Foreign Service - Strike?

[CdnandTrini]

Reply: Foreign Service - Strike?

Quote from: amikety on July 16, 2013, 12:56:04 am

The diplomats on strike are not immigration officers.

quote

Hi Amikety, I know that you and PMM and another senior keep stating that the PAFSO strike is not affecting immigration applications but I am confused and keep wondering why you folks are so vehement on informing forum members that it has nothing to do with PR applications when the media seems to keep saying the contrary. Please see below, this info. goes as far back as mid-June 2013. I am happy to be corrected by the way. I will post this in the other threads as well where the confusion continues. The link is:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/06/21/canadas_tourism_industry_could_take_hit_during_strike_by_visa_staff.html

"More than 320 of the 1,350 foreign affairs union members are immigration officers. So far, PAFSO members have been on legal strike, disrupting the visa processing services in Beijing, Shanghai, Delhi, Chandigarh, Mexico City and Manila."

Citizenship and Immigration Canada said the department has designated visa officer positions overseas as essential but the union said they account for only 25 per cent of all immigration officers.

“Contingency plans are already in place to ensure all offices remain open and are providing at least a minimum level of service,” said immigration spokesperson Nancy Caron.

“Priority will be placed on urgent humanitarian applications. Anyone applying for a visa should submit their application as far in advance as possible.”


"Although 1,060 non-union local employees continue their work in visa offices, the majority of them are support workers and not decision-makers, said Edwards."

 

[marianasanroman]

OF COURSE THIS IS AFFECTING VISA APPLICATIONS!! you can search wherever you want in this forum and find people who have been waiting months for a visitor's visa... or like myself who i've been waiting 3 and a half months for a work permit, when i should've waited 3-4 weeks instead. just stop by PAFSO'S facebook page and read a few posts.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

I'm on the government's side of this issue. Here's what clinched it for me:





“The problem is that after about [a decade] of service, these foreign service professionals are looking in the office next door to them and seeing economists and lawyers and social scientists who are making huge amounts of money more than them, and they're deciding to take their hard earned skills and experience elsewhere.” - Tim Edwards, PAFSO President

“Lawyers, economists, policy analysts, commerce officers -- they all make much more than we do.” - Tim Edwards, PAFSO President


"There is only one key issue: equal pay for equal work. Foreign Service officers are subjected to a series of unfair and demoralizing wage gaps at all four levels of our pay scale compared to other federal professionals performing similar or identical work. These include economists, commerce officers, policy analysts, and lawyers." PAFSO Press Release - May 2013 (Avaliable at: http://pafso.com/_includes/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Aide%20Memoire%20%20Why%20Is%20Canada%20Foreign%20Service%20on%20Strike.pdf)





Mr. Edwards, if you wanted to be paid the same as a lawyer, you probably should have gone to law school and passed the bar exam.

Those are all positions within the Foreign Service as well. He is referring to PAFSO lawyers, economists, policy analysts, commerce officers etc that make less then their domestic counterparts.

 

[CdnandTrini]

Reply: Foreign Service - Strike?

OF COURSE THIS IS AFFECTING VISA APPLICATIONS!! you can search wherever you want in this forum and find people who have been waiting months for a visitor's visa... or like myself who i've been waiting 3 and a half months for a work permit, when i should've waited 3-4 weeks instead. just stop by PAFSO'S facebook page and read a few posts.

I am not disagreeing with you marianasanroman. I am calling on the senior members that I have mentioned above that are insistent that the PAFSO strike has nothing to do with immigration applications (which they are commenting to many forum members about and not always kindly I might add) to either back up their claims with hard data/facts or stand corrected. Especially to new people on this forum we ALL have a responsibility to not be careless with our information.

It seems to me as though some experienced people on this forum think their "opinions" are all that need to suffice for the less experienced forum members. I happen to think that if we are wrong (veterans or newbies) we need to admit it or if we are speaking our thoughts vs. hard facts/ accurate data we need to at least clarify that as well. My humble opinion. Blessings.

 

[jwa007]

Those are all positions within the Foreign Service as well. He is referring to PAFSO lawyers, economists, policy analysts, commerce officers etc that make less then their domestic counterparts.

Is there any source that demonstrates this? Because this is not how it comes across.

Regardless, if the fallback position is that FSWs in overseas offices should all be paid the same as their counterparts in Canada (as I have also heard argued); this is also a flawed argument.

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that someone working in Delhi should be paid the same as someone working in Ottawa. Canada has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If we're going to view this issue as one of "fairness", then of course someone working in Canada should be paid more than someone working in the third world.

I still can't believe that it's legal for government workers to strike. All joking aside, I've always viewed the government as "essential services".

 

[DGT]

Is there any source that demonstrates this? Because this is not how it comes across.

Regardless, if the fallback position is that FSWs in overseas offices should all be paid the same as their counterparts in Canada (as I have also heard argued); this is also a flawed argument.

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that someone working in Delhi should be paid the same as someone working in Ottawa. Canada has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If we're going to view this issue as one of "fairness", then of course someone working in Canada should be paid more than someone working in the third world.

I still can't believe that it's legal for government workers to strike. All joking aside, I've always viewed the government as "essential services".

The discrepancy in cost of living isn't factored in as a trade off against the difficulties of living abroad. My Uncle works for the Foreign Office of the UK, and receives a set salary regardless of his posting. His income was enough to live like a king in India when he was posted there, but in the UK it's a fairly average (not terrible though!) salary. You do have to try and appreciate that for many in the foreign service the nature of postings abroad can make it impossible for spouses to work, therefore making income a key issue. My Uncle is lucky enough to be married to a fellow Foreign Office worker so they've never had that problem and always get posted together.

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked! The issue of equal pay regardless of Geographic location is a loaded one that i'm not an authority on. But it seems to me that it would be difficult to implement and make any kind of savings on the part of workers posted abroad, very difficult. The covert issue between the lines regarding PAFSO's stance on the aforementioned "lawyers, economists, policy analysts", is that many positions within the department have been trimmed and downsized while freelancers are brought in to perform the duties that staff on the payroll used to do. I can understand how that might rattle the feathers of many PAFSO workers. I don't know if that is a more efficient approach to managing the department, and saving money or not. I'm not an economist, nor am I particularly smart for that matter. Just a frame of reference!

I don't necessarily disagree with you jwa007. I find the whole matter infuriating, and not being able to work for so long due to delays almost got my wife and I evicted for being unable to pay our rent! But there are two sides to every story, and I hope PAFSO and the Treasury Board can find some middle ground in between these stories. I respect your (and everyone's!) opinion on this thread, and forum. Just wanted to contribute to the debate with what I know of the internal machinations of these departments!

And on a lighter note, if you think government workers striking is bad you should watch PM Harper (and many before him!) prorogue parliament and take a few months off while still drawing a pay cheque!

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Is there any source that demonstrates this? Because this is not how it comes across.

Regardless, if the fallback position is that FSWs in overseas offices should all be paid the same as their counterparts in Canada (as I have also heard argued); this is also a flawed argument.

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that someone working in Delhi should be paid the same as someone working in Ottawa. Canada has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If we're going to view this issue as one of "fairness", then of course someone working in Canada should be paid more than someone working in the third world.

I still can't believe that it's legal for government workers to strike. All joking aside, I've always viewed the government as "essential services".

A Canadian Embassy is still considered Canadian territory. The argument that FSW's enjoy a better standard of living in 3rd world countries is ridiculous. For what they have to sacrifice and for what conditions they have to work in and under they don't get paid enough.

Striking or withholding labour is the only thing that gives the worker any muscle to combat tyranny and exploitation in the workplace. If you think it doesn't happen even with collective agreements then you need to get a job with government and see for yourself.

 

[costaudjoe]

Is there any source that demonstrates this? Because this is not how it comes across.

Regardless, if the fallback position is that FSWs in overseas offices should all be paid the same as their counterparts in Canada (as I have also heard argued); this is also a flawed argument.

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that someone working in Delhi should be paid the same as someone working in Ottawa. Canada has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If we're going to view this issue as one of "fairness", then of course someone working in Canada should be paid more than someone working in the third world.

I still can't believe that it's legal for government workers to strike. All joking aside, I've always viewed the government as "essential services".

You are taking a myopic view of the situation. You need to think beyond the daily costs they incur. These are people who uproot themselves, and often uproot their families, to go abroad and become the gatekeepers for Canada. This means that possibly their spouse will not draw a salary, their children will have to attend international school which may or may not have the same standards as Canadian schools. At some point in time they will come back to Canada and hopefully with their savings buy a house and prepare for retirement. Given the sacrifices they are making for Canada, why should they have less purchasing power than those who do the same job in Canada?

PS Did you know it is standard practice for companies who send their employees abroad to pay them more (in addition to paying for their lodgings) for the sacrifice they are making? Why would we even begin to think it is acceptable to pay FSW LESS? This is mind boggling.

 

[skas13]

Re: Reply: Foreign Service - Strike?

Quote from: amikety on July 16, 2013, 12:56:04 am

The diplomats on strike are not immigration officers.

quote

Hi Amikety, I know that you and PMM and another senior keep stating that the PAFSO strike is not affecting immigration applications but I am confused and keep wondering why you folks are so vehement on informing forum members that it has nothing to do with PR applications when the media seems to keep saying the contrary. Please see below, this info. goes as far back as mid-June 2013. I am happy to be corrected by the way. I will post this in the other threads as well where the confusion continues. The link is:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/06/21/canadas_tourism_industry_could_take_hit_during_strike_by_visa_staff.html

"More than 320 of the 1,350 foreign affairs union members are immigration officers. So far, PAFSO members have been on legal strike, disrupting the visa processing services in Beijing, Shanghai, Delhi, Chandigarh, Mexico City and Manila."

Citizenship and Immigration Canada said the department has designated visa officer positions overseas as essential but the union said they account for only 25 per cent of all immigration officers.

“Contingency plans are already in place to ensure all offices remain open and are providing at least a minimum level of service,” said immigration spokesperson Nancy Caron.

“Priority will be placed on urgent humanitarian applications. Anyone applying for a visa should submit their application as far in advance as possible.”


"Although 1,060 non-union local employees continue their work in visa offices, the majority of them are support workers and not decision-makers, said Edwards."

I have no idea about other visa offices, but we applied through NEW Delhi, and they have been a stand still for almost 2 months. There have only been 2 COPR's issued, and when one poster went to pick up his passport he said that the office was virtually empty.

 

[skas13]

Is there any source that demonstrates this? Because this is not how it comes across.

Regardless, if the fallback position is that FSWs in overseas offices should all be paid the same as their counterparts in Canada (as I have also heard argued); this is also a flawed argument.

I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that someone working in Delhi should be paid the same as someone working in Ottawa. Canada has one of the highest costs of living in the world. If we're going to view this issue as one of "fairness", then of course someone working in Canada should be paid more than someone working in the third world.

I still can't believe that it's legal for government workers to strike. All joking aside, I've always viewed the government as "essential services".

The problem here is that the these foreign service workers move every 2 years. First off that is a burden in itself, but 2 years in Delhi, sure they can live like royalty on their salary, but if their next posting is in Sweden, they would just make enough to live comfortably. It's way easier to have a base salary than to try to adjust salaries based on posts.
I have friends who work for the American government and they move around a lot, they never stay in a place long enough to make lasting friends, or for their children to make friends in school. It's not an easy life. I wholeheartedly agree though that for me, immigration officers are essential services and should not be allowed to strike, or they should have rotating strikes.
Let's just hope it ends soon.

 

[Kiwi12]

I don't have any first hand information about whether or not the Strike is affecting applications but it is my understanding that there are always delays during summer months. Maybe they have changed their policies about going through applications and this is why it is taking longer, who knows. I worked for the government for 8 years and sometimes they had hiring freezes which impacted the workload greatly. In a situation such as a strike position and work to rule, there are likely many barriers affecting the timelines of the applications.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

My father was a Mountie. We moved 5 times in the first 5 years of my life and that was just to other locations in Canada. In all I have moved 31 times in 48 years. People think Public Service is easy? LOL.

 

[roomonfire23]

For anyone who wants an update:

-PAFSO asked government to go into binding arbitration
-Treasury Board agreed to go into arbitration assuming that the arbitration has certain conditions
-PAFSO read over conditions and has sent a reply to the Treasury Board's conditions
-we're now waiting to see how Treasury Board responds

If PAFSO and the government go into arbitration, PAFSO has said that the job action will end. This means that a new agreement doesn't need to be in place before PAFSO starts working again, they just need to agree on the arbitration conditions before they start working again.

 

[jwa007]

My father was a Mountie. We moved 5 times in the first 5 years of my life and that was just to other locations in Canada. In all I have moved 31 times in 48 years. People think Public Service is easy? LOL.

Who said public service is easy?

 

[marianasanroman]

Re: Reply: Foreign Service - Strike?

I am not disagreeing with you marianasanroman. I am calling on the senior members that I have mentioned above that are insistent that the PAFSO strike has nothing to do with immigration applications (which they are commenting to many forum members about and not always kindly I might add) to either back up their claims with hard data/facts or stand corrected. Especially to new people on this forum we ALL have a responsibility to not be careless with our information.

It seems to me as though some experienced people on this forum think their "opinions" are all that need to suffice for the less experienced forum members. I happen to think that if we are wrong (veterans or newbies) we need to admit it or if we are speaking our thoughts vs. hard facts/ accurate data we need to at least clarify that as well. My humble opinion. Blessings.

totally with you. I just had an argument with someone on a facebook group because he felt like an expert on the subject and SWORE the Treasury Board wouldn't accept the binding arbitration offer. We all agreed that we had to wait and see.. and he was wrong. So definitely, dont get discouraged by people that give information based on their own opinions.