Family Sponsorship (PGP) - E-petition to the House of Commons - 2023

[LolaPM]

Hi everyone!

We've collected 566 signatures for the petition, thank you all so much for your support! You can still sign it, the more signatures the better!

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-4385

 

[ibrahim0175]

I'll go on record as endorsing all that has been written by @canuck78 and @Copingwithlife, supra. In particular, the above post of the latter poster is such a storehouse of merit than any attempt to condense or paraphrase would not do it justice.

LolaPM, you said you came to Canada and now you are thinking thus:



Why is it that you "deserve" what you claim? How about many ordinary Canadians, born here, worked here all their lives, paid taxes, contributed to the economy, what do they "deserve" that's in any way equivalent to what you deserve? You say you deserve to have elderly parents and grandparents come join you and receive healthcare and other government benefits. Well, if you deserve that fairly costly added benefit, what goes to those who don't ask for their elderly parents and grandparents to be allowed entry to Canada to start receiving healthcare? I suppose they deserve to see the system more burdened than it is now. Is that correct?

You mentioned elsewhere that employers should be compelled to add parents to any medical benefit plan. I am sure employers and your co-workers won't mind paying increased premiums, because you "deserve" to let them pay more. And, if parents, what about grandparents? What are they? Sub-humans?

You also refer to deserving to bring "loved ones" here. Why stop at parents and grandparents? Surely all "loved ones" count? Aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. I suppose your idea is one of baby steps. Lobby to get what you want with parents and grandparents and, if that succeeds, then build from there.

As for many parents, etc. having no one to care from them at home, that describes the lot of many born here. Many people have no children and, in any event, having children is certainly no guarantee to having a caregiver in one's old age.

Finally, let me ask you, is Canada so out of step with the rest of the world? Do most countries (or even any) permit in this regard what Canada does not? I strongly suspect the answer is no. Canada is already uncommonly generous with its visa programs for parents and grandparents. How about your country of origin? Is it more accommodating in this regard? Based on your username, I have a guess as to your country, and, if I am right, I already know the answer.

In the end, as aptly pointed out by @Copingwithlife, you chose to come here, eyes wide open, knowing the rules. Not much more needs to be said on that score.

@Kaibigan would you give the same lecture if it was your parents?

 

[Kaibigan]

@Kaibigan would you give the same lecture if it was your parents?

Absolutely I would. I would not go to live in another country, knowing the rules, and the very sound reasons for them, then expect them to change once I arrived. Others here have pointed out, in extenso, how it is that what you propose would almost surely place an undue burden on already burdened taxpayers. And not everyone here pays much in taxes to begin with. Your trite response to those here who have referred to the nature of the burdens to be borne by taxpayers (show me the evidence) is fatuous and hardly worth addressing.

My parents came to Canada from Norway, years ago, when Norway was a poor country, long before north sea oil. They came for economic betterment, which they achieved, but it took time, while they could not afford to travel. The net result was that my father never saw his parents again and my mother saw only her mother. They knew when they departed for Canada that would likely happen. They accepted it and came here.

Let me ask you the same question I put to LolaPM (and so studiously avoided by her): Is Canada out of step with the rest of the world in this regard? Can you name one that has adopted the approach she is asking to have adopted by Canada? How about your country of origin?

 

[andrew3081]

Canadians also see their grandparents too but a visit of for example 6 months versus 5 years is significantly different. Nobody is saying that seeing a grandparent is a negative thing but whether grandparents can move to Canada is very different. Immigration is not for everyone. Most countries with medicare do not allow parent and grandparent sponsorship with access to public healthcare or visits for 5-7 years. Canada didn’t allow parent sponsorship for a long time or quotas were very small numbers. Canada doesn’t have a surplus of healthcare resources. Very tough to say to millions who are working and paying taxes or who have worked for decades and paid taxes (many who are immigrants) that they have the same access to healthcare as someone who arrived in Canada in their 60s-80s. Millions are without GPs and waiting months to years for appointments and surgeries so adding more seniors to the situation only makes it worse not better. Ask anyone who works in healthcare if they think the system can absorb more people in general but more seniors especially and they will hopefully give you an honest answer and it is petrifying.

Well said, as an immigrant who lived in Canada my whole life, and after using our healthcare system, it sucks and I can’t imagine the system take on more elderly immigrants without causing huge problem for Canadians already living in Canada.

 

[canuck78]

Well said, as an immigrant who lived in Canada my whole life, and after using our healthcare system, it sucks and I can’t imagine the system take on more elderly immigrants without causing huge problem for Canadians already living in Canada.

It is already crazy that we allow PGP, supervisa for 5-7 years and likely an ever increasing amount via H&C given the 5-7 years seniors will be able to visit Canada creating ties given the current state of the HC system.

 

[armoured]

It is already crazy that we allow PGP, supervisa for 5-7 years and likely an ever increasing amount via H&C given the 5-7 years seniors will be able to visit Canada creating ties given the current state of the HC system.

Certainly doesn't help the housing situation, either.

 

[YVR123]

It is already crazy that we allow PGP, supervisa for 5-7 years and likely an ever increasing amount via H&C given the 5-7 years seniors will be able to visit Canada creating ties given the current state of the HC system.

I agree on the increasing cases of H&C by the end of their 5 - 7 years stay.

 

[CEC_1304]

As long as they meet LICO, they would not be denied. Lots of people work in Canada for a number of years before becoming a PR. It's totally feasible to enter the lottery right after becoming a PR, be selected, and be approved.

What about if they fail in medical ? After LICO , Medical pass is big challenge for aging parents.

 

[CEC_1304]

I agree on the increasing cases of H&C by the end of their 5 - 7 years stay.

I think kids want parents PR because of HC reason , as in super visa this is not free (NO Health care for Super visa)
So mostly people want parents PR done so that expense can be taken care by health card

 

[canuck78]

What about if they fail in medical ? After LICO , Medical pass is big challenge for aging parents.

Yes certainly a risk but I have seen lawyers get pretty creative and get approved. Kidney failure is the biggest issue to overcome. Others will just remain without status and keep on applying until they get approved and use the healthcare system while either paying or on a payment plan but as a senior foreign national most will not get reimbursed.

 

[scylla]

What about if they fail in medical ? After LICO , Medical pass is big challenge for aging parents.

The question I was answering related specifically to LICO.

There are many reasons why someone can be refused, not just medical.

 

[canuck78]

I agree on the increasing cases of H&C by the end of their 5 - 7 years stay.

Actually think many are applying earlier than that. Sure there was a rush of application for H&C after the PGP2023 was announced. Given that people aren’t forced to leave even they get denied many don’t worry and just keep applying until they get approved. The end goals is to limit the amount of seniors to certain amount so H&C numbers should likely be part of the quota consideration.

 

[Copingwithlife]

@Kaibigan would you give the same lecture if it was your parents?

News flash . Not everyone in this world are attached to their parents on their hips .
It’s like , you move on with your life . Like moving to a new country . It’s part of life . I remember a case on Canli that was about someone that took the Government to court to bring their parents here under H&C. It was denied . In a nutshell the decision was that the applicant DECIDED , repeat DECIDED to move to Canada, and they shouldn’t expect to bring their parents . If they wanted to be with their parents , they can move back to where their parents are . It’s not complicated. That’s what airplanes are for .
As for the Super Visa fiasco , amongst other things , the Liberals, have seriously done a number on this country.
BTW the PGP is a program . It’s not legislation. Majority of Canadians are against it .
On the bright side , the latest Canada338 projections is that the LPC will be thrown out of power in the next election . Now that’s SOMETHING to smile about

https://338canada.com/#fed

 

[canuck78]

News flash . Not everyone in this world are attached to their parents on their hips .
It’s like , you move on with your life . Like moving to a new country . It’s part of life . I remember a case on Canli that was about someone that took the Government to court to bring their parents here under H&C. It was denied . In a nutshell the decision was that the applicant DECIDED , repeat DECIDED to move to Canada, and they shouldn’t expect to bring their parents . If they wanted to be with their parents , they can move back to where their parents are . It’s not complicated. That’s what airplanes are for .
As for the Super Visa fiasco , amongst other things , the Liberals, have seriously done a number on this country.
BTW the PGP is a program . It’s not legislation. Majority of Canadians are against it .
On the bright side , the latest Canada338 projections is that the LPC will be thrown out of power in the next election . Now that’s SOMETHING to smile about

https://338canada.com/#fed

No party is going to get rid of PGP without significant pressure from existing people in Canada not being able to access healthcare. It is the top 5 voting issue in many ridings. Many of the ridings that have large immigrant populations are trying to be secured by all parties. If anything the parties push each other to increase the quota or time being able to spend in Canada. In the media the PGP program is described as children being financially responsible for their children. People see to assume that means that children pay for their parent’s healthcare and don’t receive any other form of government payment. In reality it is just no access to welfare for 10-20years.

 

[CEC_1304]

Yes certainly a risk but I have seen lawyers get pretty creative and get approved. Kidney failure is the biggest issue to overcome. Others will just remain without status and keep on applying until they get approved and use the healthcare system while either paying or on a payment plan but as a senior foreign national most will not get reimbursed.

Rightly said CKD are main reason for medical fail.
Medical is very costly in Canada, if need to pay from pocket