Working in another country & registered marriage

[alltron]

Background info
* I am an Indian citizen working in Singapore for the past 1 year
* My girlfriend is an Indian citizen with Canadian PR living and working in CA for the past 2 years.
* We have been in a relationship for 7 years and have all the possible proof of the same right from college days (pictures, emails, messages, logs(phone calls everyday for the past 7 years!!) etc.)
* We will be getting engaged in December in India but married(traditional catholic marriage) only next year (december 2014).

Questions
1) While we wait for our traditional marriage next year end, can we get a registered marriage done and submit our application based on that?
2) Should we do the registered marriage in Singapore when she's here on a visit(she will be visiting in december) or in India (does it matter)?
2) Do I submit my application to Delhi(India) or Singapore? I hear it will be quite a hassle for me to send docs to delhi and go back and forth with them? On the other hand, the SG processing time is showing 25 month!! as opposed to Delhi's 7 months.
3) Do the witnesses to the registered mariage matter? If we do it in Singapore, we will have casual friends from SG as witnesses to the registered marriage.


Please please help with whatever information you can in this regard. We've finally made our decision to settle in Canada. We've been away from each other for nearly 2 years now and it's killing.

Thanks

 

[canadianwoman]

Background info
Questions
1) While we wait for our traditional marriage next year end, can we get a registered marriage done and submit our application based on that?

Yes. But make the registered marriage look as romantic and genuine as you can. Get dressed up, get nice rings, maybe flowers, definitely go for some kind of wedding dinner or party afterwards, and definitely go on a honeymoon. These things will make your application look better. The visa officers in India ordinarily expect Indian citizens to have the kind of big, traditional weddings common in India, with as much family present as possible. To deviate from this and get a visa is of course possible, but explain what you are doing and why. You are not Hindu, so they won't expect a traditional Indian wedding; you do not have an arranged marriage, so some aspects of what they would usually expect to see won't be there. Just make sure you explain in the application that the marriage wasn't arranged. You can explain that you want to have a big, traditional Catholic ceremony later, but do not say you did the registered marriage just to expedite immigration to Canada. Talk about other reasons: maybe you want to delay the big formal wedding until family can be there, or until you have saved up enough money, whatever.

2) Should we do the registered marriage in Singapore when she's here on a visit(she will be visiting in december) or in India (does it matter)?

Either would be OK. I would do it wherever you can get the most family and friends involved.

2) Do I submit my application to Delhi(India) or Singapore? I hear it will be quite a hassle for me to send docs to delhi and go back and forth with them? On the other hand, the SG processing time is showing 25 month!! as opposed to Delhi's 7 months.

I would go through Delhi because it is a lot faster. If there is an interview, you will have to go to Delhi. As well, Indian passports are not supposed to be mailed across borders, and New Delhi asks for the passport very early in processing.

3) Do the witnesses to the registered mariage matter? If we do it in Singapore, we will have casual friends from SG as witnesses to the registered marriage.

Friends are OK, but again, the expectation in the New Delhi office is a big traditional wedding with a lot of family present. So if youjust have friends, it might be fine, but explain why relatives couldn't be there - and state they will be there for the big celebration later.

 

[alltron]

Thanks 'canadianwoman'.

We will be having a nice function for the engagement so i guess that should cover the pictures with family/relatives etc part.

I'm still confused on as to where to apply - at Delhi or Singapore? Can't send the passport to Delhi maybe like u said - cause I work in Singapore. Traveling to Delhi for 1 interview shouldn't be a problem.

Also, if and when I get the PR - how soon do i need to be in Canada? How long do I need to stay there? I'm talking from a perspective of like completing another year of work in singapore before I actually move there permanently..

 

[canadianwoman]

We will be having a nice function for the engagement so i guess that should cover the pictures with family/relatives etc part.

Good. This is one of the things they ask in the application. It is not necessary to have an engagement party, but if you do have one with lots of family present, it does look better.

I'm still confused on as to where to apply - at Delhi or Singapore? Can't send the passport to Delhi maybe like u said - cause I work in Singapore. Traveling to Delhi for 1 interview shouldn't be a problem.

The problem may be that they ask for the passport, you send it (through friends or relatives, maybe), and then they want you to come for an interview. You'd need someone to get the passport and get it back to you. If you send enough good proof your relationship is genuine, you might not get called for an interview, of course, but it is a possibility. Maybe get the advice of other Indian citizens who have applied while living abroad. I know it has been an issue on here a few times. If you go through Singapore, the average wait times are long, but again, if you submit a very good application with a lot of evidence, you may get approved more quickly than usual, and may not need an interview.

Also, if and when I get the PR - how soon do i need to be in Canada? How long do I need to stay there? I'm talking from a perspective of like completing another year of work in singapore before I actually move there permanently..

Usually the PR visa will expire when your medicals expire: a year after they were done. They can sometimes be extended, or you can submit new medicals if the processing time is over a year. You can then land in Canada. They will send you your PR card after that, to some address in Canada. You can leave Canada right after landing - you would just then need to have the card sent to someone you know in Canada, who can then forward it to you. You could return to Singapore and work or tie up loose ends. You have to stay in Canada for two years out of every five to keep your PR status, so working for a year in Singapore after landing would be OK.

 

[alltron]

We had a really nice ceremony in India and a registered marriage done. We also had a nice trip to another country the two of us. The next step is to apply off course. Maybe, via Delhi as you('Canadian Woman') suggested.

 

[amira_mais]

We had a really nice ceremony in India and a registered marriage done. We also had a nice trip to another country the two of us. The next step is to apply off course. Maybe, via Delhi as you('Canadian Woman') suggested.

Hi, just keep in mind one other thing canadianwoman mentioned - if you apply through Delhi, they'll ask for your passport at the beginning of stage 2 and they'll keep it for a number of months until they're ready to issue the visa. Plus you'll have to find someone to take your passport to India and mail it to Delhi from within Indian borders as it's illegal to mail an Indian passport across international borders. Getting the passport back after visa issuance entails giving Delhi an Indian address to mail it to, and then someone will have to deliver it back to you. To complicate things further, if Delhi asks for your passport, you send it over, and they THEN call you to an interview, you'll have to go through the process of retrieving the passport to travel over for the appt.

While applying through Singapore entails a much longer processing time, the advantage is that you won't have to worry about sending your passport out of the country.

And as if that's not enough to wrestle with, keep in mind that even if you select Singapore as your preferred visa office at which to have your application processed, CIC retains the discretion to send it to Delhi anyway as that's your country of citizenship. So if you do choose Singapore, include a note explaining your choice (i.e. highlight the difficulty you as an overseas worker would face in regard to the passport thing and Delhi).

Best of luck and congratulations on your recent marriage!

 

[alltron]

Bumping this thread to see if anyone else has experienced this before i.e. living/working in another country than your country of citizenship and applying for Canadian Immigration via the visa office in your country of citizenship.. in which case you would need to send your passport across countries.

Anyone? Any ideal way to go about it? Apparently it is illegal to send my passport via courier back to India.

ps: Thanks amira_mais.

 

[maplegal86]

Background info
* I am an Indian citizen working in Singapore for the past 1 year
* My girlfriend is an Indian citizen with Canadian PR living and working in CA for the past 2 years.
* We have been in a relationship for 7 years and have all the possible proof of the same right from college days (pictures, emails, messages, logs(phone calls everyday for the past 7 years!!) etc.)
* We will be getting engaged in December in India but married(traditional catholic marriage) only next year (december 2014).

Questions
1) While we wait for our traditional marriage next year end, can we get a registered marriage done and submit our application based on that?
2) Should we do the registered marriage in Singapore when she's here on a visit(she will be visiting in december) or in India (does it matter)?
2) Do I submit my application to Delhi(India) or Singapore? I hear it will be quite a hassle for me to send docs to delhi and go back and forth with them? On the other hand, the SG processing time is showing 25 month!! as opposed to Delhi's 7 months.
3) Do the witnesses to the registered mariage matter? If we do it in Singapore, we will have casual friends from SG as witnesses to the registered marriage.


Please please help with whatever information you can in this regard. We've finally made our decision to settle in Canada. We've been away from each other for nearly 2 years now and it's killing.

Thanks

Hey! I'm an Indian citizen and Singapore PR. Husband is Indian citizen and Canadian PR. I was working in Singapore and living with parents (we've been in S'pore for the past 21 years). My hubby flew down to Singapore after doing his landing in Canada and we got our registered marriage in Singapore. A few months after that, we got our traditional ceremony in India.

1) So you can get married legally in Singapore. Except as other members have said, provide evidence of your relationship in your application package to prove the authenticity of your marriage.

2) Go for Delhi. Singapore is way too long. I have applied in Delhi too. One drawback of applying to Delhi is, they ask for your passport very early. I have submitted my PP 4 months ago and I'm waiting in India since October. Sine you are working in Singapore, when Delhi asks for your PP, tell them you are working in Singapore and will need to get the PP back soon, and ask if they can request for PP when they are ready to issue the visa. This way you may need to go to India and stay there for maybe 2 weeks. Not 4 months and waiting like me.

3) I had my parents as witnesses. But anyone will do. Friends are a good idea. Take pictures. We didn't because we were going to have our traditional ceremony soon anyway.

As canadianwoman said, it's illegal to mail PP across the border. You don't wanna be in a situation where you are in S'pore, PP in India and they call for an interview. From what I have seen, they may call anyone for an interview. Delhi is quite unpredictable that way.

How long have you been in a relationship? Is this love or arranged marriage? Intercaste, inter-religion? These things may not matter in other countries, but Delhi VO can be quite suspicious. Since we are Indian, they will try to match you against other Indian couples. Don't mean to scare you, but this is my experience and what I've heard from other forum members. Join the New Delhi thread.
Hope this helps! PM me if you have any more queries. I'm happy to help!

 

[sheik]

Hi altron,
when your gf will marry you will she stay with you in Singapore?
take note that she is a PR and cant live outside canada for supposed time.
2. since she is a pr , it is her who will sponsor you form inside Canada since she is living in Canada.
3. where ever you got married is not a problem, and singapore is a geuine country and getting marriage there will have a positive impact.
4. it is your gf who will hve to send the application for sponsorship and it will follow sice se is considered living in canada

 

[alltron]

Thanks @Maplegal86 & Sheik.

@Maplegal86- On the last page of the Indian passport it is mentioned "Passport should not be sent out of any country by post. It should be in the custody of the holder or of a person authorised by the holder." So, I have 3 options:

1)When Delhi asks for it, I am going to ask one of my friends traveling back to India to give it to my family & get my family to post it to Delhi and then get it back to me the same way.

2)Or, do what you suggested and tell Delhi that I need the passport immediately as I am working in SG. Fly down to India, mail it to them & wait.

3) A Combination of options 1 and 2, wherein I send it to them via a friend and mention that they give it quickly as well, as I am in SG.

I prefer option 3.

1 question though - How does the Delhi Visa office communicate with you for your passport? Via email? I would like to know this, as the medium used influences the time and explaining the situation to them.

As for your other question about our relationship, we have a lot of proof in the form of pictures, chat/call logs etc. dating back a couple of years ago.

 

[maplegal86]

Thanks @ Maplegal86 & Sheik.

@ Maplegal86- On the last page of the Indian passport it is mentioned "Passport should not be sent out of any country by post. It should be in the custody of the holder or of a person authorised by the holder." So, I have 3 options:

1)When Delhi asks for it, I am going to ask one of my friends traveling back to India to give it to my family & get my family to post it to Delhi and then get it back to me the same way.

2)Or, do what you suggested and tell Delhi that I need the passport immediately as I am working in SG. Fly down to India, mail it to them & wait.

3) A Combination of options 1 and 2, wherein I send it to them via a friend and mention that they give it quickly as well, as I am in SG.

I prefer option 3.

1 question though - How does the Delhi Visa office communicate with you for your passport? Via email? I would like to know this, as the medium used influences the time and explaining the situation to them.

As for your other question about our relationship, we have a lot of proof in the form of pictures, chat/call logs etc. dating back a couple of years ago.

I should warn you outright that NDVO does not communicate effectively. I sent my PP on October 25th. There was no acknowledgement of receipt. My husband sent an email in November asking if they had received my PP and we got a reply in Feb, 3 months later! And in the email they said
1) We received your PP
2) We are waiting to review your file
3) Your patience is appreciated.

Everyone gets this standard email, so we shouldnt feel like they gave some special attention to us.

I quit my job when I filed for PR in June because I wanted to go stay with my husband in Canada on a visitor visa until NDVO called me to submit PP. I was in Canada from June til Sept when I got the PPR, I came back to Singapore to get Singapore PCC and went to India in October. I thought I'll spend 2 months in India with family and I would be in Canada in Jan, and here we are. It's March, no sign of a PP or PR.

With Option 1, pro: You can work in S'pore. con: if they call you for an interview, you'll need to request for PP and that may become a hassle, and if you need to travel for work, you'll need to request for PP back find some way to get it to you in S'pore

With Option3: Same as option 1. Where you and you passport are not in the same country!

If I were you I'd go for option 2. It has been done before by another forum member and your reason is completely valid. You are after all working! You can't wait until NDVO decides to grant you the visa.

NDVO is at the moment completely overloaded, apparently they get 100,000s of cases a year and I read that each officer makes a decision every 15 minutes. That's a lot of work! And unfortunately, certain countries, India included have a bad rap for being the hubs of fake marriages, so these officers are extra catious. So you can't entirely blame them either!

Wait for the PPR. Email them and say you are working in Singapore and cannot take leave from work X number of days, is it possible for them to request for PP when they are ready to issue visa? I know on this forum who has done this. He was working in the UAE. When he got the second request for PP, he flew to Delhi, and voila, got the PP back in one day.

My advice, don't quit your job.

You get the PP request by email. Though some people have gotten phone calls or snail mail. However, majority of the cases, it is email.

When they request for PP it does not mean your file is finalised. They may not even have cracked it open. They will take your passport and keep it on file. From other people's experience, it can be as much as 4 months before they even touch your file. Or for someone I know, the file was finalised and visa was granted but they didnt send PP back for a long time. Why? Only the visa gods know...

Alternatively, you can try your luck this way: when you get PPR, take leave from work, go to India. Email them and say you need PP back in x number of days to go back to work. If they dont reply to that request or you have to go back to India, request them to send the PP back and ask for second PPR, go back to Singapore and when they ask for PP 2nd time, go to India. This way you can try your luck, if they actually accept your request and process your file faster (highly doubt this will happen, but doesnt hurt to try) you will get your pp back soon. The drawback to this is, you may have to make 2 trips to India.

In my honest opinion, go for the option I previously listed, requesting 2nd PPR, with the alternative, the odds are against you.

One more thing: the Singapore PCC. Singapore Police doesnt not give a PCC without a strong requirement (i.e letter from Canadian High Comm) to non-citizens. So you will have to wait until NDVO gets your file, sees no Singapore PCC and sends you a letter asking you to submit Singapore PCC. You'll have to take this letter to the Police Cantonment Complex at Outram, give your fingerprints and about 2 weeks later you'll get the Singpaore PCC which you then mail to Delhi.

You may also need a Indian PCC. Unless you are highly connected in India, you will have to jump through hoops of fire and walk on blades to get the Indian PCC! So get your Indian PCC from Singapore's Indian high commission. For this, go to the Indian passport office in Little India (The Verge) and you get it in one day! Easy peasy!

It's good to include as much evidence as possible. Label your wedding pics with the 'vidhi' or ceremonial act being performed, make sure your parents, her parents, close family are also included in the pics. Friends and others too. Label them, name them in the pictures. Honeymoon hotel reservations, old emails, everything!

This is my experience talking. Please feel free to message me for more info. If I can help another person not waste his life like I did waiting for my passport back I will consider my work here done!

Best of luck!

 

[alltron]

wow, that was really informative, Maplegal86. I hope I can do the same for someone else too, on these forums, someday soon.

I will PM you for more info, as our situations are somewhat similar.

Thanks.

 

[amira_mais]

Really comprehensive advice from maplegal - I'm impressed with your thoroughness! But I would mention one caveat in regard to your recommended option of requesting a 2nd PPR when the application is closer to finalization...you mentioned a UAE forum member who took this route and got his visa in one day. Were you referring to fadil80? He did indeed get his visa very quickly after passport submission (4 days according to his profile) but I remember his case because he and my husband applied around the same time but his visa was issued 5 months later because he requested that 2nd PPR. So just wanted to mention that this route carries the risk of fairly significant time delays in getting the PR visa. Depending on your circumstances, that may not be an issue (working in Singapore for those extra months may be more important to you) but it's worth knowing upfront as you make your decision.