Effective date of Bill C24

[meyakanor]

Just checked the UK citizenship requirement. They consider 4 years of pre-PR time. Each day of pre-PR time is counted as full day in UK.

And Finland too

If you had a temporary residence permit (B permit) before you obtained a continuous residence permit, half the time you lived in Finland with a temporary residence permit will be counted as residential time. You must have had a continuous residence permit (A permit) for at least one year just before a decision is made on your application. The time you have spent in Finland with a temporary residence permit (B-permit) will only be included in the continuous period of residence.

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period/calculating_residential_time

A day under a temporary residence permit counts half toward fulfilling citizenship requirement. Sounds familiar?

 

[MUFC]

And Finland too

A day under a temporary residence permit counts half toward fulfilling citizenship requirement. Sounds familiar?

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period/calculating_residential_time

Accumulated period of residence

If your continuous period of residence is interrupted, your periods of residence in Finland will be taken into account as an accumulated period of residence. The accumulated period of residence may consist of several periods of residence in Finland. The required total period is a minimum of seven years. Of this time, you must have lived in Finland continuously for the past two years. If your period of residence is calculated as having been accumulated over several periods, the periods of absence over the last two years must not exceed eight months. The time you have spent in Finland with a temporary residence permit (B-permit) will not be included in the accumulated period of residence.


http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period

A requirement for citizenship is that you live in Finland and that you have done so for a sufficient length of time (period of residence). Exceptions to the residential period requirement may be made in individual cases.

Your period of residence is of sufficient length if you have lived in Finland
for the last five years without interruption (continuous period of residence)


This is the general case scenario back home

 

[meyakanor]

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period/calculating_residential_time

Accumulated period of residence

If your continuous period of residence is interrupted, your periods of residence in Finland will be taken into account as an accumulated period of residence. The accumulated period of residence may consist of several periods of residence in Finland. The required total period is a minimum of seven years. Of this time, you must have lived in Finland continuously for the past two years. If your period of residence is calculated as having been accumulated over several periods, the periods of absence over the last two years must not exceed eight months. The time you have spent in Finland with a temporary residence permit (B-permit) will not be included in the accumulated period of residence.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that, if one has continuously resided in Ireland, all pre-PR time will be counted towards fulfilling residency requirement. It is completely possible for students, for example, to stay in the country uninteruptedly. In Finland, let's say you stay in the country continuously for 5 years as a student, then after becoming a PR, you only need to stay another 3 years to apply for citizenship.

In order to acquire Finnish citizenship, you must have lived in Finland continuously for five years. A period of residence on a continuous permit (Permit A) is counted in full in calculating the residence period. One half of the residence period on Permit B is taken into account. Furthermore, you must have resided in Finland on a continuous permit for a period of one year or longer before a decision is made on your application.
You have accumulated acceptable residence time in the amount of 2 years on Permit B and 4 years on Permit A, that is, a total of 6 years. You meet the residency requirement and may acquire Finnish citizenship.

 

[meyakanor]

And the website too has properly defined exactly what is meant by 'continuous residence':

The following periods of absence will not interrupt your continuous period of residence:

absences that last a maximum of one month
a maximum of six periods of absence that last 1–2 months each
a maximum of two periods of absence that last 2–6 months each

http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship/applying_for_citizenship/requirements/residence_period/trips_outside_finland

So in Finland, technically, it is possible to apply for citizenship ONE year after getting a PR status. Likewise in Australia and the UK. Likewise in Ireland. There are four countries, four so-called first world countries that we have found, where you can qualify to apply for citizenship less than four years after getting a PR. Now tell me again, these countries have 'cheaper' citizenships than Canada?

 

[MUFC]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that, if one has continuously resided in Ireland, all pre-PR time will be counted towards fulfilling residency requirement. It is completely possible for students, for example, to stay in the country uninteruptedly. In Finland, let's say you stay in the country continuously for 5 years as a student, then after becoming a PR, you only need to stay another 3 years to apply for citizenship.

The reality is that back home those who are relying too much in the time with B-permit have really difficult time to be granted with citizenship.

The fast track and the common general case is to apply after 5 years on A-permit only.

 

[screech339]

UK, Ireland, and Finland also allow that.

So you are using EEA nationals to qualify for citizenship. Geee I wish I could get that as I am not EEA national. So you are trying to use EEA as an example.

Remember everyone in Canada regardless of their status in Canada before PR can claim time towards citizenship. In other words, everyone both EEA nationals and non-EEA nationals can claim pre-PR days toward citizenship under the old rule.

So until UK, Ireland and Finland can accept all nationals's claim of Pre-PR towards citizenship, you have no comparison. So far ONLY Australia is the only country that accept Pre-PR days from every PR including non-EEA nationals.

 

[meyakanor]

So you are using EEA nationals to qualify for citizenship. Geee I wish I could get that as I am not EEA national. So you are trying to use EEA as an example.

Remember everyone in Canada regardless of their status in Canada before PR can claim time towards citizenship. In other words, everyone both EEA nationals and non-EEA nationals can claim pre-PR days toward citizenship under the old rule.

So until UK, Ireland and Finland can accept all nationals's claim of Pre-PR towards citizenship, you have no comparison. So far ONLY Australia is the only country that accept Pre-PR days from every PR including non-EEA nationals.

Can you point me to the any official source that only EEA nationals can apply pre-PR time for these countries? In Finland, for example, you don't need to be an EEA national to obtain a B permit. Likewise in the UK, show me the part which states only EEA nationals can only count residency after being granted indefinite leave to remain.

They do have separate rules for EEA nationals, but what I and CanadianCountry have quoted are for generic purposes, including non-EEA nationals. So so far, UK, Ireland, Australia and Finland accept pre-PR time towards citizenship requirements. Cheap citizenships indeed.

 

[MUFC]

Can you point me to the any source that only EEA nationals can apply pre-PR time for these countries? In Finland, for example, you don't need to be an EEA national to obtain a B permit. Likewise in the UK, show me the part which states only EEA nationals can only count residency after being granted indefinite leave to remain.

They do have separate rules for EEA nationals, but what I and CanadianCountry have quoted are for generic purposes, including non-EEA nationals. So so far, UK, Ireland, Australia and Finland accept pre-PR time towards citizenship requirements. Cheap citizenships indeed.

Try to take my native citizenship by representing outside of EU countries and by using time under B-permit. See for yourself how works in practice and after that we can continue the comparison which citizenship is easier to be actually granted at the end.

 

[screech339]

Can you point me to the any official source that only EEA nationals can apply pre-PR time for these countries? In Finland, for example, you don't need to be an EEA national to obtain a B permit. Likewise in the UK, show me the part which states only EEA nationals can only count residency after being granted indefinite leave to remain.

They do have separate rules for EEA nationals, but what I and CanadianCountry have quoted are for generic purposes, including non-EEA nationals. So so far, UK, Ireland, Australia and Finland accept pre-PR time towards citizenship requirements. Cheap citizenships indeed.

So ILR is the same as being PR of UK. Again I don't see any claim that using time before being granted ILR can be used towards citizenship (Pre-PR).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_leave_to_remain

 

[meyakanor]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/416716/Chapter_18.pdf

Under the residency requirements, it was stated that, at the date of application, the applicant is

a. in the UK at the beginning of the period of 5 years ending with the date of the application; and
b. not absent from the UK for more than 450 days in that 5 year period; and
c. not absent from the UK for more than 90 days in the period of 12 months ending with the date of the application; and
d. not, on the date of the application, subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period of stay in the UK; and
e. not, at any other time in the 12 month period ending with the date of the application, subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period of stay in the UK; and
f. not, at any time in the period of 5 years ending with the date of the application, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

The highlighted parts(especially part e) imply that ILR only needs to obtained within at least the last 12 months. Before that, as long as the applicant had been legally in the UK, then the applicant would have satisfied the residency requirements.

Wikipedia parses the laws, and writes them in a very easy to understand language, so lay people like me can understand it better

For those not married to or in a civil partnership with a British citizen, the requirements are:

Five years' legal residence in the UK
Indefinite leave to remain or "equivalent" for this purpose (see above) must have been held for 12 months
the applicant must intend to continue to live in the UK or work overseas for the UK government or a British corporation or association
the same "good character" standards apply as for those married to British citizens
the same language and knowledge of life in the UK standards apply as for those married to British citizens

 

[screech339]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/416716/Chapter_18.pdf

Under the residency requirements, it was stated that, at the date of application, the applicant is

a. in the UK at the beginning of the period of 5 years ending with the date of the application; and
b. not absent from the UK for more than 450 days in that 5 year period; and
c. not absent from the UK for more than 90 days in the period of 12 months ending with the date of the application; and
d. not, on the date of the application, subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period of stay in the UK; and
e. not, at any other time in the 12 month period ending with the date of the application, subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period of stay in the UK; and
f. not, at any time in the period of 5 years ending with the date of the application, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws.

The highlighted parts(especially part e) imply that ILR only needs to obtained within at least the last 12 months. Before that, as long as the applicant had been legally in the UK, then the applicant would have satisfied the residency requirements.

Wikipedia parses the laws, and writes them in a very easy to understand language, so lay people like me can understand it better

So basically say a guy like me apply for UK citizenship, with no connection to UK through marriage or relations, can apply for citizenship after 5 years assuming holding work permit and assuming I get ILR the next day after I apply.

Wow, it will still take me at least FIVE years to get citizenship. I am sure it will take me more than 5 years as i'm sure there is a timeline to get granted ILR after applying for ILR.

It's funny that you are using the UK citizenship law as an example and yet it's contains the "intend to reside" clause.

I have no problem if you want to use the UK example. We can change the law so that you must be in Canada for FIVE years including time you spent before PR. That's additional year or two under the old rule. Under the old rule, you qualify for citizenship after 2 years as PR including 2 years pre-PR days. With the UK rule, you have to "wait for it, wait for it", wait one additional year.

Geee, that's pretty much what we have now. Make everyone wait one additional year.

 

[meyakanor]

So basically say a guy like me apply for UK citizenship, with no connection to UK through marriage or relations, can apply for citizenship after 5 years assuming holding work permit and assuming I get ILR the next day after I apply.

Wow, it will still take me at least FIVE years to get citizenship. I am sure it will take me more than 5 years as i'm sure there is a timeline to get granted ILR after applying for ILR.

It's funny that you are using the UK citizenship law as an example and yet it's contains the "intend to reside" clause.

I have no problem if you want to use the UK example. We can change the law so that you must be in Canada for FIVE years including time you spent before PR.

I was replying to MUFC regarding the length of time one has to stay in Canada AFTER becoming a permanent resident.

Somebody was arguing that the value of Canadian citizenship was too 'cheap' because you only need to stay four years AFTER becoming a PR to apply for citizenship. I simply disagreed with this point, as several other first-world countries have even 'cheaper' citizenships if our yardstick is only how long one has to spend AFTER becoming a PR.

We were strictly talking about the time AFTER becoming a permanent resident before one qualifies to apply for citizenship.

I agree with you. If both UK PR and Canadian PR have no pre-PR time, it'll probably take longer to get UK citizenship than Canadian citizenship, but that's not what we are discussing.

After becoming PR, technically, a UK ILR holder can apply only 12 months after being granted that status, whereas for Canada, regardless if you have been in the country for decades, one still has to wait for at least four more years.

Just to make my point clearer, for people who became PRs years after they started living in Canada, they would have qualified one or two years faster under the UK rule. I was under student visa for four years before becoming a PR, and I know several people who had been here for three or four years under work permit before becoming PRs themselves. For these people, under the UK rule, they would have qualified much faster to apply for citizenship, even when compared with the old Canadian rules.

Under the UK rule, I would have qualified to apply for citizenship last year. Under the old Canadian rule, it would be this year, and under the new Canadian rule, it's 2017. So yeah, the UK rules would have made it easier for a lot of people to qualify for citizenship, despite having the five year residency requirement.

 

[screech339]

After becoming PR, technically, a UK ILR holder can apply only 12 months after being granted that status, whereas for Canada, regardless if you have been in the country for decades, one still has to wait for at least four more years.

So it's not 5 years for me to get UK citizenship. It's at least 6 years. 5 years to qualify for ILR, assuming I get ILR next day and waiting another year as ILR before I can apply for UK citizenship. Wow, that's SIX years at least.

And PR of Canada are complaining about 1 additional year or 2? We are talking 4 years to qualify. Even under the old rule, it takes a PR at least 4 years and they can't wait 1 additional year if we adopted UK law qualification.

 

[MUFC]

Exactly,

The time a person needs to stay and to get citizenship is still the shortest in Canada compared to the other 1st World countries.

 

[zardoz]

So it's not 5 years for me to get UK citizenship. It's at least 6 years. 5 years to qualify for ILR, assuming I get ILR next day and waiting another year as ILR before I can apply for UK citizenship. Wow, that's SIX years at least.

And PR of Canada are complaining about 1 additional year or 2? We are talking 4 years to qualify. Even under the old rule, it takes a PR at least 4 years and they can't wait 1 additional year if we adopted UK law qualification.

To add to that, you must physically reside for 185 days of each of those 5 years. None of this 2 out of 5 nonsense...