Whether a family with children can enter Canada with expired PR Cards through US

[david1697]

Well, I think I understand what your point is. You immigrated to a country without checking the job market, then blame immigration. Then somehow want immigration to give you a pass on the RO to keep the PR you can't / don't want to use because you couldn't find a job. Am I right?

As for lengthy posts, I think you are the one who writes the lengthy posts.

Canada immigration did not "bring" people to Canada. They made some rules that opened the door for people to apply. The requirements were low and a lot of people came. They couldn't all find jobs and then blamed immigration. Hmm.

No, you are completely wrong. You try to put into my mouth your own words, then you address an imaginary opponent. That's called a "straw man argument" and is generally considered a logical fallacy.
Read what I write and stop insinuating that your words and conclusions are mine.

You are unable, or unwilling, to give straightforward answers to direct questions I ask, therefore (I suspect) you resort to this sort of innuendo.


Below is the short summary (which is a quote from a my longer post) which clearly states what I mean:

what I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants.

I pointedly ask what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?

And why old FSW PR's are ones who must carry the full weight for the hostile job market conditions that are not of their making and are complete opposite of what they were supposedly grated a PR for?


Again, I am asking what is rationale and purpose behind it? Unlike in times of Justinian, we have a control over those whom we elect and we have every right to question why our elected officials make one or another law.
While no one disputes that law in effect is a law in effect, still, we have every right to question the reason why certain thing is a law to begin with.

 

[Leon]

Immigration didn't bring anybody to Canada. They just opened the doors wide and people came on their own. I already wrote that in my last post but I don't think you read it to the end.

So should immigration be responsible for that people moved to Canada without checking that they could get a job?

 

[david1697]

Immigration didn't bring anybody to Canada. They just opened the doors wide and people came on their own. I already wrote that in my last post but I don't think you read it to the end.

So should immigration be responsible for that people moved to Canada without checking that they could get a job?

You dodged my questions, and I think I know why. You probably work for government or CIC and will get fired if you give me an honest answer. It's ok, Leon. I understand.

As to the point you raise:
Of course government is responsible for regulating immigration. Are you going to dispute it?

When there are not enough jobs for existing PR's and Canadian natives, why government brings hundreds of thousands of more PR's and multiply existing oversupply of labor? Who is responsible for flooding job market with so many skilled immigrants while there is such extreme scarcity of jobs in Canada? Who is responsible for opening the floodgates and bringing so many more FSW's, under pretext of "shortage of skilled labor", when in fact there is such a tremendous over-supply of the said labor?

 

[kateg]

You dodged my questions, and I think I know why. You probably work for government or CIC and will get fired if you give me an honest answer. It's ok, Leon. I understand.

I would think you of all people would understand the term strawman. You set him up as something you don't know to be true, then declare victory for defeating him.

 

[kateg]

What I am asking is: is it really fair to punish Canadian PR's for breach of RO, when it's obvious that it's not their fault they can't find a job(other than survival job) in a hostile job market in Canada, and forced to go somewhere else where they can be gainfully employed?
It's FSW we are talking about, not people who immigrated to Canada under any OTHER category.

It's not a punishment. Canada selects potential Citizens based on possession of skills likely to correlate with success. If the permanent residents are unable to achieve that success, then there is little benefit to Canada in continuing to grant them that opportunity. As such, it makes sense to grant that status to someone else instead, particularly someone who may succeed where the last person failed.

 

[kateg]

1. No matter how you put it, PR's are punished for not meeting RO. Are you disputing that? Yes or No?

No. They simply are no longer rewarded for failure to abide by their side of the deal.

2. Is it not a matter of fact (not just my claim) that FSW's are brought to Canada based on pretense of shortage of labor in the given field, and their skills, education and experience to fill the shortage? Yes or No?

Again, no. P/Rs are generally brought to Canada on the basis of the need to deal with certain demographic issues, namely a declining birthrate. Applicants with LMIAs are brought in due to shortages, but they have jobs and aren't really relevant to this discussion.

3. Is it not also a matter of fact that there is a real shortage of vacancies in Canada, and fierce competition to fill almost any skilled position (not to confuse with skilled trades, such as crane operator and etc., or with regulated professions, such as in medical or engineering field)? Yes or No?

Not for applicants who are willing to do what it takes, no. There are some acute shortages - there's a local programming boot camp (8 weeks to be a software developer) that has a 100% hiring rate post-graduation. For low-skilled workers, there's a glut of applicants, but it then falls upon the applicant to not be one of the unqualified applicants.

4. Isn't above further aggravated by the fact that the entire experience, skills and education of Newly Landed Immigrant are ignored in a vicious cycle of "Though do not have Canadian experience" ? Yes or No?

For the competent ones, not really. There are ways to address that, and the proof of funds requirement helps ensure that immigrants have sufficient time to acclimate.

5. Isn't it further a matter of fact that due to #3 and #4 (which contradicts #2) a considerable number of FSW's (Skilled, highly educated, selected for skills and experience PR's) are either working on so called survival jobs (flipping burgers, working as cashiers at Walmart, etc.) OR forced to leave Canada and seek better job opportunity somewhere else?

This one is correct, and a good reason not to renew the Permanent Residency of those who violate their residence obligations. If they couldn't succeed the first time around, give someone else a chance.

 

[david1697]

I would think you of all people would understand the term strawman. You set him up as something you don't know to be true, then declare victory for defeating him.

FYI, a straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

 

[david1697]

It's not a punishment. Canada selects potential Citizens based on possession of skills likely to correlate with success. If the permanent residents are unable to achieve that success, then there is little benefit to Canada in continuing to grant them that opportunity. As such, it makes sense to grant that status to someone else instead, particularly someone who may succeed where the last person failed.

Please read what I write and answer questions I ask. And, in my opinion, to approve PR based on "shortage of skilled workers", thEn have PR face a bitter reality of a sperm race for an egg in a highly hostile job market is insidious enough. To blame then latter for "lack of success" is adding insult to injury.
Come to US and I show you what a success in highly competitive market is. It's extremely tough and difficult here after 2008 recession, but it's nothing to compare with hostile job market you have in Canada, which additionally discriminates against newcomers lowering all their previous education and experience to nothing more than fit to flip burgers.

.
And, again, please read what I write and answer questions I ask.

What I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants.

I pointedly ask what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?

And why old FSW PR's are ones who must carry the full weight for the hostile job market conditions that are not of their making and are complete opposite of what they were supposedly grated a PR for?


Again, I am asking what is rationale and purpose behind it? Unlike in times of Justinian, we have a control over those whom we elect and we have every right to question why our elected officials make one or another law.
While no one disputes that law in effect is a law in effect, still, we have every right to question the reason why certain thing is a law to begin with.

 

[david1697]

Not for applicants who are willing to do what it takes, no. There are some acute shortages - there's a local programming boot camp (8 weeks to be a software developer) that has a 100% hiring rate post-graduation. For low-skilled workers, there's a glut of applicants, but it then falls upon the applicant to not be one of the unqualified applicants.
For the competent ones, not really. There are ways to address that, and the proof of funds requirement helps ensure that immigrants have sufficient time to acclimate.

What are you talking about? Boot-camp to train and become a software developer? Then why not bring people without education and experience who will do anything and study anything to start from a scratch?

Myself and some other members of this forum stated this over and over again: if Canada does NOT value the foreign credentials, education and experience, then WHY bring people based on those unaccepted by Canadian job market skills/education/experience?
Bring burger flippers,taxi drivers, bring high school graduates, jobless people, bring people who lack any skill , education and experience , have them come to Canada to take boot-camps or undergrad school courses to learn a trade, skill, gain experience and slowly move up the ladder.
Who would object to that?
Someone ready to work at Walmart, to sweep floors, to flip burgers, to drive taxis, with no higher education or skills will be prepared to do those kind of works or to go to some boot-camp to learn skills in a trade they have never been a part of before.
But why select people based on their education and experience if Canadian hostile job market has ZERO regard for it?

 

[david1697]

Again, no. P/Rs are generally brought to Canada on the basis of the need to deal with certain demographic issues, namely a declining birthrate. Applicants with LMIAs are brought in due to shortages, but they have jobs and aren't really relevant to this discussion.

"According to a recent report by CIBC, the recently announced government plans to admit between 53,000 and 55,000 new Canadians in 2013 through an overhauled federal skilled worker program is a welcome development but not large enough to tackle the skilled labour shortage in the Canadian labour force."
www.canadianimmigrant.ca/slider/changes-to-fsw-program-not-enough-to-tackle-skilled-labour-shortage-report

"The Federal Skilled Worker visa is designed for individuals who have the qualifications, skills or experiences to fill Canada's skill shortages and contribute to the Canadian economy. Over 25,500 Federal Skilled Worker Visas will be granted on a first-come, first-served basis between May 1, 2014 and April 30, 2015."
https://www.migrationexpert.ca/work_visa/federal_skilled_worker_visa/



"Canada is one of the most sought-after countries for 'highly skilled professionals'. With the country's propensity for one of the most welcoming, peaceful and prosperous nations in the world, Canada has seen a huge boost in the demand for immigration from people around the world."
http://anitaanneasra.hubpages.com/hub/Canadian-Jobs-Market-and-the-opportunities-for-Foreign-Workers


Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney announced the department's plans on 10 April to fill Canada's growing labour shortages in skilled trade occupations. He explained that the changes were expected to result in an assessment system that will make it easier for badly needed skilled tradespersons to immigrate to Canada."Our Government recognizes that our country faces a critical shortage in certain skilled trades," said Kenney. "That's why we are taking concrete steps to address this problem at a national level."
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2012-04-16/canada/proposed-changes-announced-for-canadian-federal-skilled-worker-program.htm

You can Google thousands of more links.

 

[kateg]

Come to US and I show you what a success in highly competitive market is. It's extremely tough and difficult here after 2008 recession, but it's nothing to compare with hostile job market you have in Canada, which additionally discriminates against newcomers lowering all their previous education and experience to nothing more than fit to flip burgers.

I came from the US, and lived on the East Coast, West Coast, and everywhere in between. I've worked out of NYC, and out of LA. I know what the job market is in Canada.

I also know how easy it is for someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing to get a job in Vancouver, provided they are in a non-regulated industry.

What I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants.

There has been a lot of abuse of the system. When I landed, there was a woman who hadn't been to Canada in 10 years in front of me, and her husband was even longer. As a matter of procedural fairness, selective enforcement is a bad thing. In order to find out how long people have been gone, they have to ask.

If there's a problem with the ROs, they should be changed, not ignored.

I pointedly ask what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?[/b]

What benefit to Canada is there for unemployed P/Rs at all? If they can't thrive, they can leave, and then the R/O will cause them to lose Permanent Residence status. Canada can't just deport them, so there aren't a lot of ways to get rid of those who don't succeed otherwise.

And why old FSW PR's are ones who must carry the full weight for the hostile job market conditions that are not of their making and are complete opposite of what they were supposedly grated a PR for?

You're asking why skilled workers are expected to find work, so they can be Canadian Skilled Workers? P/R isn't a reward - it's a chance. When you apply, you are asking Canada for a chance to try to thrive. If you can't thrive, you shouldn't be asking - it's an opportunity, not a gift, not a reward.

Again, I am asking what is rationale and purpose behind it? Unlike in times of Justinian, we have a control over those whom we elect and we have every right to question why our elected officials make one or another law.

The rationale is to reduce the number of Permanent Residents, and to start with those who don't have ties to Canada. It's intended to encourage people to succeed, or leave and let someone else have a chance. It provides for a difference between Citizenship (which can't be lost) and Permanent Residence, which can - with the exception of serving in the armed forces and voting, there's not much else to differentiate the two.

 

[david1697]

I came from the US, and lived on the East Coast, West Coast, and everywhere in between. I've worked out of NYC, and out of LA. I know what the job market is in Canada.

I also know how easy it is for someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing to get a job in Vancouver, provided they are in a non-regulated industry.

And I know how tough it is in USA, and I know me and my spouse are professionally employed here. Don't tell me fairy tales. Please. I am someone who is on the ground and am aware what the real picture here and there is.

There are way too many Canadian PR's, including on this site, who are struggling, working at Walmart, Burger King, driving taxis and so on, who qualified for PR and came to Canada based on higher education and experience they have. Go tell them how wonderful Canadian job market is. Haha

There has been a lot of abuse of the system. When I landed, there was a woman who hadn't been to Canada in 10 years in front of me, and her husband was even longer. As a matter of procedural fairness, selective enforcement is a bad thing. In order to find out how long people have been gone, they have to ask.

You still don't understand the question I asked, Sir/Madame, do you? I did NOT ask "why they ask questions from border crossing PR at POE".

THESE are my words:
"What I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants."

Not to offend you, there is nothing wrong with not knowing well any language other than your mother tongue. I just wonder how come ,with your not so great understanding of English....not only you were employed in New York, East Coast, West Coast and everywhere in between, but you speak with such a great confidence about Canadian job market, implying how receptive it is to "someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing". Do you mean to say that with your English skills as demonstrated here (not sure what your other skills are) you had no trouble finding a job in Canada)?

May I ask what field have you applied in? What work are you doing now? And did you get this job in a fair competition , applying like everyone else (based on job ad in classifieds/indeed/web), or did someone you knew inside "fix it" for you, through referral, friends recommendation and so on?

If there's a problem with the ROs, they should be changed, not ignored.

Too bad you didn't read (or failed to discern) what I asked. Please scroll up and read above. Thank you.

What benefit to Canada is there for unemployed P/Rs at all? If they can't thrive, they can leave, and then the R/O will cause them to lose Permanent Residence status. Canada can't just deport them, so there aren't a lot of ways to get rid of those who don't succeed otherwise.

But that is NOT the question I ask. I ask "what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?"


I know moderator would block me if I asked you "Did you buy your IELTS test results? You can't understand even simplest sentence in English!", but I am not going to do that. I don't want the moderator to delete my post or ban me on this forum. So. let's skip this part.

You're asking why skilled workers are expected to find work, so they can be Canadian Skilled Workers? P/R isn't a reward - it's a chance. When you apply, you are asking Canada for a chance to try to thrive. If you can't thrive, you shouldn't be asking - it's an opportunity, not a gift, not a reward.

Read questions I ask and stop asking your own questions claiming they are mine.

The rationale is to reduce the number of Permanent Residents, and to start with those who don't have ties to Canada. It's intended to encourage people to succeed, or leave and let someone else have a chance. It provides for a difference between Citizenship (which can't be lost) and Permanent Residence, which can - with the exception of serving in the armed forces and voting, there's not much else to differentiate the two.

:-X :-[ :-\ :'(

 

[kateg]

And I know how tough it is in USA, and I know me and my spouse are professionally employed here. Don't tell me fairy tales. Please. I am someone who is on the ground and am aware what the real picture here and there is.

As am I.

There are way too many Canadian PR's, including on this site, who are struggling, working at Walmart, Burger King, driving taxis and so on, who qualified for PR and came to Canada based on higher education and experience they have. Go tell them how wonderful Canadian job market is. Haha

Yesterday, I spent time at a networking event sponsored by lighthouse labs. (http://www.lighthouselabs.ca/). They offer training for software developers - after the completion of the (paid) internship that comes after, 100% of their graduates (so far) have been hired in their chosen profession. There are jobs out there in Canada.

Regulated professions are a different matter, but there are jobs out there for well-qualified applicants.

THESE are my words:
"What I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants."

I answered it indirectly, but let me make it simple. Some P/Rs will thrive. Some will not. Those who find the market "too hostile" are more likely to leave, while those who are able to succeed stay. There's no problem with letting more qualified applicants in, provided they are able to succeed. The government of Canada has changed their system to better select for those people - all of the P/Rs being denied for not meeting residency requirements are pre-Express Entry. Most of the people currently selected either already have a LMIA/PNP, or are in Canada for some other reason (Canadian work experience/School Experience). These people are more likely to succeed.

Not to offend you, there is nothing wrong with not knowing well any language other than your mother tongue.

People who live in an area should speak the language. Being illiterate is (in my opinion) shameful. I will not migrate somewhere where I can not be functional in the local native tongue; I am currently enrolled in a French program and will be taking the Citizenship exam in French, when that day comes.

I just wonder how come ,with your not so great understanding of English....not only you were employed in New York, East Coast, West Coast and everywhere in between, but you speak with such a great confidence about Canadian job market, implying how receptive it is to "someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing". Do you mean to say that with your English skills as demonstrated here (not sure what your other skills are) you had no trouble finding a job in Canada)?

That would be correct, yes. The same was true for my spouse.

May I ask what field have you applied in? What work are you doing now? And did you get this job in a fair competition , applying like everyone else (based on job ad in classifieds/indeed/web), or did someone you knew inside "fix it" for you, through referral, friends recommendation and so on?

The week after I arrived, I sent out three applications. I found the companies on Craigslist and indeed. Two would not hire foreigners, the third was rather interested. They wanted me full time instead of part time; I told them that to do so, they would need a LMIA. They applied for the LMIA, and it was granted. My experience is in management and software development, but I am also qualified in sales. If one's willing to do commissioned sales, job hunting gets even easier, but it's not a steady paycheck.

Too bad you didn't read (or failed to discern) what I asked. Please scroll up and read above. Thank you.

Too bad you don't realize that I've answered your question repeatedly. Allow me to simplify: Permanent Residents are not all equal. The fact that some Permanent Residents are unable to find jobs does not mean that any Permanent Resident cannot find a job. As you say, many are taking survival jobs. They were also all selected under an older system that did not strongly emphasize the factors found to correlate with financial success. It makes perfect sense to get rid of Permanent Residents who violated the terms of their agreements, while simultaneously accepting those that will likely benefit Canada.

But that is NOT the question I ask. I ask "what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?"

Some fields have a glut. Some fields do not. Some will be more successful than others at finding jobs. Express Entry gives 600 points (basically, automatic Permanent Residency) to anyone who can find a job where there were no qualified Canadians. Anyone who gets admitted that way a) already has a job, and b) isn't going to be taking one from a Canadian. Canada would do well to have more of those people. The rest of the people selected tend to have good English (or French) skills, a high level of education, and a strong educational background.

Are you really suggesting that it doesn't make sense to deny entry to those who said they would maintain ties, while granting entry to those who who may have both the tools and desire to succeed?

I know moderator would block me if I asked you "Did you buy your IELTS test results? You can't understand even simplest sentence in English!", but I am not going to do that. I don't want the moderator to delete my post or ban me on this forum. So. let's skip this part.

I can't tell if you use the phrase "can't understand even simplest" ironically or not. My test scores are quite good, thank you very much.

 

[david1697]

As am I.

Yesterday, I spent time at a networking event sponsored by lighthouse labs. (http://www.lighthouselabs.ca/). They offer training for software developers - after the completion of the (paid) internship that comes after, 100% of their graduates (so far) have been hired in their chosen profession. There are jobs out there in Canada.

Regulated professions are a different matter, but there are jobs out there for well-qualified applicants.

I answered it indirectly, but let me make it simple. Some P/Rs will thrive. Some will not. Those who find the market "too hostile" are more likely to leave, while those who are able to succeed stay. There's no problem with letting more qualified applicants in, provided they are able to succeed. The government of Canada has changed their system to better select for those people - all of the P/Rs being denied for not meeting residency requirements are pre-Express Entry. Most of the people currently selected either already have a LMIA/PNP, or are in Canada for some other reason (Canadian work experience/School Experience). These people are more likely to succeed.
People who live in an area should speak the language. Being illiterate is (in my opinion) shameful. I will not migrate somewhere where I can not be functional in the local native tongue; I am currently enrolled in a French program and will be taking the Citizenship exam in French, when that day comes.

That would be correct, yes. The same was true for my spouse.

The week after I arrived, I sent out three applications. I found the companies on Craigslist and indeed. Two would not hire foreigners, the third was rather interested. They wanted me full time instead of part time; I told them that to do so, they would need a LMIA. They applied for the LMIA, and it was granted. My experience is in management and software development, but I am also qualified in sales. If one's willing to do commissioned sales, job hunting gets even easier, but it's not a steady paycheck.

Too bad you don't realize that I've answered your question repeatedly. Allow me to simplify: Permanent Residents are not all equal. The fact that some Permanent Residents are unable to find jobs does not mean that any Permanent Resident cannot find a job. As you say, many are taking survival jobs. They were also all selected under an older system that did not strongly emphasize the factors found to correlate with financial success. It makes perfect sense to get rid of Permanent Residents who violated the terms of their agreements, while simultaneously accepting those that will likely benefit Canada.

Some fields have a glut. Some fields do not. Some will be more successful than others at finding jobs. Express Entry gives 600 points (basically, automatic Permanent Residency) to anyone who can find a job where there were no qualified Canadians. Anyone who gets admitted that way a) already has a job, and b) isn't going to be taking one from a Canadian. Canada would do well to have more of those people. The rest of the people selected tend to have good English (or French) skills, a high level of education, and a strong educational background.

Are you really suggesting that it doesn't make sense to deny entry to those who said they would maintain ties, while granting entry to those who who may have both the tools and desire to succeed?

I can't tell if you use the phrase "can't understand even simplest" ironically or not. My test scores are quite good, thank you very much.

You are now doing the same thing Leon was.
Unless you bought your IELTS test results (And I am not saying you have), which would explain your lack of comprehension of sentences written in plain English, it's evident that what you are doing is: advancing straw man arguments (claiming to refute my argument, when in fact ignoring what I write and refuting your own counterarguments, which have nothing to do with mine). You persistently avoid answering direct questions and keep repeating things irrelevant to my points.

And I have already addressed some of your "bright" ideas, such as teaching fro scratch, to some totally clueless in IT immigrant, a software developer skills. I said if Canada wants those who will come to Canada to study anything from scratch and sweep the floors in the meantime, then WHY NOT bring people WITHOUT any skills, education, experience? If burger flippers and taxi drivers, with potential to study and grow as they go, is what Canada needs then why fool around with Highly Skilled FSW's , who cme to Canada only to discover there are no jobs waiting for them except at Walmart? Of course you ignored it , as you will again, because it doesn't serve your agenda to critically analyze the common sense question and honestly respond to it.

It seems as if we have on this website people who are part of PR advertisement industry , who are ordered to say only things that describe things in rosy pictures, and who under no circumstances will admit obvious and self-evident or answer straightforward questions.

And, for most part, I would stay quite and not bother with this advertisement agenda, if this was another tooth whitener or hair restoration creme or snake oil which was being peddled here.

Unfortunately, we deal with some very costly consequences and such a divorced from reality propaganda can not be absorbed without objections.

Once again, below are my questions and points I raise.

What I am doing is questioning the rationale behind such aggressive enforcement of RO at times when hundreds of thousands of PR's are brought into Canada while job market is so hostile to Landed Immigrants.

I pointedly ask what benefit is there for Canada and native Canadians when such an enforcement measures are taken to bring as many PR's to stay inside Canada while job market is so hostile to PR's and flooded with the over-supply of skilled labor?

And why old FSW PR's are ones who must carry the full weight for the hostile job market conditions that are not of their making and are complete opposite of what they were supposedly grated a PR for?

Don't you think there is something seriously wrong with job market (extraordinary oversupply of desperately looking for job labor, wink-wink!) if immigrants from Thailand, Pakistan and India go back to their home country and breach RO, because they can get better jobs and have a better life-style in where they come from?


Again, I am asking what is rationale and purpose behind it (bringing so many PR into Canada and enforcing their stay, and stripping PR from those who leave) at the time when Canada already has such a great number of skilled PR's who are either jobless or work depressing survival jobs? Unlike in times of Justinian, we have a control over those whom we elect and we have every right to question why our elected officials make one or another law.
While no one disputes that law in effect is a law in effect, still, we have every right to question the reason why certain thing is a law to begin with.

 

[kateg]

david1697, I've answered your question. Multiple times.

If you are unable to understand that, there's little point in continuing the discussion. It's not a conversation when one person sticks their fingers in their ears and goes "la, la, la, I can't hear you."