Canada Post

[aerogurl87]

With the way some people have painted the everyday life for a postal worker, I keep imagining them as being replicas of Santa Claus who are decked out in postal service attire. Carrying their bag full of goodies (mail) around on their shoulders all day and slaving away to make sure everyone is happy by the end of the day.

 

[CrazyLucy]

Oh no, your point was quite clear, workers should have no right to try to get better conditions for themselves, they should be happy for the crumbs thrown to them. But hey, nice to know you really do support serfdom and slavery as long as its legal....

Way to put words in my mouth. I didnt say I support it. I said it happens. And all those are illegal in the western world, so I dont know what your point is.

 

[toby]

God forbid the peons stand up for themselves. Go back to fantasizing about the good old days of serfdom, slavery and child labour....

Bangkokcanuck wasn't supporting slavery; how did you leap to that conclusion? He was merely questioning the unsupported statement that striking is a fundamental human right.

If the person can support the claim by citing references (e.g. a UN Declaration, a high school poem, etc etc), then we all can judge for ourselves and we become wiser, better educated.

But if the claim was a simple attempt to give striking a bogus respectablity, then we need to know that too.

Asking someone to back up a claim is part if discussion; if the claimant takes offense at it, that usually is a defensive reaction designed to blow dust in our eyes, hide the fact that there is no substance to the claim.

And where is the claimant in all this (sorry, I've forgotten the name of the poster)? Silence in the face of a request for proof is eloquent too.

 

[toby]

In a Capitalist society, wages are determined and paid based on the value given to the job by that same society and what the market can bear.

True, but only up to a point. WHen a union of an essential service like the postal service strikes, it is holding society to ransom, hoping to create enough pressure that the Government will capitulate. In years gone by, this tactic worked, and postal workers achieved benefits beyond what comparable workers in the private sector had. Was this justice or greed at work?

The proof of this is that when the Government loosened the monopoly on mail services that the posties had enjoyed previously, the private-sector workers did the job (e.g. distributing leaflets, packages) faster and cheaper. Of course, the workers got lower pay and benefits. Was this justice? Yes, by your argument, since capitalist forces determined the wages.

By extension of this logic, then, if posties are getting paid above the private-sector scale, that is NOT according to capitalist forces; it is due to the distorting influence of the postal union.


The society pays the most for what it wants the most. Think about some of the highest paid people in our society. They are actors, singers, models, and athletes. A university degree is not necessary for any of those jobs last I heard. Talent, athletic ability and good genetics go into their job descriptions. The President of the United States is paid less per year than Gisele Bundchen. But then I guess Mr. Obama doesn't look quite as good in a Victoria Secret's bra. A plastic surgeon specializing in boob jobs and botox injections makes more than say, Harald zur Hausen. Don't recognize his name? He's the Nobel Laureate who discovered the human papilloma viruses that cause cervical cancer.

The wage rate of unskilled labour is also determined by who pays the bills. Unskilled labour in the oil patch of northern Alberta and it's offshoot industries can earn between $50 and $100K a year. Why? Because the oil companies can and will pay it due to society's over consumption and excessive demand for petroleum products.

True again. The unskilled oil-rig worker is paid more than the car washer because conditions are more dangerous and harsh. It's not just because oil companies have more money that the oil-rigger gets paid well; it's because the conditions are so harsh that the companies MUST offer money to attract workers. If an employer were offering me $50K to work an oil rig, or $50K to deliver mail, I'd opt for the latter in a flash. Only with the distorting help of union strikes can the postie get as much as an oil-rig worker.


I'm glad Canada Post is going back to work. I'm sure most of the workers are too as well as management. CP is in no danger of going bankrupt and the workers can go back to earning a living, paying their mortgages and feeding their kids. Business as usual.

Yes, but the relief of getting back to business has always obscured the basic problem with Canada's postal service. It's just kicking the can further down the street, waiting for te next strike, not solving the long-term problem of bringing pay to posties into line with the private sector, into line with public will. I'd love to see the day when people are paid what society deems fair (let capitalist forces work, with a few regulations to prevent excesses on either side), and stop them using government-awarded monopolies to stick it to taxpayers by raising costs hence taxes.

You say that Canada post is not going bankrupt. That may be because CP does not have to cover costs; it is funded from tax revenues. So it can run deficits for years, in a way no private corporation could survive. Are you saying that CP is a net profit centre now? If that's true, that's great news. Please let me know the source of this information, so I can study up and modify my opinion about CP.

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

Oh no, your point was quite clear, workers should have no right to try to get better conditions for themselves, they should be happy for the crumbs thrown to them. But hey, nice to know you really do support serfdom and slavery as long as its legal....

You are just silly and of course only see ONE side of the Union/Management interaction.

So even though NOBODY said workers should not have the right or ability to get better conditions and better wages it should not be done in vacuum. You are like every other blinded Union supporter I have ever come across. You act like we are in the middle ages and miners are still using Canaries. I hardly think making roughly 3X minimum wage would be considered having crumbs thrown at them, would you?

Unions only know how to take and ask for more. They never offer to give up even the slightest of gains unless the very company is on the brink of going under. Not accepting that their greed in demanding more and more even in tough times it often a large factor in putting the company in that position.

I have worked in a Union as stated previously and I never met a bigger collection of lazy out of touch with reality people in my life. I have also and currently do own businesses that employ people. When we have killer years I offer bigger than normal bonuses and pay a fair wage to the industry in which we operate. IF any of our staff tried to get a Union shop going I would simply close the business down and live off my savings for the balance of my years. Unions more often than not kill a business or industry once they get to a certain point, once they have pushed the wages for their workers beyond all logic compared to private companies and once they have "won" benefits that most private employers would not be able to afford for their workers, the Unions have put the first nail in the coffin of that company/business sector.

I have also found in my years that many (I would like to say most but not sure it's accurate) of the people I have met that are almost militant PRO Union are the ones that are in Unions (or their loved ones are) and they realize that for the most part they would NEVER get the job and benefits they do in a Non Union environment due to their lack of education or the job they are doing is a very low level of unskilled labor and as such there would be a huge glut of people willing to do their job's for them if open to the public.

You can come back with another of your snappy one liners that you think are making you look witty when in fact most people reading this can see you are doing it because you have no facts to back up beliefs with so you assume if you throw enough pixie dust around people will miss your lack of point.

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

Way to put words in my mouth. I didnt say I support it. I said it happens. And all those are illegal in the western world, so I dont know what your point is.

He's just sprinkling more pixie dust around in the hopes that nobody will notice his argument (or lack thereof) is indefensible.

 

[MandyUK]

wouldnt be so bad if they wernt paid nearly 50k a year, plus benifits, and they dont work saturdays!

 

[Jurjen]

Sorry, I was not aware that knowing a few people working within a profession made you qualify to remark on how easy or hard that job is, and to know what it is that the people working within these professions deserve to make.

In that case, having known a few surgeons, lawyers, and CEOs, I must say they are terribly overpaid.

I'd agree, if it weren't for the liability they're holding.

Responsibility and liability is something on paper and, consequently, between the ears. It doesn't say that you're a better human being or more competent in your profession in any way.

How can you say that? Striking is a fundamental human right.

haha, it is? When did that happen? Sounds like somebody is a Union supporter through and through.. why let a little reality get in the way.

Bangkokcanuck wasn't supporting slavery; how did you leap to that conclusion? He was merely questioning the unsupported statement that striking is a fundamental human right.

If you would've actually read the whole topic (or at least the page where I made the original statement), you would've seen that YorkFactory has already answered to that!

To quote the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, section 23(4):

Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Other than striking, how is a trade union to effectively protect its members' interests?

But if the claim was a simple attempt to give striking a bogus respectablity, then we need to know that too.

So what would that be? Keep listening to propagandist mass-media that keep brainwashing you saying that workers shouldn't have any right, all the rights should go to the CEOs?


@ Bangkokcanuck: is I said several times before: I think unions are a relic of the past and there's way too much corruption going on (until in the local politics). However, in this specific case, I finally found an union that I think was doing the right thing.

I am sure your wife is one of the good ones but you have to admit there are thousands that are not.. we have all seen them.

I didn't see them!? Stop with this ridiculous arguments, they make no sense. And with that: stop bashing the CUPW. All I can read between your lines is a big little kid crying out: "Mommy, they got more then me and I want more too!" Deal with it, unionize yourself or choose another job if you don't like your paycheck. Just remember that this website is full of people that would like to work for pretty muck any salary just to go through the waiting time, so you're a pretty spoiled brat as an immigrant!

In a Capitalist society, wages are determined and paid based on the value given to the job by that same society and what the market can bear. The society pays the most for what it wants the most. Think about some of the highest paid people in our society. They are actors, singers, models, and athletes. A university degree is not necessary for any of those jobs last I heard. Talent, athletic ability and good genetics go into their job descriptions.

Whooo! This is not entirely true. You're mistaking a very tiny select group with an entire trade. All the professional actors I know (on a personal level, which are quite a few), barely can make their living out of it. And if they can (usually by doing some easy money like lending their voices for radio commercials), they're not even building up a pension.

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

@ Bangkokcanuck: is I said several times before: I think unions are a relic of the past and there's way too much corruption going on (until in the local politics). However, in this specific case, I finally found an union that I think was doing the right thing.
I didn't see them!? Stop with this ridiculous arguments, they make no sense. And with that: stop bashing the CUPW. All I can read between your lines is a big little kid crying out: "Mommy, they got more then me and I want more too!" Deal with it, unionize yourself or choose another job if you don't like your paycheck. Just remember that this website is full of people that would like to work for pretty muck any salary just to go through the waiting time, so you're a pretty spoiled brat as an immigrant!

Are you sure you are directing this at me?? You might want to read a bit more or at least understand what you have read. First of all I am not bashing anyone nor any particular Union I am stating my personal (note that word) experience in dealing with Postal workers, both as family members and as a part time employee long ago. Along with my personal experience of being a member of Union for a number of years

If I made what a postal worker made I would slit my wrists, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Perhaps you could make that a little more clear so I have at least a little clue as to what you are talking about.

I worked for a Union (as stated) I left as it was the most soul sucking mind numbing experience of my life, a bunch of burned out self entitled acting buffoons... I don't have a job I own a number of businesses I like my "paycheck" just fine thanks.

I am not an Immigrant I am a born and bred Canadian citizen.. again what are you on about?

I suggest you take a step back from the computer, swallow the bile that has clearly risen in your throat start looking at things with a critical and honest eye and really take in and understand what other people post before you attack them with comments that have ZERO bearing on their personal circumstances...

Thanks..

 

[toby]

I think this debate has descended from an exchange of views about unions to name calling ad you-said I-said spats. Maybe it's time to move on to useful topics?

 

[Baloo]

I think this debate has descended from an exchange of views about unions to name calling ad you-said I-said spats. Maybe it's time to move on to useful topics?

Very good point Toby.

 

[Iamrobot85]

I concur

I think this debate has descended from an exchange of views about unions to name calling ad you-said I-said spats. Maybe it's time to move on to useful topics?

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

I think this debate has descended from an exchange of views about unions to name calling ad you-said I-said spats. Maybe it's time to move on to useful topics?

Indubitably

 

[sahibzada_2010]

Hi to all.
Did anyone mail got delivered today in Mississauga since all mail were stuck in the cargo because of locked out (including me). As far today was the second day of Canada post back to work. Mail delivery started today. I checked my tracking number and it does not change to delivered because of the high volume mails in postal facility.

I hope our stuck applications will move out tomorrow.

Thanks Canada post back to work.

 

[rjessome]

I think this debate has descended from an exchange of views about unions to name calling ad you-said I-said spats. Maybe it's time to move on to useful topics?

;D

Intelligent debate is fun. You can learn things, change your mind or just appreciate another's viewpoint while agreeing to disagree. There are definitely a few people on this forum who's opinions I'm always excited to see even though I know we probably won't share them. Even when diametrically opposed to another's standpoint, there's nothing better than a rational, well researched arguement that opposes my own. The challenge of doing better in the next round is a blast. But when the debate degrades to the point where it feels like teenage girls fighting over some silly, zit faced boy, it's not so much fun anymore. While passion is appreciated and often admirable, it can bubble over a bit too much.

Looking forward to the next hot topic. This fun part of this one is dead.

P.S. Hoping you all get what you were waiting for in the mail. It will probably take awhile for it all to get sorted out. The only thing in my mail box yesterday was bills!