Can a person without status in Canada submit an Outland application?

[Ponga]

There was a poster on here not too long ago that was out-of-status, that got a call from CBSA to schedule an appointment to see if they would be deported or not. The CBSA officers basically said that if you get an inland PR application in asap, they would stop the motions to deport.

Unless I see some actual cases of inland applicants being deported while their inland app is in progress, i'll tend to believe CBSA doesn't really go after them unless there are serious issues. Too bad you can't look up actual cases of deportations, and see what the situations were behind them.

I tend to agree and suspect that most that are removed have something more than just an overstay.

I did find that for an Inland applicant, CBSA will ask CIC to expedite the processing for AIP within 60 days, which seems to be almost as good as the former Administrative Deferral of Removal policy...perhaps even better. This could make the Inland wait just a bit shorter for that person. It didn't say what happens if AIP isn't determined within those 60 days however.

 

[screech339]

I suppose the answer to your last question could in fact be yes, because until the person actually lands, anything (including a discovered overstay while flagpolling) could be seen as a reason for inadmissibility, but...that would truly be heartless on the part of the BO, IMHO.

Why would you think it would be heartless on the part of BO to deny PR status due to a discovered overstay while flag polling when the applicant pretty much misrepresented him/herself by not stating that he/she is overstaying in Canada in the application. I would suspect almost no one will want to admit in the outland application that they are currently "out in status" living in Canada when they apply. After all, overstaying your visa is illegal.

 

[zardoz]

I tend to agree and suspect that most that are removed have something more than just an overstay.

I did find that for an Inland applicant, CBSA will ask CIC to expedite the processing for AIP within 60 days, which seems to be almost as good as the former Administrative Deferral of Removal policy...perhaps even better. This could make the Inland wait just a bit shorter for that person. It didn't say what happens if AIP isn't determined within those 60 days however.

I though that it stated that if AIP wasn't determined within 60 days, the removal is actioned... (sure I read that somewhere in the vastness of the CIC web site).

 

[Ponga]

Why would you think it would be heartless on the part of BO to deny PR status due to a discovered overstay while flag polling when the applicant pretty much misrepresented him/herself by not stating that he/she is overstaying in Canada in the application. I would suspect almost no one will want to admit in the outland application that they are currently "out in status" living in Canada when they apply. After all, overstaying your visa is illegal.

What makes you think that in the scenario that I used, the applicant would have in any way misrepresented himself/herself?

I never said, or even implied that the applicant would have lied on their application about their time in Canada. Well all know that the applicant has to truthfully disclose on either application (Inland or Outland) where they've been for the last 10 years!!

You cannot avoid declaring your status on either application.

 

[screech339]

What makes you think that in the scenario that I used, the applicant would have in any way misrepresented himself/herself?

I never said, or even implied that the applicant would have lied on their application about their time in Canada. Well all know that the applicant has to truthfully disclose on either application (Inland or Outland) where they've been for the last 10 years!!

You cannot avoid declaring your status on either application.

You have a point there about declaring where you have been for last 10 years. But an American could get away with it since it only has been in the last couple of years that Canada and US been sharing border info of americans/Canadians crossing the borders. Before then, Canada has no exit controls so really doesn't know when the American actually left Canada and vise versa with US.

So American applicants could say on the application that they stayed for 6 months when they actually stayed longer. The only timeline that would be affected is in the last 2 years or so when Canada can now determine when Americans actually left.

A lot of countries have exit controls. You would see a stamp on your passport showing date of exiting the country. Canada doesn't have this control and still doesn't.

 

[chakrab]

You have a point there about declaring where you have been for last 10 years. But an American could get away with it since it only has been in the last couple of years that Canada and US been sharing border info of americans/Canadians crossing the borders. Before then, Canada has no exit controls so really doesn't know when the American actually left Canada and vise versa with US.

So American applicants could say on the application that they stayed for 6 months when they actually stayed longer. The only timeline that would be affected is in the last 2 years or so when Canada can now determine when Americans actually left.

A lot of countries have exit controls. You would see a stamp on your passport showing date of exiting the country. Canada doesn't have this control and still doesn't.

even if canada adopts a exit control strategy, they won't be stamping passports for all cases. i don't even carry my passport when i visit the states.

 

[Ponga]

You have a point there about declaring where you have been for last 10 years. But an American could get away with it since it only has been in the last couple of years that Canada and US been sharing border info of americans/Canadians crossing the borders. Before then, Canada has no exit controls so really doesn't know when the American actually left Canada and vise versa with US.

So American applicants could say on the application that they stayed for 6 months when they actually stayed longer. The only timeline that would be affected is in the last 2 years or so when Canada can now determine when Americans actually left.

A lot of countries have exit controls. You would see a stamp on your passport showing date of exiting the country. Canada doesn't have this control and still doesn't.

The point is that an out of status person has to be truthful when completing the application. In doing so, CIC will know that the person has been in Canada without status, but won't seem to care (much). However, since it's unknown whether or not CIC reports every person to CBSA, once they discover the overstay, CBSA may not even know until that person flagpoles to land. It's only if the BO discovers the overstay during questioning when they present themselves to land, that I was curious about.
So, if the applicant was in fact truthful with CIC, there is no misrepresentation, correct?


Regarding Canada/US exit tracking:

AFAIK, phase I and II of the `Beyond the Border' program was ONLY tracking the exit of third-country nationals, NOT American or Canadian citizens, or PR holders. Phase III was to begin capturing that data, and phase III only started this month (I believe).

 

[screech339]

Regarding Canada/US exit tracking:

AFAIK, phase I and II of the `Beyond the Border' program was ONLY tracking the exit of third-country nationals, NOT American or Canadian citizens, or PR holders. Phase III was to begin capturing that data, and phase III only started this month (I believe).

You're probably right regarding the tracking of Canadian/Americans coming into effect around this time. One of many reasons for Phase III is to start tracking Canadian/Americans/PRs who are abusing the unemployment benefits. I am sure that some (minority) are receiving EI benefits are living in US or even working and visa versa when they are not suppose to collect any EI benefits while living outside the country.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Regarding Canada/US exit tracking:

AFAIK, phase I and II of the `Beyond the Border' program was ONLY tracking the exit of third-country nationals, NOT American or Canadian citizens, or PR holders. Phase III was to begin capturing that data, and phase III only started this month (I believe).

i'm pretty sure some borders started at the beginning of the year. unless, the bo i talked to was lying, they were able to know back in march the last time i had left canada.

 

[screech339]

even if canada adopts a exit control strategy, they won't be stamping passports for all cases. i don't even carry my passport when i visit the states.

How may I ask you are able to enter US without a passport? Unless you are referring to a period of time before Jan 2007 when US/Canada Passport was not required between land crossings. Since then everyone, including canadian and americans must use passports to enter US with the exceptions for those under 16 years olds. They can use birth certificates (canadian or American only) by land crossings only.

 

[Ponga]

How may I ask you are able to enter US without a passport? Unless you are referring to a period of time before Jan 2007 when US/Canada Passport was not required between land crossings. Since then everyone, including canadian and americans must use passports to enter US with the exceptions for those under 16 years olds. They can use birth certificates by land crossings only.

I don't think that's correct, as I have had friends [recently, within the last year] cross into BC by land with only their US Driver License.

But...perhaps it's yet another inconsistency. LOL!

 

[Alurra71]

I don't think that's correct, as I have had friends [recently, within the last year] cross into BC by land with only their US Driver License.

But...perhaps it's yet another inconsistency. LOL!

If you have an enhanced DL from your state, it is sufficient to cross back and forth with. That is the difference of just a DL or a passport/passport card.

 

[screech339]

If you have an enhanced DL from your state, it is sufficient to cross back and forth with. That is the difference of just a DL or a passport/passport card.

I forgot about the enhanced driver licence as being one of the accepted ID to cross, along with trusted travelers program card like nexus.

 

[Alurra71]

I forgot about the enhanced driver licence as being one of the accepted ID to cross, along with trusted travelers program card like nexus.

Yes, but even to get the Nexus, you have to have a passport or passport card. Other forms of ID aren't accepted and when you cross with Nexus you must still have your passport available if they ask for it. Rare, but sometimes, they throw it out there to catch you off guard lol

 

[keesio]

Yes, but even to get the Nexus, you have to have a passport or passport card. Other forms of ID aren't accepted and when you cross with Nexus you must still have your passport available if they ask for it. Rare, but sometimes, they throw it out there to catch you off guard lol

NEXUS documentation explicitly states that a passport is not needed to cross the US-CDN land border. Just the card will suffice.

It does say that you need a passport if traveling by air however.