BREAKING NEWS Bill C-6 finally passed in HoC, Now reading in Senate

[admontreal]

So do you feel that it is equally irresponsible or illegitimate for citizens to contact their MP's? What exactly is the difference between a MP listening to their constituents and a Senator (who has no official constituents) asking for public input? Do you think democracy would be better served is Senators did whatever they wanted (or even worse, what their party demanded) without even trying to gauge where public opinion was? I don't.

That's because, again, the two chambers have different functions and inputs. The main input of an MP is the will of his constituents, while the main input of the other democratic bodies is the Rule of Law, the common sense and the Humans Rights, for example. It's not always about the 'Voice of the People'. If it was, we would still have the capital punishment, abortion would still be a crime and we would have no Free Trade Agreement whatsoever.
Also, sometimes the public opinion is so divided that the decision needs to take other factors into consideration, for the public good.
So if a Senator relies on the public opinion only to make his/her arguments, then very likely a mistake was made when he/she was appointed, and I really wonder (or not really) why it's always people who were appointed between 2006 and 2015 that follow that pattern ...

 

[zineb83]

daisy2; YES that the unfair part we waited 4 yrs and now the processing time will go bck to 12-18-24 months that why i hate both bill C 24 - C 6

 

[torontosm]

That's because, again, the two chambers have different functions and inputs. The main input of an MP is the will of his constituents, while the main input of the other democratic bodies is the Rule of Law, the common sense and the Humans Rights, for example. It's not always about the 'Voice of the People'. If it was, we would still have the capital punishment, abortion would still be a crime and we would have no Free Trade Agreement whatsoever.
Also, sometimes the public opinion is so divided that the decision needs to take other factors into consideration, for the public good.
So if a Senator relies on the public opinion only to make his/her arguments, then very likely a mistake was made when he/she was appointed, and I really wonder (or not really) why it's always people who were appointed between 2006 and 2015 that follow that pattern ...

OK, so according to you, Senators should act and vote according to their own personal beliefs. But then, a day before you posted this, someone wrote:

"Senate shouldn't make decisions against the House of Commons ones."

Again, it seems like the poor Senators just can't win!

 

[torontosm]

daisy2; YES that the unfair part we waited 4 yrs and now the processing time will go bck to 12-18-24 months that why i hate both bill C 24 - C 6

Relax...no one knows what will happen to processing times, and anyone who claims to today is only speculating.

 

[admontreal]

OK, so according to you, Senators should act and vote according to their own personal beliefs. But then, a day before you posted this, someone wrote:

"Senate shouldn't make decisions against the House of Commons ones."

Again, it seems like the poor Senators just can't win!

I never said that Senators should BLOCK legislations according to their own beliefs. I said that they should strongly ADVISE (through VOTING proposed amendments, intelligent debates, sober second thought and relevant questionning) the House of Commons (the ultimate decision maker, who was elected as you like) to make the right decision, in a non-partisan, objective and systemic manner.
Please look at the key words here before drawing hative conclusions.
Ultimately I don't think the Senators will block the C-6 Bill or any other Bill. They know their place and function. They made arguments (really good ones from some, really lame ones from others), they will recommend amendments and it will be up to the House of Commons to decide which ones to keep based on that 'sober second thought'. That's what happened with the Assisted-dying bill and I think it was a success.
In my opinion, it should become an offense to threaten to use Partisan Line in the Senate to block a legislation. It's a fair use case of Power interference (like a PM sending a letter to a Supreme court judge).

 

[Natan]

So do you feel that it is equally irresponsible or illegitimate for citizens to contact their MP's? What exactly is the difference between a MP listening to their constituents and a Senator (who has no official constituents) asking for public input? Do you think democracy would be better served is Senators did whatever they wanted (or even worse, what their party demanded) without even trying to gauge where public opinion was? I don't.

The Senators tweet was a self-serving bit of grandstanding. Let's not pretend it was something so grandiose as a genuine call for public input -- it was nothing of the sort. Attending town hall meetings, responding to a deluge of letters/email from the public, or using reputable polls may be considered consulting public opinion.

The only purpose of tweeting a question (that is formed in such a way as to solicit the anticipated answer) is to publicize the already formed opinion of the Senator.

 

[torontosm]

The Senators tweet was a self-serving bit of grandstanding. Let's not pretend it was something so grandiose as a genuine call for public input -- it was nothing of the sort. Attending town hall meetings, responding to a deluge of letters/email from the public, or using reputable polls may be considered consulting public opinion.

The only purpose of tweeting a question (that is formed in such a way as to solicit the anticipated answer) is to publicize the already formed opinion of the Senator.

I guess your mind-reading skills are better than mine becuase I wasn't able to deduce any of that from a single innocent tweet.

 

[hangincanada]

I never said that Senators should BLOCK legislations according to their own beliefs. I said that they should strongly ADVISE (through VOTING proposed amendments, intelligent debates, sober second thought and relevant questionning) the House of Commons (the ultimate decision maker, who was elected as you like) to make the right decision, in a non-partisan, objective and systemic manner.
Please look at the key words here before drawing hative conclusions.
Ultimately I don't think the Senators will block the C-6 Bill or any other Bill. They know their place and function. They made arguments (really good ones from some, really lame ones from others), they will recommend amendments and it will be up to the House of Commons to decide which ones to keep based on that 'sober second thought'. That's what happened with the Assisted-dying bill and I think it was a success.
In my opinion, it should become an offense to threaten to use Partisan Line in the Senate to block a legislation. It's a fair use case of Power interference (like a PM sending a letter to a Supreme court judge).

very convincing! I think if the senator meant to ask for public opinions, she should read your comments.

 

[noba el king]

Is there any session today in senate?

 

[admontreal]

very convincing! I think if the senator meant to ask for public opinions, she should read your comments.

If she knows how to read ...

 

[Natan]

I guess your mind-reading skills are better than mine becuase I wasn't able to deduce any of that from a single innocent tweet.

The Senator tweeted: "Cdn Senate currently debating Bill C6 which will restore citizenship to convicted terrorists such as ringleader of Toronto 18. Good policy?"

That is not a neutral question. It is a biased, leading question, that leaves no doubt that said senator's opinion is in the negative. Never mind that Twitter is hardly the proper venue for a Canadian Senator to gauge public opinion on this topic. The intention of this tweet is to garner free publicity. It is only innocent of being interested in public input.

 

[spiritsoul]

The Senator tweeted: "Cdn Senate currently debating Bill C6 which will restore citizenship to convicted terrorists such as ringleader of Toronto 18. Good policy?"

That is not a neutral question. It is a biased, leading question, that leaves no doubt that said senator's opinion is in the negative. Never mind that Twitter is hardly the proper venue for a Canadian Senator to gauge public opinion on this topic. The intention of this tweet is to garner free publicity. It is only innocent of being interested in public input.

This was Linda Frum...

To me, what a misleading question!! You Senators have the choice of turning down this clause; the bill include other great clauses

 

[tyl92]

does anyone know if they are going to break this session by december 23rd ?
If it's true , bill c-6 will have to be approved by then .

 

[admontreal]

This was Linda Frum...

To me, what a misleading question!! You Senators have the choice of turning down this clause; the bill include other great clauses

You may disagree, but this clause was the main reason (and most symbolic one) why the Bill was brought forward (Trudeau kept on visiting multicultural forums saying that a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian).Thus, Senators don't have the choice to turn it down, they can advise against (or complain against like the Conservative ones) but the essence of the Bill is the Equality between citizens, not waiving a few days of waiting time for PRs who have most of the rights of a citizen.

 

[spiritsoul]

You may disagree, but this clause was the main reason (and most symbolic one) why the Bill was brought forward (Trudeau kept on visiting multicultural forums saying that a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian).Thus, Senators don't have the choice to turn it down, they can advise against (or complain against like the Conservative ones) but the essence of the Bill is the Equality between citizens, not waiving a few days of waiting time for PRs who have most of the rights of a citizen.

I totally agree, however, Senators like Frum have the option to vote against the clause rather than downgrading the context of the bill to ONLY this clause. Of course they won't win now (I believe) following the appointment of the new Senators.