Can a person without status in Canada submit an Outland application?

[Ponga]

Normally an American would never need to apply inland unless they are "out of status" inside Canada for fear that they may be denied back in Canada due to overstaying their allowed limits.

If they applied outland while being "out of status" in Canada, they can still be subject to deportation to US. With Canada and US now sharing exit / entrance controls between them, Canada could see that the person has been "out-of-status" in Canada the whole time once the person has to leave Canada to US and flagpole back to Canada to land. Would the premise that the person was "out of status" in Canada hurt or deny the American ability to land as PR?

Yes, but with the suspension of CBSA's Deferral of Removal program for Inland applicants, that layer of `protection' seems to be gone as well. That would mean that the chances of removal are, in essence, the same whether applying Inland or Outland, if the person os out of status.

I suppose the answer to your last question could in fact be yes, because until the person actually lands, anything (including a discovered overstay while flagpolling) could be seen as a reason for inadmissibility, but...that would truly be heartless on the part of the BO, IMHO.

 

[Ponga]

This has been the consensus for some time now.

I thought the consensus has been that there was no real reason, implying that the status issue would be the only reason, aside for simply not knowing that an Outland application was a viable option.

 

[screech339]

Yes, but with the suspension of CBSA's Deferral of Removal program for Inland applicants, that layer of `protection' seems to be gone as well. That would mean that the chances of removal are, in essence, the same whether applying Inland or Outland, if the person os out of status.

I suppose the answer to your last question could in fact be yes, because until the person actually lands, anything (including a discovered overstay while flagpolling) could be seen as a reason for inadmissibility, but...that would truly be heartless on the part of the BO, IMHO.

The suspension of removal order for "inland" applicants make sense. However the deportation order can still apply to "out of status" applicants when they apply "outland" from within Canada. They don't get the protection from deportation as inland does.

 

[Ponga]

The suspension of removal order for "inland" applicants make sense. However the deportation order can still apply to "out of status" applicants when they apply "outland" from within Canada. They don't get the protection from deportation as inland does.

I agree, but that suspension of removal program apparently* ended in November, 2011. That would seem to imply that now anyone out of status, regardless of an Inland or Outland application that has been submitted, are equally at risk of removal. This would now make an Inland application for an American, without status, TRULY a bad choice.

*source was from two separate immigration lawyers in Canada. Neither one knew what, if anything, is in place now.

 

[Alurra71]

I guess from my perspective, if anyone is in Canada without status, then you run the risk of being removed. It is usually quite simple to be granted an extension on whatever visa (visitor record) you hold with an active PR application.

 

[Ponga]

I guess from my perspective, if anyone is in Canada without status, then you run the risk of being removed. It is usually quite simple to be granted an extension on whatever visa (visitor record) you hold with an active PR application.

Agreed, but there are some that found themselves with their head in the sand, out of status beyond 90 days, with no chance of restoration when they apply for PR. Granted, it is certainly their own fault, but If those can benefit from the same processing times as others that submit an Outland application, it would appear to not increase their chances of removal automatically.

 

[Alurra71]

Agreed, but there are some that found themselves with their head in the sand, out of status beyond 90 days, with no chance of restoration when they apply for PR. Granted, it is certainly their own fault, but If those can benefit from the same processing times as others that submit an Outland application, it would appear to not increase their chances of removal automatically.

What I have never quite understood, is while you can't restore your status, why not just get a new status? I guess maybe it has something to do with having to do it from your own country or something, I dunno *shrugs* I live very close to the border with US (20 minute drive, in bad traffic). I still always kept my status 'current' just because I felt it was my duty to make sure that CBSA never had a cause to worry I wasn't adhering to the rules set down for me when I was given my visitor record initially. I didn't want a poison pen letter or anything else to give them a reason to look at me closer, ya know? LOL Not that I have anything to hide, mind you, just that I don't like close scrutiny for no reason, so I am transparent from the word go!

 

[Ponga]

I think the problem may be two-fold:

1. The embarrassment of being out of status, combined with the fear of taking the chance of getting a new status and/or leaving and trying to re-enter.

2. The misconception that an Inland application will keep CBSA at bay while the application is being processed...which no longer seems to be true.

 

[Rob_TO]

I agree, but that suspension of removal program apparently* ended in November, 2011. That would seem to imply that now anyone out of status, regardless of an Inland or Outland application that has been submitted, are equally at risk of removal. This would now make an Inland application for an American, without status, TRULY a bad choice.

*source was from two separate immigration lawyers in Canada. Neither one knew what, if anything, is in place now.

I'll state again... no matter what rules you see on paper, there is an underlying understanding with CBSA that they don't deport people with an inland app in progress, unless the situation is very extreme or unique. There is no such understanding with outland apps. This is most likely more an "unwritten" rule, but you still need to take it into account. So for a US citizen currently in Canada out-of-status, not confident they would be able to restore status, and desperate to stay here... an inland application would be preferable to an outland one.

What I have never quite understood, is while you can't restore your status, why not just get a new status?

I imagine in many cases it is because people don't want to bring attention to the fact they are out of status to CIC. If someone is out of status for whatever reason, applies for restoration of status and is denied... now CIC is fully aware of them and may make moves to deport them. However if the person just stays quiet and stays here out-of-status, odds are CIC will never even know.

 

[screech339]

In theory CSBA can now know which Americans are out of status since canada and us are now sharing the exit/entrance information between the two. Canada can now know which ones have over stayed if they haven't renewed or extended their status.

Prior to sharing the border info, canada had no exit control. Canada doesn't know when the Americans actually left canada. Now they can.

 

[Ponga]

I'll state again... no matter what rules you see on paper, there is an underlying understanding with CBSA that they don't deport people with an inland app in progress, unless the situation is very extreme or unique.

Would you be willing to share the source where you found this information? Even the Inland guide states that while legal status is no longer a requirement, persons without status can be removed from Canada at any time.

It would seem logical that as long as the applicant is staying out of trouble, there shouldn't be any removal concerns, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is an `unwritten rule' with CBSA.

 

[Rob_TO]

Would you be willing to share the source where you found this information? Even the Inland guide states that while legal status is no longer a requirement, persons without status can be removed from Canada at any time.

It would seem logical that as long as the applicant is staying out of trouble, there shouldn't be any removal concerns, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is an `unwritten rule' with CBSA.

There was a poster on here not too long ago that was out-of-status, that got a call from CBSA to schedule an appointment to see if they would be deported or not. The CBSA officers basically said that if you get an inland PR application in asap, they would stop the motions to deport.

Unless I see some actual cases of inland applicants being deported while their inland app is in progress, i'll tend to believe CBSA doesn't really go after them unless there are serious issues. Too bad you can't look up actual cases of deportations, and see what the situations were behind them.

 

[steerpike]

I dont see what the big deal is? its completey trivial for an american to keep their status. if they lose status is probably because they dont know the rules and make a mistake.

 

[Jhama]

Its completey trivial for an american to keep their status. if they lose status is probably because they dont know the rules and make a mistake.

Trivial. Maybe. Sometimes due to circumstances it doesn't work out that way.

And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself - Well...How did I get here?

 

[Ponga]

Trivial. Maybe. Sometimes due to circumstances it doesn't work out that way.

And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself - Well...How did I get here?

Classic!

+1 for the laugh!