+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Effective date of Bill C24

CanadianCountry

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2011
567
23
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02-02-2010
Doc's Request.
16-03-2010
AOR Received.
24-07-2010
File Transfer...
24-03-2010
Med's Request
Yes
Med's Done....
Yes
Passport Req..
Yes
VISA ISSUED...
Yes
LANDED..........
Yes
You have the right to believe whatever you want, so do others.

aries9811 said:
Stop discussing non-sense stuff ...!! and deviating the essence of this Post that's BILL C-24 !!! Rather than encouraging the prospective Canadians (PR Holders) it's like discouraging.. No one treats anyone like third world unless you making yurself feel like that !!! It's just the questioning at POE is alot for Non First World Category (including PRs) PRs are no different from Canadian PPT Holders. Cos everyone knows PR is the ONLY STEP OF GETTING CANADIAN PPT.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
aries9811,
How do you feel when the beloved Canada is treating the prospect citizenship applicants with NO OFFICIAL DEALINE to process a simple citizenship application?
Don't forget that until the Oath everyone is just a PR.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
CanadianCountry said:
The point is:
3. The 2nd class citizen argument doesnt apply, as PRs are not citizens. Paying tax but no citizenship doesnt apply, you work you pay tax wherever you live, dont work if you hate taxes.
You may want to revisit the definition of citizen.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/citizen

1 :an inhabitant of a city or town; especially :eek:ne entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2 a :a member of a state
b :a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it
3 :a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state

The highlight definition means that a PR is a citizen, as in a resident of Canada. So to argue that 2nd citizen doesn't apply to PR since he/she is not a citizen is incorrect.
 

aries9811

Hero Member
Jun 6, 2009
493
8
New York
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo-NY
NOC Code......
................
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Jan 27, 2010
Doc's Request.
March 17,2010 --> Documents Recieved @VO April 2,2010
Nomination.....
Not Applicable
AOR Received.
Second AOR 1st May 2010
IELTS Request
March 17,2010
File Transfer...
Nov 2, 2011
Med's Request
Jan 26,2012
Med's Done....
Received @Ottawa Feb 17,2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
May 10, 2012
VISA ISSUED...
June 2012
LANDED..........
August 2012
What I believe is everyone is running after PR-Citizenship etc...no matter who they are everyone will evaporate one day and it doesn't matter if they are PR Citizen Canadian or America or Third World, you know what I mean..!!

I know it's annoying but..after thinking so much..releasing that it doesn't matter as such there's not much we can do from our side other than spamming their email or faxing them about changing the Rules . But this is not even going to happen..and have the Govt change their mind.. So just relax..
 

CanadianCountry

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2011
567
23
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02-02-2010
Doc's Request.
16-03-2010
AOR Received.
24-07-2010
File Transfer...
24-03-2010
Med's Request
Yes
Med's Done....
Yes
Passport Req..
Yes
VISA ISSUED...
Yes
LANDED..........
Yes
You are confusing between "resident" and "citizen". A resident is not a citizen.

screech339 said:
You may want to revisit the definition of citizen.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/citizen

1 :an inhabitant of a city or town; especially :eek:ne entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2 a :a member of a state
b :a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it
3 :a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state

The highlight definition means that a PR is a citizen, as in a resident of Canada. So to argue that 2nd citizen doesn't apply to PR since he/she is not a citizen is incorrect.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
CanadianCountry said:
The point is:
1. To clarify a commonly held misbelief, that a PR is a Canadian because thats how you "feel". How somebody feels has nothing to do with reality.
2. To clarify the eagerness of some who think a PR is not a Canadian,want to be a Canadian in a real sense.
3. The 2nd class citizen argument doesnt apply, as PRs are not citizens. Paying tax but no citizenship doesnt apply, you work you pay tax wherever you live, dont work if you hate taxes.
4. To point out a disconnect between heart and mind. Imagine living at a place long enough to feel one way completely different from reality. Many dont like this and are eager to be the real Canadian.
My 2 cents is this:

I have no issue, none whatsoever, if a PR wants to become Canadian so that he/she can FEEL Canadian. That shows that PR embraces Canada and want to be a PROUD Canadian and sees Canada as her/his new adopted HOME. When you apply for citizenship you are, in a sense, MARRYING Canada, for good or bad. That is the main reason people should be applying for citizenship.

Not because someone is paying taxes. (Paying taxes has nothing to do with it). Not because getting Canadian Passport is the reason (that should be a secondary perk to being Canadian). Not to get Citizenship as a constellation prize. Not to get citizenship and take off and come back when you need medical benefits/social benefits when it suits you. Not because PR feels they are 2nd class citizen (or 2nd class resident, for political correct for canadiancountry's sake)

If you happen to fall under one of the examples, you are applying for Canadian citizenship for all the wrong reason.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
aries9811,
by the way I was planning to make a Poll (a small poll) with the same question for the recent new Canadians... "What exactly has changed since you became a Canadian?"
I am sure that for most of the people nothing has changed dramatically so all that thing with this citizenship is somehow overvalued in the heads of the people.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Sideshow regarding who is a "Canadian" versus who is not:

The Canadian government recognizes that Permanent Residents are Canadians NOT Foreign Nationals. IRPA, section 2, specifically defines "Foreign National" to mean a person who is not a Canadian citizen or PR. Additionally, the Charter specifically affords certain mobility rights to Permanent Residents (and more such rights to Canadian citizens) distinguishable from all others (typically referred to as "everyone" in the Charter).

When I landed, the POE officer who processed my landing completed the process by congratulating me, saying I was "now a Canadian" (which at the time confused me because to that point I thought to be "Canadian" meant being a Canadian citizen . . . leading me to do the research, to do my homework so to say).

But there is no great philosophical significance in such distinctions. The respective rights and entitlements and privileges and obligations vary greatly and are spelled out in numerous statutes and regulations. The Residency Obligation of a PR, for example, versus say the restrictions imposed on FNs who have visitor status; the mobility rights of a Canadian citizen versus those of a PR versus those of a FN (for the last, that is none, limited to what is provided by statute).

In any event, for purposes of Canadian law, in addition to the people of the First Nations there are Canadian citizens, Canadian PRs, and Foreign Nationals. What the respective status means is spelled out in numerous statutes and regulations, which, again, encompasses a great deal of variety. (Note, for example, that among Canadian PRs, there are further distinctions such as for PRs with conditions, who lose PR status if there is a failure to fulfill the condition.)





bkara said:
my timeline would be

applied : sept-2015
.
.
.
.
Oath : sept-2016,according to the statistical data from ontario,let`s say if I apply in Scarborough.

with the new law,
I`ll be eligible to apply for citizenship sept-2017.Do you think I`ll be done with all of this paperwork and stuff until sept-2018? (since the processing time suppose to be shorter with the new system of evaluating citizenship applications)
While others have adequately responded, such as the response by nadeem55, I would add:

It would be pure speculation to guess at the timeline for applications made in 2017. Moreover, it is quite likely that there will continue to be wide ranging variability in how long the process takes for any particular individual applicant. In the last year, for example, scores of applicants had timelines ranging from six to ten months (mine was eight months), but many, many others have seen much, much longer timelines. Routine timelines currently appear to range from six months to two years. And non-routine applications continue to vary even more.

I think some have noted that there is likely to be a huge decline in the number of new applications made in the months immediately following the date the revised residency provisions come into force, precisely because as of that date nearly all those who would have become qualified during the following months will not become qualified until a year later (or longer for those who could have counted pre-landing time). That may indeed enable CIC to clear its backlog and be prepared to more timely process applications in 2016 and later. Moreover, the nature of the revised qualifications, particularly in contrast to those now in effect (which allow credit for pre-landing time in Canada, and allows applications to be made based on less than 1095 days actual presence), will likely facilitate more decisive screening at the early stages of processing, which should mean more efficient and timely processing. But it is not beyond CIC to slip into disarray dealing with change, so there is no guarantee future processing times will tend to be less-than-a-year let alone merely six months, even though they should.




Some observations about the coming into force date itself:

The coming into force date of the revised statutory provisions will be specified in an order by the Governor in Council. That order must be published in the Gazette.

The regulatory changes may be made and registered before the coming into force date of the SCCA (parts not yet in force), with the regulatory changes to become effective as of the date that the respective provisions in the SCCA come into force.

Thus, the recent notices in the Gazette as to proposed regulatory changes are mostly a clue that tends to indicate that the statutory provisions will not come into force before the comment period (as to proposed regulations) expires (thus, most likely not before May 1st). But they do not offer much of a clue beyond that, except to reflect that the government is taking the necessary steps toward implementation. In particular, the registration of the regulatory changes will not necessarily indicate the imminent coming into force date of the statutory provisions.


Reminder:

The Governor in Council's Order prescribing the coming into force date for the provisions which took effect last August 1, 2014 was made just the day before, on July 31st. It was not published in the Gazette until . . . I forget, but it was well into the month. CIC, however, posted news of the changes online at the CIC website during the day August 1.

That could easily be what happens this time, no actual notice before it happens.

That said, I think the experience with the increased fees without notice, in February 2014, appears to have been a teaching moment given CIC's more recent approach to increasing the fees, for which there was substantial notice; while the amount of notice may not be what many hope, I would expect at least a week's notice, perhaps a little more . . . but there is no guarantee, particularly since in general this government (as PMM noted) tends to give no or minimal notice as to the date new legislation is implemented.

On the other hand, relative to other legislative enactments I have seen a number of orders published in the Gazette, within the last several months or so of 2014, in which the coming into force date for various statutory provisions has been ordered, and the order published, significantly in advance of the coming into force date itself.

While the individual departments probably have some say, some influence, in what the Prime Minister's Office and Cabinet decide will be the date ordered by the Governor in Council, the coming into force date of this legislation is not a decision made by CIC but rather by the Prime Minister's Office in counsel with selected members of the Cabinet, in form by the "Governor in Council."


Query:

It has been quite a long while since I laboured over a number of the particular provisions in the SCCA. My recall is there was little doubt that applications received before the date the revised section 5(1) came into force would be governed by the current requirements. I was revisiting this in an effort to more precisely discern whether the critical date is the date the application is signed or the date it is actually received at CIC. I suspect there are many who would like confirmation regarding which it is. I have usually assumed that the date actually received was the critical date, but am less sure of this now . . . section 13 of the Citizenship Act (a provision of the SCCA which came into force last August) does not make it as clear as I was thinking it did. Any further insight?
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
CanadianCountry said:
You are confusing between "resident" and "citizen". A resident is not a citizen.
So who falls under the "citizens of Ontario". Only Canadians or "residents of Ontario".

Citizen

From the Latin word civitas meaning city. A citizen is an inhabitant of a province or country who has certain rights and responsibilities.
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
dpenabill said:
Query:

It has been quite a long while since I laboured over a number of the particular provisions in the SCCA. My recall is there was little doubt that applications received before the date the revised section 5(1) came into force would be governed by the current requirements. I was revisiting this in an effort to more precisely discern whether the critical date is the date the application is signed or the date it is actually received at CIC. I suspect there are many who would like confirmation regarding which it is. I have usually assumed that the date actually received was the critical date, but am less sure of this now . . . section 13 of the Citizenship Act (a provision of the SCCA which came into force last August) does not make it as clear as I was thinking it did. Any further insight?
Based on my talks with the call centre supervisor (because I just don't trust the regular call clerks) I have the same information, that the critical date is still the date they actually receive the application in Sydney.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
dpenabill said:
Sideshow regarding who is a "Canadian" versus who is not:

The Canadian government recognizes that Permanent Residents are Canadians NOT Foreign Nationals. IRPA, section 2, specifically defines "Foreign National" to mean a person who is not a Canadian citizen or PR. Additionally, the Charter specifically affords certain mobility rights to Permanent Residents (and more such rights to Canadian citizens) distinguishable from all others (typically referred to as "everyone" in the Charter).

When I landed, the POE officer who processed my landing completed the process by congratulating me, saying I was "now a Canadian" (which at the time confused me because to that point I thought to be "Canadian" meant being a Canadian citizen . . . leading me to do the research, to do my homework so to say).

But there is no great philosophical significance in such distinctions. The respective rights and entitlements and privileges and obligations vary greatly and are spelled out in numerous statutes and regulations. The Residency Obligation of a PR, for example, versus say the restrictions imposed on FNs who have visitor status; the mobility rights of a Canadian citizen versus those of a PR versus those of a FN (for the last, that is none, limited to what is provided by statute).

In any event, for purposes of Canadian law, in addition to the people of the First Nations there are Canadian citizens, Canadian PRs, and Foreign Nationals. What the respective status means is spelled out in numerous statutes and regulations, which, again, encompasses a great deal of variety. (Note, for example, that among Canadian PRs, there are further distinctions such as for PRs with conditions, who lose PR status if there is a failure to fulfill the condition.)
Thank you dpenabill clearing up the issue.

In this case I guess the saying:

"You are a Canadian, once you are in Canada" doesn't matter your status"
really does apply.
 

asaif

Hero Member
Sep 3, 2010
554
47
London, ON
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
A PR is not a citizen, not even a 2nd-class citizen! That's why we apply for "citizenship" to become "citizens"!!

I would argue that a 2nd-class citizen is in a better position than a PR. As a PR you are subject to deportation by an administrative order, not even a court ruling, whereas a citizen can't be removed from Canada no matter what. PRs is a transitional stage between residency and citizenship.

I lived in a GCC state for 25 years before coming to Canada, worked in the government, enjoyed most services just like citizens, didn't pay taxes, but never considered myself a citizen or even a PR, cause I could just be asked to leave the country at any moment. Many people seek Canadian citizenship just for this reason: to have a place (other than their disastrous countries of origin) where they can live without worrying about being asked to leave it one day. Unfortunately, the PR status doesn't provide that, and that's why the seek citizenship.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
asaif said:
A PR is not a citizen, not even a 2nd-class citizen! That's why we apply for "citizenship" to become "citizens"!!
I think it is more appropriate to say:

That's why we apply for "citizenship" to become "CANADIANS".

Citizens have multiple meanings, including "residence of a location"
 

MUFC

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2014
1,223
214
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
screech339 said:
I think it is more appropriate to say this:

That's why we apply for "citizenship" to become "CANADIANS".
But we are already Canadians (We got our PR).
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,887
552
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013