+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Got oath letter BUT Outside Canada with expired PR. Plz help

wilbur

Star Member
Aug 5, 2010
192
10
124
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-04-2011
Doc's Request.
Sent with app
AOR Received.
02-06-2011
IELTS Request
Sent with app
File Transfer...
19-07-2011
Med's Request
02-09-2011
Med's Done....
03-09-2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
23-09-2011
VISA ISSUED...
28-09-2011
LANDED..........
15-10-2011
nb8285 said:
Sounds to me like MUFC is a troll... should get an award for the most unhelpful and arrogant comments / posts. I suppose the nuisance factor is something we all have to deal with on a free forum like this.
I disagree, he doesn't post the most arrogant comments, there are worse people on this forum...

You need to read things with some humor...
 

deweysmith

Hero Member
Mar 20, 2015
216
12
Montreal, QC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-Ottawa
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
18-03-2015
AOR Received.
23-04-2015
File Transfer...
15-05-2015
VISA ISSUED...
22-08-2015
LANDED..........
29-08-2012
nb8285 said:
Sounds to me like MUFC is a troll... should get an award for the most unhelpful and arrogant comments / posts. I suppose the nuisance factor is something we all have to deal with on a free forum like this.
On the contrary, MUFC is a Champion Member.
 

CANMAPLE

Star Member
Feb 7, 2013
128
4
London, ON
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
MUFC said:
But when you exited you have had a passport.

Please break it down for stupid people like me to understand

ROLF ;D ;D ;D

Hey bud

Let me make it real simple for you then, if you don't have anything valuable to add to this forum, you should refrain yourself from posting more dumbass comments.
You don't even have a damn citizenship application in progress, from what I can tell from your posts so stay off this damn forum until you actually file a petition.

Cheers
 

CanadianCountry

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2011
567
23
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02-02-2010
Doc's Request.
16-03-2010
AOR Received.
24-07-2010
File Transfer...
24-03-2010
Med's Request
Yes
Med's Done....
Yes
Passport Req..
Yes
VISA ISSUED...
Yes
LANDED..........
Yes
He (MUFC) doesnt have a citizenship application in process, has Finland and American citizenship.He doesnt think Canadian citizenship would help him, but he is gonna apply for it anyway coming next year, for just in case scenarios.

CANMAPLE said:
Hey bud

Let me make it real simple for you then, if you don't have anything valuable to add to this forum, you should refrain yourself from posting more dumbass comments.
You don't even have a damn citizenship application in progress, from what I can tell from your posts so stay off this damn forum until you actually file a petition.

Cheers
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
CanadianCountry said:
He (MUFC) doesnt have a citizenship application in process, has Finland and American citizenship.He doesnt think Canadian citizenship would help him, but he is gonna apply for it anyway coming next year, for just in case scenarios.
Actually MUFC doesn't have American citizenship anymore. He has renounced it over FATCA issues.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Specially in my situation keeping my US citizenship would have only negative consequences and limitations.

Thank God that I renounced it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AbdulIBX

alphazip

Champion Member
May 23, 2013
1,310
136
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
janoo said:
Travel by Car from border by taxi/bus etc.... check nearest usa border

and travel fast and no need to cancel oath otherwise you will have to wait long.
If a person crosses the border in a commercial carrier (bus, train, plane) they need their PR card. If they enter in a private car, they can use their Confirmation of Permanent Residence. My spouse has crossed the border many times by car with an expired PR card and U.S. passport...never asked for COPR.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
Barely two days ago the OP made what appears to be a sincere query.

Less than 24 hours ago the discussion of that query was abruptly diverted with posts, literally, from the perspective of confessed stupidity (with sarcasm or rare glimpse of honesty? the former intended but the latter revealed?).

Jeopardy answer: persona posting to provoke negative reactions.

Correct question: may be either the descriptive term or an individual example ("what is . . . ," or "who is . . . . ")

Beyond the provocations, more disconcerting (and in effect more disruptive) are contrasting reports which are blatantly implausible but which might be confused, by casual readers seeking real information, for sincere accounts of actual experience.

But nb8285 is correct, this is an anonymous Internet posting forum, and it is what it is, such diversions to be expected, best ignored.


Meanwhile, on the topic of what suffices as a Travel Document facilitating travel to Canada:

Most international airlines require a passport to board international flights, with exceptions for flights between certain countries. In particular, a passport is required to board a flight destined for North America from outside North America.

That is separate from what is required for entry into a particular country, including Canada.

Moreover, there are additional requirements for boarding flights destined for Canada (similar to those destined for the U.S.), such as that the airline check boarding passengers for authorization to enter Canada. Technically, Canadian PRs are required to display a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document; practically, there are many reports that PRs carrying a visa-exempt passport will be permitted to board flights destined for Canada simply by presenting the visa-exempt passport.

Reminder: authorization to enter Canada is not the same as actual permission to enter Canada. PRs have no concerns in this regard. PR status mandates permission to enter Canada. Technically all a PR needs to show at the POE is proof of identity and PR status, but practically proof of identity also establishes status. (In contrast, a Foreign National, someone who is not a "Canadian," as in neither a Canadian citizen nor a Canadian PR, may have authorization to enter Canada, such as a visa-exempt passport or a visitor visa, or work permit or study permit, but must still seek permission to actually enter and that permission is not guaranteed no matter what visa the individual is carrying.)

The problem the PR abroad can encounter arising from not having a valid PR card (whether expired or lost) is being allowed to board a flight destined to Canada.

Hence, all the discussion about traveling via the U.S., for a PR abroad who:
-- does not have a currently valid PR card
-- is not carrying a visa-exempt passport
-- but who has the capacity to travel to the U.S.

The PR who can get into the U.S. and who can travel to a land crossing POE on the Canadian/U.S. border, does not need either a PR card or a PR TD to obtain entry into Canada. All the PR needs to do is establish his identity (with status confirmed by the system).

So the problem for the OP can be solved, one way, if travel via the U.S. is possible, by traveling through the U.S. and reaching the Canadian border.

The other solution, obtaining a PR Travel Document, is impractical given the amount of time there is to make the trip, and given that being abroad without a valid PR card carries a significant risk of triggering a PR residency examination which, in turn, carries the risk of delaying the issuance of the PR TD; this is particularly true with the citizenship application pending.

All that said, the travel-via-the-U.S.-approach is not guaranteed to avoid triggering a problem. While re-entry into Canada is certain, once the OP reaches a land crossing POE, the absence of a valid PR card risks a referral to secondary at the POE, and again with the citizenship application pending there is a significant risk of further inquiry, potentially including the cancellation of the scheduled oath.

Otherwise, the technicalities regarding what suffices as a Travel Document for travel to Canada are just that, technicalities. It is, of course, often worthwhile to clarify the more technical aspects, such as that the report above suggesting that a PR card is not valid for travel to Canada from the U.S. since 9/11 is simply wrong (and both arambi and I have reported numerous experiences confirming this in practice). Relative to this, there are different rules governing Americans and Canadian citizens for non-commercial, land-crossing modes of transportation (such as the enhanced drivers license). But these different rules, for Americans and Canadian citizens, appear to be not relevant to the situation confronting the OP.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
dpenabill said:
Technically, Canadian PRs are required to display a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document; practically, there are many reports that PRs carrying a visa-exempt passport will be permitted to board flights destined for Canada simply by presenting the visa-exempt passport.
Yes the bold one is correct. When I show my passport they let me board the plane without showing them my PR card.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AbdulIBX

arambi

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2014
332
24
nb8285 said:
Sounds to me like MUFC is a troll... should get an award for the most unhelpful and arrogant comments / posts. I suppose the nuisance factor is something we all have to deal with on a free forum like this.
Your conclusion is my consolation: "I suppose the nuisance factor is something we all have to deal with on a free forum like this."

Thank you.
 

arambi

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2014
332
24
screech339 said:
Actually MUFC doesn't have American citizenship anymore. He has renounced it over FATCA issues.
Finland / America??? ::) ::) ::) None.


I wouldn't be shocked to learn that MUFC is illegal immigrant in Canada !!!
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Some people are still thinking that their opinion about me will actually affect me .

ROLF ;D ;D ;D

Click with angry face on the Poor link under my nickname... (Facebook style LOL) ;D
 
  • Like
Reactions: AbdulIBX

neutral

Hero Member
Mar 19, 2015
509
26
Montreal
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
All what dpenabill said I agree with.

And it works with almost every single country in the world. If you reach the border, even if you don't have a single identification document, the officer CAN'T deny you enter as a citizen of that country or as a permanent resident.

The problem is that in practice, is very very difficult to get to the border as no commercial transport company will let you in without proper documents. Why? Because nowadays, companies are responsible for the people they bring to a country so if travelers are allowed to board without proper documents, the company will be fined for every single passenger it brought.

The reason why Canadian PR with visa waiver passport are let in to board without having to show theirs PR card is very simple. The carrier employee doesn't have to know that you're a permanent resident so the only they care about is if you have SOME document that allow them justify to let you board in.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
neutral said:
All what dpenabill said I agree with.

And it works with almost every single country in the world. If you reach the border, even if you don't have a single identification document, the officer CAN'T deny you enter as a citizen of that country or as a permanent resident.

The problem is that in practice, is very very difficult to get to the border as no commercial transport company will let you in without proper documents. Why? Because nowadays, companies are responsible for the people they bring to a country so if travelers are allowed to board without proper documents, the company will be fined for every single passenger it brought.

The reason why Canadian PR with visa waiver passport are let in to board without having to show theirs PR card is very simple. The carrier employee doesn't have to know that you're a permanent resident so the only they care about if if you have SOME document that allow them justify to let you board in.
I agree with you too, that why I said that without passport it will not workout to get to US or Canada if the person is currently away from here.

I think that the employees at the airport know the list of visa waived countries and the let the people in if the passport is real.
In my case I am allowed to stay in Canada for 6 months per visit so that is enough for them to board on the plane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AbdulIBX

OhCanadiana

VIP Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,086
217
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
dpenabill said:
Barely two days ago the OP made what appears to be a sincere query.

Less than 24 hours ago the discussion of that query was abruptly diverted with posts, literally, from the perspective of confessed stupidity (with sarcasm or rare glimpse of honesty? the former intended but the latter revealed?).
+∞

The sad part is that it distracts from helping the OP and may discourage the OP to ask follow up questions.

In hopes of reassuring the OP:

dpenabill said:
Otherwise, the technicalities regarding what suffices as a Travel Document for travel to Canada are just that, technicalities. It is, of course, often worthwhile to clarify the more technical aspects, such as that the report above suggesting that a PR card is not valid for travel to Canada from the U.S. since 9/11 is simply wrong (and both arambi and I have reported numerous experiences confirming this in practice). Relative to this, there are different rules governing Americans and Canadian citizens for non-commercial, land-crossing modes of transportation (such as the enhanced drivers license). But these different rules, for Americans and Canadian citizens, appear to be not relevant to the situation confronting the OP.
FWIW, add one more personal account - I've been in the car when a BSO was actually annoyed that the PR had handed over both the PR card and their passport saying that the passport was irrelevant to him (the BSO).

I would still endeavor to always travel with a passport, if at all possible but am cognizant that as neutral said:

neutral said:
If you reach the border, even if you don't have a single identification document, the officer CAN'T deny you enter as a citizen of that country or as a permanent resident.

The problem is that in practice, is very very difficult to get to the border as no commercial transport company will let you in without proper documents. Why? Because nowadays, companies are responsible for the people they bring to a country so if travelers are allowed to board without proper documents, the company will be fined for every single passenger it brought.

The reason why Canadian PR with visa waiver passport are let in to board without having to show theirs PR card is very simple. The carrier employee doesn't have to know that you're a permanent resident so the only they care about is if you have SOME document that allow them justify to let you board in.
And will add a story here. I know a dual citizen US/Canada who flew up using his US passport (due to an unfortunate family emergency with a family member hospitalized). He was upfront with the BSO, explaining he had sent his passport to be renewed and the BSO granted entry to Canada based on his Canadian citizenship.

And, two more thoughts:

1. In Canada (unlike, say the US), PR have a right to enter the country (just like citizens). If the BSO doubts a PR has met his/her residency obligations, they can kick-off a review and hearing process but the PR is still admissible.

2. Canadian PR status is not lost automatically. Even if a person hasn't met their residency obligations, they would need to renounce their PR status (or ask for a Travel Document and then have the assessment performed) before being able to, say apply for a visa or new PR status.