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Delayed Applications - Citizenship test taken outside Canada

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
You no longer have to be present in Canada to even complete the oath ceremony - it can be done from abroad with no problems (change since May 2023).

I think these "delays" are purely coincidental...
 

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
I have been outside Canada right after submission i.e. Jan 2022 and even gave my FP and Test outside Canada.
After an excruciatingly delay, i had my LPP completed on 24th.
Was the information in the CBSA, Privacy Act or IRCC, Access to Information Act ever helpful? If so, what relevant information did they provide.
Finally, how do you request this information, and what does it cost?
 

jack150

Star Member
Feb 7, 2016
80
23
I gave the test outside Canada and will be giving a video interview soon.

Has anyone given a video interview before?

Should I expect to be asked only about my documents and travel during the eligibility period or should I prepare to answer questions about my travel post application submission as well?
When you received the interview invite did you go back to IRCC and request it to be via video? Or was it a video interview by default?

I'm expecting to be interviewed and hoping it can just be over video rather than fly back for it.
 

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
I have been outside Canada right after submission i.e. Jan 2022 and even gave my FP and Test outside Canada.
After an excruciatingly delay, i had my LPP completed on 24th.
Did you order to gcms notes? Did you see that these delays are related to you being outside Canada?
 

bas12

Hero Member
Apr 20, 2018
369
122
You no longer have to be present in Canada to even complete the oath ceremony - it can be done from abroad with no problems (change since May 2023).

I think these "delays" are purely coincidental...
There were several posts on the forum around May-July from people who were told that their application was classified as non-routine, because of them taking the test outside of Canada in 2022. The agents were presenting it like it was their fault that they made things more difficult for IRCC, and now they will be paying for it with delays of unpredictable length.

Could be that this is no longer the case for people who do this now?

Though you can have delays unrelated to this of course, I did very little travel, and did the test in Canada, and still they haven't touched my application for a year after the test, and haven't started working on LPP until I filed mandamus.
 
Last edited:

chanakyashah

Hero Member
May 3, 2017
274
111
You no longer have to be present in Canada to even complete the oath ceremony - it can be done from abroad with no problems (change since May 2023).

I think these "delays" are purely coincidental...
Can you share a link with me that says this?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
You no longer have to be present in Canada to even complete the oath ceremony - it can be done from abroad with no problems (change since May 2023).

I think these "delays" are purely coincidental...
There is still no clear indication of who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants for citizenship may be allowed to take the oath while outside Canada.

Note, in particular, if the applicant is scheduled for an in-person oath they must attend the oath ceremony IN Canada. These events are scheduled ONLY in Canada. There has been no indication that individuals scheduled for an in-person ceremony can request a virtual ceremony and be allowed to participate in that while abroad.

While there have been quite a few anecdotal reports about being allowed to participate in taking the oath online while abroad, again there is no where near enough to get a clear view of who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants for citizenship may be allowed to take the oath while outside Canada.

Oath outside Canada is a subject addressed in numerous topics, including discussion about proposed changes in the regulations which might lead (emphasis on might, not necessarily "will" lead) to regularly allowing applicants to participate in taking the oath while outside Canada. As of August 21, however, these changes have not been implemented even though they were expected to be adopted as of June. See regulations 19 to 24, governing the oath, here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-93-246/page-2.html#h-952206


Did you order to gcms notes? Did you see that these delays are related to you being outside Canada?
Standard request for GCMS notes will NOT reveal any information that would illuminate whether there are delays related to an applicant being outside Canada. Even a carefully crafted customized ATIP request is NOT likely to reveal such information.

If the processing agent or citizenship officer involved in processing the citizenship application has any concerns related to the applicant being outside Canada, those concerns will most likely involve verification of actual physical presence. Obviously, applicants who are subject to RQ-related requests, ranging from particular requests in RQ-lite (CIT 0520), to the full blown residence questionnaire (CIT 0171), are aware that their physical presence is being questioned; that is, while the client copy of GCMS will show these, respectively, the applicant does not need to obtain a copy of GCMS to know they have been sent such requests.

However, there is no way of knowing for sure that being RQ'd is related to being outside Canada; applicants will not be advised and generally cannot learn why they got RQ'd. That said, history tends to suggest there can be a significant if not strong correlation between RQ and applicant relocation outside Canada, depending on additional factors (not everyone outside Canada is subject to elevated scrutiny let alone RQ).

It is more difficult to discern if IRCC has initiated an investigation into the applicant's physical presence without making any RQ-related requests. Investigations are confidential and strictly outside the scope of information that will be shared with the client. So there is no way for an applicant to find out if their application is subject to investigatory non-routine processing, which can range from the processing agent cross-checking the applicant's information with other sources, including open sources (LinkedIn is one of those most often mentioned in official cases), to more robust and extensive investigations, including a referral to CBSA and its NSSD to conduct a formal investigation . . . and again, the applicant is not able to obtain any information from IRCC that this is happening, let alone information about its scope or status.

Of course, if the investigation leads to IRCC contesting the applicant's account of physical presence, the applicant will know of this pursuant to how IRCC processes the case, ranging from notice of an interview (more than just the standard PI Interview) to notice of a hearing with a citizenship officer, or if that does not resolve presence questions, a Citizenship Judge hearing. Generally applicants who actually met the physical presence requirement will not run into this, rather after concluding its investigations IRCC will proceed with final processing leading to the grant of citizenship.
 

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
Standard request for GCMS notes will NOT reveal any information that would illuminate whether there are delays related to an applicant being outside Canada. Even a carefully crafted customized ATIP request is NOT likely to reveal such information.
This is not true at all. Just ordered GCMS notes and there is literally a section named "UNAVAILABILITY." Someone else has posted about it here - they're also outside of Canada:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/gcms-with-unavailability.758350/
 

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
There is still no clear indication of who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants for citizenship may be allowed to take the oath while outside Canada.

Note, in particular, if the applicant is scheduled for an in-person oath they must attend the oath ceremony IN Canada. These events are scheduled ONLY in Canada. There has been no indication that individuals scheduled for an in-person ceremony can request a virtual ceremony and be allowed to participate in that while abroad.

While there have been quite a few anecdotal reports about being allowed to participate in taking the oath online while abroad, again there is no where near enough to get a clear view of who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants for citizenship may be allowed to take the oath while outside Canada.

Oath outside Canada is a subject addressed in numerous topics, including discussion about proposed changes in the regulations which might lead (emphasis on might, not necessarily "will" lead) to regularly allowing applicants to participate in taking the oath while outside Canada. As of August 21, however, these changes have not been implemented even though they were expected to be adopted as of June. See regulations 19 to 24, governing the oath, here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-93-246/page-2.html#h-952206




Standard request for GCMS notes will NOT reveal any information that would illuminate whether there are delays related to an applicant being outside Canada. Even a carefully crafted customized ATIP request is NOT likely to reveal such information.

If the processing agent or citizenship officer involved in processing the citizenship application has any concerns related to the applicant being outside Canada, those concerns will most likely involve verification of actual physical presence. Obviously, applicants who are subject to RQ-related requests, ranging from particular requests in RQ-lite (CIT 0520), to the full blown residence questionnaire (CIT 0171), are aware that their physical presence is being questioned; that is, while the client copy of GCMS will show these, respectively, the applicant does not need to obtain a copy of GCMS to know they have been sent such requests.

However, there is no way of knowing for sure that being RQ'd is related to being outside Canada; applicants will not be advised and generally cannot learn why they got RQ'd. That said, history tends to suggest there can be a significant if not strong correlation between RQ and applicant relocation outside Canada, depending on additional factors (not everyone outside Canada is subject to elevated scrutiny let alone RQ).

It is more difficult to discern if IRCC has initiated an investigation into the applicant's physical presence without making any RQ-related requests. Investigations are confidential and strictly outside the scope of information that will be shared with the client. So there is no way for an applicant to find out if their application is subject to investigatory non-routine processing, which can range from the processing agent cross-checking the applicant's information with other sources, including open sources (LinkedIn is one of those most often mentioned in official cases), to more robust and extensive investigations, including a referral to CBSA and its NSSD to conduct a formal investigation . . . and again, the applicant is not able to obtain any information from IRCC that this is happening, let alone information about its scope or status.

Of course, if the investigation leads to IRCC contesting the applicant's account of physical presence, the applicant will know of this pursuant to how IRCC processes the case, ranging from notice of an interview (more than just the standard PI Interview) to notice of a hearing with a citizenship officer, or if that does not resolve presence questions, a Citizenship Judge hearing. Generally applicants who actually met the physical presence requirement will not run into this, rather after concluding its investigations IRCC will proceed with final processing leading to the grant of citizenship.
This whole wall of text just sounds like you're confused between physical presence (which is mandatory) vs being outside of Canada after submitting citizenship application (which is allowed)...
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
This is not true at all. Just ordered GCMS notes and there is literally a section named "UNAVAILABILITY." Someone else has posted about it here - they're also outside of Canada:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/gcms-with-unavailability.758350/
Sorry. You are correct. Details are indeed important. Applicants who have informed IRCC that they will be outside Canada for a particular period of time, or that they are otherwise unavailable to attend an oath ceremony in Canada during a particular period of time, may have notation of this in their GCMS, that they are unavailable to attend oath. And true enough, that can cause a delay in scheduling the oath.

The context I was addressing, and to be clear is true, is whether living or extended periods outside Canada have influenced the process resulting in non-routine processing and subsequent delays. This is not about applicants who are traveling outside Canada but about those who are living or otherwise relocated outside Canada. Which, as I tried to describe, is largely (but not entirely) about whether living outside Canada is a factor raising concerns or questions about the PR's actual physical presence. If so, when this happens, if in conjunction with other factors the applicant outside Canada is the subject of an investigation as to physical presence, this will NOT show up in the client's copy of GCMS records.


This whole wall of text just sounds like you're confused between physical presence (which is mandatory) vs being outside of Canada after submitting citizenship application (which is allowed)...
No, I am not confused about this. I have been following this and related aspects of how various factors can influence the processing of a citizenship application for many years, through many transitions in the law, based not just on forum discussions and anecdotal reports, but researching actual cases in officially published sources as well as carefully reviewing (and keeping up to date with) the applicable law (that is, statutes and regulations in addition to the case law), operational manuals and bulletins, PDIs (Program Delivery Instructions) and many other sources.

It warrants avoiding being confused about what is required for a grant of citizenship versus what might be a negative factor triggering elevated scrutiny and non-routine processing that can involve delays. After all, the applicant who has 1096 days of actual physical presence meets the qualifying requirements the same as the applicant who has 1381 days of actual physical presence, but the former undoubtedly has a significantly higher risk IRCC will be taking a closer look and potentially facing RQ-related non-routine processing, and delays.

It bears emphasizing: "reasons-to-question-residency" are not limited to what meets or fails to meet the requirements.

There are, in particular, many factors that can and will influence the degree of scrutiny applied by IRCC processing citizenship applications, the more formal ones set forth in the "triage criteria" used by IRCC (which is confidential information; last version divulged to the public is many years old now and clearly out-of-date). While it appears that living outside Canada after applying (not to be confused with merely traveling outside Canada) is nowhere near as big a negative factor as it once was, it is not at all clear that it is no longer a negative factor at all. Plenty of correlating indicators that in conjunction with other circumstances it is likely a factor in some IRCC decision-making to further investigate this or that applicant, which again would be non-routine processing that is not reflected in the version of GCMS notes shared with the client.

Historically, until relatively recently living outside Canada has been a big factor in who got RQ'd. Not a for sure trigger, except for a period of time between early 2012 and sometime in 2013, when the triage criteria mandated RQ for any applicant who reported self-employment or employment as a consultant, and who traveled outside Canada let alone lived outside Canada during their eligibility period. Then there was that short period of time during which living outside Canada after applying was a stand-alone ground for denying the application, which was technically June 2015 to October 2017, but in practical terms just June 2015 to December 2015, until the new Trudeau government stopped enforcing the continuing to reside in Canada requirement (finally effecting a total repeal as of October 2017).

In any event, while it readily appears that living outside Canada while the application is pending is lot less a negative factor recently, it still appears to be connected (in conjunction with other factors) to non-routine processing and delays in SOME cases. Since responses to ATIP requests will not reveal any information at all about investigatory matters, it is very difficult to map how much influence this has now.
 

PianoTiger

Star Member
Oct 5, 2017
142
15
I just found this thread.. didn't realise doing the test outside Canada potentially caused delays like this.

For people who had an interview after their test, how long did you typically wait? I'd really hope that if they are delaying applications for people outside Canada they at least tell you? I temporarily moved back to my home country shortly after applying but will be coming back to Canada.. just don't know exactly when. The plan was to fly back after getting LPP.

Timelines:

Type: Online application
Processing office: Vancouver
Physical Presence Days: 1097
Application: Single
Application sent: Feb 27th 2023
Delivered: Feb 14th
AOR: March 16th
Background check: April 15th
Test Invitation: May 8th (test window May 10th - 30th)
Passed Citizenship test: May 15th
Test complete: May 24th
Passport request: June 2nd, sent same day. I actually received two additional passport requests (the exact same request email) on June 23rd and August 1st but IRCC responded saying it was a glitch.
Any updates?
 

destiny2016

Star Member
Jan 30, 2016
117
28
Canada
Same here , more than two years now and still waiting for LPP to be completed. When I call IRCC, they only give me generic responses saying that some applications take above the average processing time. Let us hope we get good news very soon.
I am not sure if taking the test outside led to my delayed processing, but I had no other choice back in September 2021 other than taking the test outside of Canada.

However, I am all done now! Received my Oath Invitation!!! The Citizenship journey is completed successfully :)

Good Luck guys!