Can a person without status in Canada submit an Outland application?

[chakrab]

I don't think this is entirely accurate. i applied outland, and i'm pretty sure there are places on the application where I am referred to as the "primary applicant".

That's because they use the same form for inland and outland. So the terms are same. But like I said if you check the checklist, they seem to use different terms. Even I didn't realise the forms are same before today.

Inland - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5443E.pdf
Outland - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5491E.pdf

 

[Ponga]

You dont need a visa to apply outland because you arent supposed to be in canada in the first place. Talking about valid visas on the outland app would likely just confuse a bunch of people.

As for your question why would anyone apply inland: because not everyone is an american, and inland is actually fasterr for a lot of people.

I am not sure if people who apply outland but remain in canada on a visa are technically qualified to appeal. The "reasoning" CIC uses to deny inland applicants the chance to appeal is based on the fact that they are not applying for status (they already have some kind of status) they are only applying for PR. Outland can appeal because they are applying for status and a PR. So outlands, who already have status , may not be able to appeal. It would be interesting to know.

My question was not why anyone would apply Inland. I fully understand how it is advantageous to those who would have a faster processing time Inland, but an American is not one of those.

From what is being said, there really is NO (none, nada, zilch) reason for an American, with or without status, in Canada to file an Inland application, right? If that's the case...why are there Americans on the Inland spreadsheets at all?

 

[truesmile]

I've seen several post here that they "didn't know" they were permitted to submit an 'outland' application from 'inside Canada'. Many here (including ourselves) didn't find this forum before we submitted our application. Personally, I'm glad we didn't, but anyway . . .

 

[keesio]

From what is being said, there really is NO (none, nada, zilch) reason for an American, with or without status, in Canada to file an Inland application, right? If that's the case...why are there Americans on the Inland spreadsheets at all?

Some Americans didn't know that you can stay in Canada for the duration of the outland processing, hence they applied inland.

Also, there is no guarantee that you can remain in Canada the whole time. For example, they can deny your visa extension request. As others mentioned, you can be denied or removed.

But for most Americans, outland is best and people who do inland usually just didn't know all the details at the time.

 

[Ponga]

Some Americans didn't know that you can stay in Canada for the duration of the outland processing, hence they applied inland.

Also, there is no guarantee that you can remain in Canada the whole time. For example, they can deny your visa extension request. As others mentioned, you can be denied or removed.

But for most Americans, outland is best and people who do inland usually just didn't know all the details at the time.

And that's the sad part. That a person with even average intelligence still needs a special CIC decoder ring to fully understand the process.

Even immigration lawyers, at least those that I spoke with, said that a person in Canada without status had to file an Inland application. No exceptions!

 

[Hasan9999]

Some Americans didn't know that you can stay in Canada for the duration of the outland processing, hence they applied inland.

Also, there is no guarantee that you can remain in Canada the whole time. For example, they can deny your visa extension request. As others mentioned, you can be denied or removed.

But for most Americans, outland is best and people who do inland usually just didn't know all the details at the time.

I also had two choices,inland or outland. I opted for outland application leaving Canada within legal time frame when my PR appeal dismissed. My lawyer strongly recommended outland application by immediately leaving Canada. I don't know why my lawyer never even proposed outland application while overstaying in Canada. May be because of possible deportation.

 

[chakrab]

Even immigration lawyers, at least those that I spoke with, said that a person in Canada without status had to file an Inland application. No exceptions!

is that because the sponsored person is looking for a way to stay in Canada and inland helps them in that cause? or because it's not legally possible to file outland?

 

[keesio]

And that's the sad part. That a person with even average intelligence still needs a special CIC decoder ring to fully understand the process.

Even immigration lawyers, at least those that I spoke with, said that a person in Canada without status had to file an Inland application. No exceptions!

yeah, even the terminology makes it sound like Outland means you are outside Canada while Inland being from inside.

actually I suspect that the original rule is that you are supposed to be outside Canada when applying outland but CIC relaxed that. We all know that there are a lot of rules that CIC tends to let it go.

 

[Ponga]

is that because the sponsored person is looking for a way to stay in Canada and inland helps them in that cause? or because it's not legally possible to file outland?

That's exactly my point in posing the question.

Again, the guide for the Outland application package makes absolutely no reference to a person not needing legal status to apply...but they do in the Inland guide. Why?

Inland-
Applying for permanent residence from within Canada: Spouse or common-law partner in Canada class (IMM 5289):

Maintaining legal status

Spouses and common‑law partners of Canadian citizens and permanent residents in Canada who wish to apply for permanent resident status are no longer required to have legal immigration status provided that they have an eligible sponsor. All other eligibility requirements continue to apply.

----
Outland-
Guide 3999 - Sponsorship of a spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child living outside Canada:
(this is part 2, immigration forms for the sponsored person)

No mention of sponsored person being allowed to apply if out of status and living in Canada.

 

[chakrab]

like some said, i guess CIC didn't realize or care as to why people will apply outland while staying in canada. so there's no need for a status check in canada. similarly they don't have a warning for people leaving canada for outland applications.

 

[steerpike]

actually I suspect that the original rule is that you are supposed to be outside Canada when applying outland but CIC relaxed that. We all know that there are a lot of rules that CIC tends to let it go.

By doing that they have created a injustice in the system, again directed at inland applicants (as all the inland vs outland injustices are). Inland applicants have to use a form that requires them to give up their right to appeal. Outland applicants dont have the same requirement, even if they are applying from within canada and already have status.

 

[Rob_TO]

That's exactly my point in posing the question.

Again, the guide for the Outland application package makes absolutely no reference to a person not needing legal status to apply...but they do in the Inland guide. Why?

Inland-
Applying for permanent residence from within Canada: Spouse or common-law partner in Canada class (IMM 5289):

Maintaining legal status

Spouses and common‑law partners of Canadian citizens and permanent residents in Canada who wish to apply for permanent resident status are no longer required to have legal immigration status provided that they have an eligible sponsor. All other eligibility requirements continue to apply.

----
Outland-
Guide 3999 - Sponsorship of a spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child living outside Canada:
(this is part 2, immigration forms for the sponsored person)

No mention of sponsored person being allowed to apply if out of status and living in Canada.

Because at one point in time, legal status in Canada was a requirement to apply inland. At some point the specifically removed that clause, so they put in the wording to explain the change.

For outland is has NEVER been a requirement to have legal status anywhere to apply, so there is no point in even mentioning it. Nothing has changed. In general CIC only tells you what you need to apply... not what you don't need.

 

[Ponga]

Well you must admit that it is confusing as hell for most people.

So, to clarify:
An American can be living in Canada and have been out of status for more than 90 days (thereby unable to restore their status)...apply with an Outland application and have their PR in the same time, more less, as an American that is `visiting' in Canada and chooses to pay to keep their legal status...as long as they stay under CBSA's radar, which would appear to be the same chance as those with an Inland application now?

I guess there's no need for an American, from this day forward, to even consider an Inland application.

 

[screech339]

Well you must admit that it is confusing as hell for most people.

So, to clarify:
An American can be living in Canada and have been out of status for more than 90 days (thereby unable to restore their status)...apply with an Outland application and have their PR in the same time, more less, as an American that is `visiting' in Canada and chooses to pay to keep their legal status...as long as they stay under CBSA's radar, which would appear to be the same chance as those with an Inland application now?

I guess there's no need for an American, from this day forward, to even consider an Inland application.

Normally an American would never need to apply inland unless they are "out of status" inside Canada for fear that they may be denied back in Canada due to overstaying their allowed limits.

If they applied outland while being "out of status" in Canada, they can still be subject to deportation to US. With Canada and US now sharing exit / entrance controls between them, Canada could see that the person has been "out-of-status" in Canada the whole time once the person has to leave Canada to US and flagpole back to Canada to land. Would the premise that the person was "out of status" in Canada hurt or deny the American ability to land as PR?

 

[keesio]

I guess there's no need for an American, from this day forward, to even consider an Inland application.

This has been the consensus for some time now.