of people are still waiting to hear from their visa offices since 2012. Emailing the office gets no response for months and no one picks up the phone.

They just need to say its an arranged marriage. Then they dont need to provide any proof of a relationship, and dont need to prove that they know each other, love each other, or answer any intimate questions. They dont have to show their private love letters, photos or anything. All they need to do is show they come from a culture that allows arranged marriages they are done. They can say at the interview "i dont know anything about that person, i dont love him/her, and I only married him/her because my parents wanted to me" and they will be approved and welcomed with open arms.

Meanwhile, white-skinned people are put thru the grind. They have to prove everything and will be questioned on anything and everything. And anything the VO thinks is suspicious will be a red flag. They are required to conform to the VOs personal idea of what romantic love and marriage is like.

Mine was an arranged marriage. But I talked with him, skyped with him.. etc before we married. I had to send all that proof. Its not as easy to just say, we had an arranged marriage. We have to show that we love each other and that one of us is not going to bail out and divorce the other after getting the PR. India and Pakistan may have one of the highest number of fraud cases. Therefore the rest of us are scrutinized the most to make sure that its not a marriage fraud.

Plus, just because its an arranged marriage, I am sure the couple would know about each other a lot more as they have been spending time with each other after the wedding than before.

 

[SenoritaBella]

Desi-girl, hoping you can help me with this one. Can't find a thread with the answer so far. We got acknowledgement of receipt from CPC Missisauga with application number starting with F. It had my Client ID #. This is not sponsorship approval, right?

 

[keesio]

Desi-girl, hoping you can help me with this one. Can't find a thread with the answer so far. We got acknowledgement of receipt from CPC Missisauga with application number starting with F. It had my Client ID #. This is not sponsorship approval, right?

Did it look something like this?

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UCI: 12345678
Application No.: F000123456
Quote these numbers when corresponding with our office.

This is an automated message. Please DO NOT RESPOND to this message.

Dear John Doe,

This confirms that your application to Sponsor a Member of the Family Class has been received by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) on 2013/01/16 on behalf of the following member(s):

Jane Doe

....

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If so, then that is simply notification for CIC that the application has been received (also known as Stage 1 AOR). It is not sponsor approval. That would come next. It would explicitly say "You have met the requirements for eligibility as a sponsor" somewhere in the letter.

 

[Desi-girl]

Desi-girl, hoping you can help me with this one. Can't find a thread with the answer so far. We got acknowledgement of receipt from CPC Missisauga with application number starting with F. It had my Client ID #. This is not sponsorship approval, right?

I am not sure (it's been a while since we got SA) but it is most likely your AoR and you will get another letter of SA soon. We got one letter in the snail mail with both acknowledgement of receipt and sponsor approval. If you got your AoR in email, you will be sent another email for sponsor approval in a week. If you got it through post/mail, it is your SA and AoR.

 

[SenoritaBella]

Yes, it did look like that. Thanks, keesio! Is there a spreadsheet or thread for January 2014 applicants? Would like to join.

@Desi-girl.. thanks for your reply. It would be awesome to get sponsor approval in a week but I doubt it since they are processing applications received Dec 27th. Took about 28 days for AOR. My ecas isn't active yet.