Foreign Service - Strike?

[waiting1234]

again to reiterate my original 'right' mentioned was to a service paid for. Not for immigration but for processing. They can reject it if they find any issues but here I was specifically talking about a contractual obligation of sorts. I pay I receive service.... Kind of similar to what the strike is about..they work they should get paid..

 

[costaudjoe]

Here I sympathize with you.

Here's how I look at it. From an individual perspective it sucks. My spouse and I have been apart for so many months I have lost count. From a perspective as a regular Canadian, the PAFSO is the gatekeeper to Canada. I want them to have the best possible conditions.

The greater good is that they can do the best job possible.

 

[scos]

They aren't identical jobs. Actually go and read the PAFSO release entitled "Why is Canada's Foreign Service on Strike?"

You'll see lines such as this:
"compared to other federal professionals performing similar or identical work." - Yes it does say identical. It also says other "Federal Professionals" performing "similar" work i.e not the same.
"These include economists, commerce officers, policy analysts, and lawyers." - This is where they provide context to the above. Totally different workers with different titles and expertise who negotiate their wages separately as they aren't in the FS or covered by PAFSO.
"Often these employees work right next to us in neighbouring cubicles" - translated: "They just happen to be nearby so if they get paid more, we want what they get paid"
"The FS group is simply looking to catch up to what these workers have been granted in their own contract negotiations with Treasury Board." - More confirmation that those getting paid differently are so paid because they negotiated different contracts, at different times, likely through completely different unions.
"At the same time, these other workers don't face the same personal or career challenges that we do" - More differentiation. Sounds like they're doing a different job to me. What do you think?

You mention 2 visa offices. Ottawa and Manila. Ottawa being relatively new and experimental makes it difficult to get accurate comparisons. For Manila, however, we can. Let's take a look at the actual figures. As this is the FC forum I'd imagine most of us are interested in FC applications but I've included the raw totals too.

Manila 2012
26,160 persons processed - 92% approval - median time 14 months
3,205 Spouses, Partners, Children - median time 7 months
2,816 Parents/Grandparents - median time 30 months

Manila 2011
29,048 persons processed - 89% approval - median time 11 months
3,077 Spouses, Partners, Children - median time 4 months
988 Parents/Grandparents - median time 34 months

As you can see the number of Spouse, Partner, Children applications is similar in the most recent years. The difference is it took far longer to process them in 2012. They did manage to process a big spike in Parents/Grandparents applications however showing what can be done.
You can also see that, counting all streams, Manila actually processed LESS applications in 2012 than it did in 2011. Again the only difference is it took longer to process these fewer cases overall.

London is rather messy due to a massive spike in Skilled Worker applications but the number of FC cases is, again, very similar in each of the two years. As this is where I'm being processed I'll include its figures.

London 2012
38,799 persons processed - 48% approval - median time 25 months
1,389 Spouses, Partners, Children - median time 6 months
137 Parents/Grandparents - median time 44 months

London 2011
24,457 persons processed - 82% approval - median time 26 months
1,582 Spouses, Partners, Children approved - median time 4 months
155 Parents/Grandparents - median time 11 months

You can see that, again, despite a big rise in the number of overall applications (and a huge drop in approval rate) the number of FC applications is less in 2012 than 2011. The only difference? You know the story. Median processing times up and through the roof for the Parents/Grandparents. 4 months in 2011 to 6 months in 2012. I'd suspect that 6 months will seem exceptionally fast when the full 2013 figures are tabulated.

I just look at the facts and the figures. That's what forms my opinion. What has been forming yours?

I have a real problem with your use of median values as they do not give an accurate picture of what has been happening. I would say the best measure would be to use the governments numbers for application processing times since they are regularly posted and you can see how they change over time. They work off the time to complete 80% of applications. And I can tell you that in the early 2012 it was 8 months for Manila, and has risen to 14 months (results MUCH different to your median values). It has also risen in MOST other VOs. So while your medians show very little change, there has in fact been very extreme change (almost doubling of the processing time). As for number of cases you do realize that there are quotas and that for certain classes those numbers have been falling? If I remember correctly the number for family class spouses for this year fell by 4000 (I would have to check the report to be sure but I think that was the number). So if I tell you that we are only accepting X applicants, it doesn't matter if last year you processed X+Y, you are only allowed to pass X this year.

And during that time there have been countless changes and shakeups in how CIC is processing apps, all of which are "management issues" that aren't the fault of the union or its members. We had countless form changes (all requiring procedural changes of course, and many returned apps, just check the forums), changes in the front end processing in Mississauga (and the disastrous Ottawa Pilot that nearly lost my application and DID lose others). There have been continuous rollouts of new GCMS versions. There have been office consolidations and increasing workloads. The processing manual they use was updated, no doubt requiring some adjustment from VO staffs, and lets not forget new legislative changes requiring other adjustments. We had a major overhaul to the medicals to bring in e-medicals which still have to show any kind of improvement over the old system. And finally, and not until this year, we can add the PAFSO job actions to the list. How you can blame all that on PAFSO baffles me. I have read enough about the changes they are making to know the real problems are with the government. I found it very annoying to watch a video of senior CIC people talk with almost religious zeal at how GCMS will revolutionize everything. It won't. If you have a bad system it doesn't matter how much you automate it.

You want a good example of how well the CIC automation works? I ordered CGMS notes using the automated online system. The system took my request and generated the report 2 days later. I guess they are batching their jobs so ok, 2 days isn't bad. Then the report SAT for a further 28 days until their email process sent it back to me. Now this looks to be an automated process, so why is it so slow? Couldn't the email process have picked up my report the next run (or next day, or even the next week?) So why did I have to wait for the maximum allowed time (and others here are getting theirs in more than the allowed 30 days)? Is that PAFSO being lazy too?

So no, the problem isn't PAFSO. And your "hard numbers" don't seem very compelling.

 

[CdnandTrini]

I have a real problem with your use of median values as they do not give an accurate picture of what has been happening. I would say the best measure would be to use the governments numbers for application processing times since they are regularly posted and you can see how they change over time. They work off the time to complete 80% of applications. And I can tell you that in the early 2012 it was 8 months for Manila, and has risen to 14 months (results MUCH different to your median values). It has also risen in MOST other VOs. So while your medians show very little change, there has in fact been very extreme change (almost doubling of the processing time). As for number of cases you do realize that there are quotas and that for certain classes those numbers have been falling? If I remember correctly the number for family class spouses for this year fell by 4000 (I would have to check the report to be sure but I think that was the number). So if I tell you that we are only accepting X applicants, it doesn't matter if last year you processed X+Y, you are only allowed to pass X this year.

And during that time there have been countless changes and shakeups in how CIC is processing apps, all of which are "management issues" that aren't the fault of the union or its members. We had countless form changes (all requiring procedural changes of course, and many returned apps, just check the forums), changes in the front end processing in Mississauga (and the disastrous Ottawa Pilot that nearly lost my application and DID lose others). There have been continuous rollouts of new GCMS versions. There have been office consolidations and increasing workloads. The processing manual they use was updated, no doubt requiring some adjustment from VO staffs, and lets not forget new legislative changes requiring other adjustments. We had a major overhaul to the medicals to bring in e-medicals which still have to show any kind of improvement over the old system. And finally, and not until this year, we can add the PAFSO job actions to the list. How you can blame all that on PAFSO baffles me. I have read enough about the changes they are making to know the real problems are with the government. I found it very annoying to watch a video of senior CIC people talk with almost religious zeal at how GCMS will revolutionize everything. It won't. If you have a bad system it doesn't matter how much you automate it.

You want a good example of how well the CIC automation works? I ordered CGMS notes using the automated online system. The system took my request and generated the report 2 days later. I guess they are batching their jobs so ok, 2 days isn't bad. Then the report SAT for a further 28 days until their email process sent it back to me. Now this looks to be an automated process, so why is it so slow? Couldn't the email process have picked up my report the next run (or next day, or even the next week?) So why did I have to wait for the maximum allowed time (and others here are getting theirs in more than the allowed 30 days)? Is that PAFSO being lazy too?

So no, the problem isn't PAFSO. And your "hard numbers" don't seem very compelling.

Nodding my head in complete agreement scos. Your paragraph 2 above really says it all. Of course this information is not included in the CIC data reports. Numbers can always be manipulated for a more positive interpretation. What folks really need to do is read some of the supplementary narrative from audits and evaluations of the visa office offices abroad if you want to see the bigger picture. It's no accident that CIC keeps these reports completely separate. All the better to try and throw the "average" taxpayer off the scent of connecting all of the relevant information.

 

[user828]

<a href="http://imgur.com/RMb9ptr"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/RMb9ptr.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Orly feeling sorely?

 

[user828]

Michelle Zilio ‏@MichelleZilio 1m
Treasury Board will enter arbitration to end foreign service strike | iPolitics http://bit.ly/19fQteK #cdnpoli #cdnfp #dipstrike

 

[lhb007]

Ankara office processing time has been doubled after the strike to 16 mounts now. Do you know if any facebook page or petition has been created to raise our concerns?

 

[Turkey2013]

Ankara office processing time has been doubled after the strike to 16 mounts now. Do you know if any facebook page or petition has been created to raise our concerns?

Hi lhb007

Ankara office processing time has not changed for a while now, it was 16 months and still is for a while now....

 

[nanediniz]

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/media/nr-cp/2013/0723-eng.asp

 

[orly]

Orly feeling sorely?

Still waiting for your in-depth analysis of the published data.

At your convenience.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Still waiting for your in-depth analysis of the published data.

At your convenience.

You missed my post?

There have been a few of us that have countered your position on the data. I even provided links to the CIC releases.

 

[costaudjoe]

Michelle Zilio ‏ @ MichelleZilio 1m
Treasury Board will enter arbitration to end foreign service strike | iPolitics http://bit.ly/19fQteK #cdnpoli #cdnfp #dipstrike

So the Treasury Board will enter arbitration under certain conditions. I would be curious to know what those conditions are. My feeling is it will be something that will hamstring negotiations...

 

[CdnandTrini]

Reply: Foreign Service - Strike?

Orly feeling sorely?

lol....Hello CJG, have you heard anything back from PAFSO re: the forum members debate about whether or not their the PAFSO members are indeed processing PR applications? A few of the senior members were vehemently stating that this had no impact at all, while many others disagreed with that interpretation. Glad to see you and your wife are enjoying your "landingmoon" I have put this question on a few threads as it seems it is being discussed in different spots.

Thanks.

 

[jwa007]

I'm on the government's side of this issue. Here's what clinched it for me:





“The problem is that after about [a decade] of service, these foreign service professionals are looking in the office next door to them and seeing economists and lawyers and social scientists who are making huge amounts of money more than them, and they’re deciding to take their hard earned skills and experience elsewhere.” - Tim Edwards, PAFSO President

“Lawyers, economists, policy analysts, commerce officers -- they all make much more than we do.” - Tim Edwards, PAFSO President


"There is only one key issue: equal pay for equal work. Foreign Service officers are subjected to a series of unfair and demoralizing wage gaps at all four levels of our pay scale compared to other federal professionals performing similar or identical work. These include economists, commerce officers, policy analysts, and lawyers." PAFSO Press Release - May 2013 (Avaliable at: http://pafso.com/_includes/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Aide%20Memoire%20%20Why%20Is%20Canada%20Foreign%20Service%20on%20Strike.pdf)





Mr. Edwards, if you wanted to be paid the same as a lawyer, you probably should have gone to law school and passed the bar exam.