Sponsored underage child got married and hid from her parents while coming

[Madal]

If you think this one is confusing, check out some of the other posts by the OP....

If you think people of this world all live under same situation and are all seeking refugee in a country called Canada, you are totally mistaken. We live in a world that some kids seek to reunite with their mother by flying underneath the tire of an airplane. Perhaps you will die of a confusion if you hear more of similar cases we have here in Edmonton, Canada.
You guys don’t discourage people from answering what they know about cases. And I would advise you not to answer those questions that you don’t have an answer to. Just refrain from answering in such a negative way.
There is a country called Somalia which is located in East Africa ( I am sure you haven’t heard of that). This country is without government for the last 24 years. There are all sorts of incidents, and so many people are scattered around the world seeking reunification to their loved one.
There is no joke and I am not kidding. It is not also necessary that I am an immigration lawyer or registered consultant to post a question to this forum. There are hundreds of cases that comes to our Somali Community offices everywhere in Canada. We try to help those we believe are victims, by giving them the right advice. We also try to tell, encourage and abide by our Canadian laws.
I am also telling you that CIC is not the only agency that legislates rules and laws for refugee. There are many other organization which CIC has to abide by which sets limits to advocates for refugee. There are many human rights laws that makes CIC to agree that there are exceptional cases to all the rules they drive. There is a possibility to change the rule, if we all see it fit.
But people like you are thinking like single-celled-animal.
There is nothing wrong with the teenage girl who left her husband and a child. Read again my case if you are willing to learn more form this forum and make contribution. The theme of the question is that she loved and was married to a untouchable blacksmith which she was afraid of telling her parents to. There is no law in the refugee camps of Kenya, where there is the largest refugee camp in the world, and only Somalis live. Why to joke! The parents didn’t know. The sponsor didn’t know. Whose fault is it. The girl was not interviewed. She is legally here in Canada for two months. Think outside the box.
Please I thank you for your answers and contributions, but I beg you not to discourage people from actively participating this forum. This forum is not closed. If you want to know the genuineness of all the cases I posted, ask me. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I will show you all the families that approach us every day and we refer them for legal advice for those whom you believe are the holders of government papers ( the consultants and lawyers).
Madal

 

[Madal]

If you think this one is confusing, check out some of the other posts by the OP....

If you think people of this world all live under same situation and are all seeking refugee in a country called Canada, you are totally mistaken. We live in a world that some kids seek to reunite with their mother by flying underneath the tire of an airplane. Perhaps you will die of a confusion if you hear more of similar cases we have here in Edmonton, Canada.
You guys don’t discourage people from answering what they know about cases. And I would advise you not to answer those questions that you don’t have an answer to. Just refrain from answering in such a negative way.
There is a country called Somalia which is located in East Africa ( I am sure you haven’t heard of that). This country is without government for the last 24 years. There are all sorts of incidents, and so many people are scattered around the world seeking reunification to their loved one.
There is no joke and I am not kidding. It is not also necessary that I am an immigration lawyer or registered consultant to post a question to this forum. There are hundreds of cases that comes to our Somali Community offices everywhere in Canada. We try to help those we believe are victims, by giving them the right advice. We also try to tell, encourage and abide by our Canadian laws.
I am also telling you that CIC is not the only agency that legislates rules and laws for refugee. There are many other organization which CIC has to abide by which sets limits to advocates for refugee. There are many human rights laws that makes CIC to agree that there are exceptional cases to all the rules they drive. There is a possibility to change the rule, if we all see it fit.
But people like you are thinking like single-celled-animal.
There is nothing wrong with the teenage girl who left her husband and a child. Read again my case if you are willing to learn more form this forum and make contribution. The theme of the question is that she loved and was married to a untouchable blacksmith which she was afraid of telling her parents to. There is no law in the refugee camps of Kenya, where there is the largest refugee camp in the world, and only Somalis live. Why to joke! The parents didn’t know. The sponsor didn’t know. Whose fault is it. The girl was not interviewed. She is legally here in Canada for two months. Think outside the box.
Please I thank you for your answers and contributions, but I beg you not to discourage people from actively participating this forum. This forum is not closed. If you want to know the genuineness of all the cases I posted, ask me. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I will show you all the families that approach us every day and we refer them for legal advice for those whom you believe are the holders of government papers ( the consultants and lawyers).
Madal

 

[jomz]

If you think people of this world all live under same situation and are all seeking refugee in a country called Canada, you are totally mistaken. We live in a world that some kids seek to reunite with their mother by flying underneath the tire of an airplane. Perhaps you will die of a confusion if you hear more of similar cases we have here in Edmonton, Canada.
You guys don't discourage people from answering what they know about cases. And I would advise you not to answer those questions that you don't have an answer to. Just refrain from answering in such a negative way.
There is a country called Somalia which is located in East Africa ( I am sure you haven't heard of that). This country is without government for the last 24 years. There are all sorts of incidents, and so many people are scattered around the world seeking reunification to their loved one.
There is no joke and I am not kidding. It is not also necessary that I am an immigration lawyer or registered consultant to post a question to this forum. There are hundreds of cases that comes to our Somali Community offices everywhere in Canada. We try to help those we believe are victims, by giving them the right advice. We also try to tell, encourage and abide by our Canadian laws.
I am also telling you that CIC is not the only agency that legislates rules and laws for refugee. There are many other organization which CIC has to abide by which sets limits to advocates for refugee. There are many human rights laws that makes CIC to agree that there are exceptional cases to all the rules they drive. There is a possibility to change the rule, if we all see it fit.
But people like you are thinking like single-celled-animal.
There is nothing wrong with the teenage girl who left her husband and a child. Read again my case if you are willing to learn more form this forum and make contribution. The theme of the question is that she loved and was married to a untouchable blacksmith which she was afraid of telling her parents to. There is no law in the refugee camps of Kenya, where there is the largest refugee camp in the world, and only Somalis live. Why to joke! The parents didn't know. The sponsor didn't know. Whose fault is it. The girl was not interviewed. She is legally here in Canada for two months. Think outside the box.
Please I thank you for your answers and contributions, but I beg you not to discourage people from actively participating this forum. This forum is not closed. If you want to know the genuineness of all the cases I posted, ask me. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I will show you all the families that approach us every day and we refer them for legal advice for those whom you believe are the holders of government papers ( the consultants and lawyers).
Madal

With all due respect, you say that they come from Somalia to be safe and live by abiding Canadian Laws, however it is Somali's in Calgary, Edmonton and Fort McMurray that are major players in Alberta's drug trade and are high on the radar of Alberta Law Enforcement Response Team. Bottom line is this girl you speak off is free to go back to Somalia and live with her husband and child as under Canadian Laws (immigration) she will never be able to sponsor either the husband or child into Canada. Laws cannot be manipulated to suit the Somali community.

 

[Madal]

With all due respect, you say that they come from Somalia to be safe and live by abiding Canadian Laws, however it is Somali's in Calgary, Edmonton and Fort McMurray that are major players in Alberta's drug trade and are high on the radar of Alberta Law Enforcement Response Team. Bottom line is this girl you speak off is free to go back to Somalia and live with her husband and child as under Canadian Laws (immigration) she will never be able to sponsor either the husband or child into Canada. Laws cannot be manipulated to suit the Somali community.

Why do you insult the whole Somali community? It is a shame to be in this forum and call names. I don't from which community you belong to, but I am sure there is no that are too bad to under that radar. You changed the whole subject and I cannot endure that type of answer. You don't have right to insult my community as a whole, this case is to be taken to court.

I was asking an advice for a teenage victim but not expecting such a kind of answer from a paramecium.

Madal

 

[jomz]

Why do you insult the whole Somali community? It is a shame to be in this forum and call names. I don't from which community you belong to, but I am sure there is no that are too bad to under that radar. You changed the whole subject and I cannot endure that type of answer. You don't have right to insult my community as a whole, this case is to be taken to court.

I was asking an advice for a teenage victim but not expecting such a kind of answer from a paramecium.

Madal

It is not an insult to the community. It's called stating the facts. And the teenager you are asking about is not a victim, she is the perpetrator in a case of immigration fraud.

 

[Madal]

It is not an insult to the community. It's called stating the facts. And the teenager you are asking about is not a victim, she is the perpetrator in a case of immigration fraud.

You don't understand what an immigration fraud is. You need to understand the context under discussion. Plus if you said the whole Somali community is under surveillance, why you are again retrieving. Stick to your previous statement.
Madal

 

[jomz]

You don't understand what an immigration fraud is. You need to understand the context under discussion. Plus if you said the whole Somali community is under surveillance, why you are again retrieving. Stick to your previous statement.
Madal

You are very misguided and apparently blind to the fraud. Tell me how did the parents now find out the girl is married back home and has a child? She told her parents, correct? And she had no opportunity to tell them when she was still back in Somalia, while at the airport before the flight, during the 10 hour + flight to Canada? Come on Madal, I know you are trying to help the family but even you have to realize that laws cannot be manipulated. First question CIC or IRB would ask is why the girl did not advise the officer at the airport of her situation. You know very well, that if she did that, her PR could be revoked as well for misrepresentation, and her parents' PR may have been put in jeopardy.

 

[Madal]

You are very misguided and apparently blind to the fraud. Tell me how did the parents now find out the girl is married back home and has a child? She told her parents, correct? And she had no opportunity to tell them when she was still back in Somalia, while at the airport before the flight, during the 10 hour + flight to Canada? Come on Madal, I know you are trying to help the family but even you have to realize that laws cannot be manipulated. First question CIC or IRB would ask is why the girl did not advise the officer at the airport of her situation. You know very well, that if she did that, her PR could be revoked as well for misrepresentation, and her parents' PR may have been put in jeopardy.

You are now coming little closer to the point. What do you think? Every refugee coming to Canada know the rules? Tell me who is suppose to teach them before they arrive? Who is to give them orientation? It is the responsibility of the sponsor as well as the embassy to let them them what rules are to be abode. She doesn't have to know IRB and CIC. She was worried about her whole future. Refugees are completely perplexed with fear of coming to an unknown country from such a remote refugee camp. She has never been on an airplane. She never traveled 40 hours in the air. Don't think every body is like you coming as an international student with a visa who is is like tourists, appreciating the flight and has lap tops ....

 

[Obronibini]

You are now coming little closer to the point. What do you think? Every refugee coming to Canada know the rules? Tell me who is suppose to teach them before they arrive? Who is to give them orientation? It is the responsibility of the sponsor as well as the embassy to let them them what rules are to be abode. She doesn't have to know IRB and CIC. She was worried about her whole future. Refugees are completely perplexed with fear of coming to an unknown country from such a remote refugee camp. She has never been on an airplane. She never traveled 40 hours in the air. Don't think every body is like you coming as an international student with a visa who is is like tourists, appreciating the flight and has lap tops ....

ignorant of the law is no excuse! Simple as that . They can't be sponsersed . Your explanations all of sudern got better! Looks like two people typing .. Being harsh on people won't help. Hope you aren't charging innocent people huge sums of money !

 

[jomz]

You are now coming little closer to the point. What do you think? Every refugee coming to Canada know the rules? Tell me who is suppose to teach them before they arrive? Who is to give them orientation? It is the responsibility of the sponsor as well as the embassy to let them them what rules are to be abode. She doesn't have to know IRB and CIC. She was worried about her whole future. Refugees are completely perplexed with fear of coming to an unknown country from such a remote refugee camp. She has never been on an airplane. She never traveled 40 hours in the air. Don't think every body is like you coming as an international student with a visa who is is like tourists, appreciating the flight and has lap tops ....

You are assuming I don't know anything about refugees, or being a refugee, meanwhile my father was a refugee and our family was separated for 8 years, yes that's right i did not see my father for 8 years when growing up, he fled to Canada from a political prosecution, only to be put in immigration prison in Canada at one point. However when asked if he is married and if he has kids he was truthful, so once his claim was approved our family was able to be reunited.

So they did not know the rules, no one does coming to Canada, but when being asked direct questions on arrival truth has to be told to the immigration officers at the airport on arrival. In this case neither her parents, siblings or the girl in question advised the immigration officer that she left behind a baby and a husband. As others have mentioned, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and I can tell you that as unfortunate as it may be CIC will not bend the rules to accommodate someone who has misrepresented the truth, or hid the truth on arrival.

You can try to guide them to file an H&C case, but you know very well that you will be exposing the girl and maybe the principal applicant to putting their own PR on the line.


You may have already read some cases, but if not here is one where disclosure wasn't made.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2009/2009canlii76266/2009canlii76266.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAac29tYWxpYSBtaXNyZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiAAAAAAAQ

and specifically:

The Court of Appeal has therefore decided that the impugned regulation is not utltra vires the IRPA particularly in cases where there is a misrepresentation to immigration authorities. Here, however, the Applicant did not know of his son's existence at the time of his application for permanent residence. He cannot, therefore, be said to have concealed this information or to have misrepresented his circumstances. In my view, it matters not whether non-disclosure is deliberate or not. The regulation is clear, paragraph 117(9)(d) makes no distinction as to the reason for which an non-accompanying family member of the sponsor was not disclosed in his application for permanent residence. What matters, is the absence of examination by an officer that necessarily flows from the non-disclosure.

 

[keesio]

If you think people of this world all live under same situation and are all seeking refugee in a country called Canada, you are totally mistaken. We live in a world that some kids seek to reunite with their mother by flying underneath the tire of an airplane. Perhaps you will die of a confusion if you hear more of similar cases we have here in Edmonton, Canada.
You guys don't discourage people from answering what they know about cases. And I would advise you not to answer those questions that you don't have an answer to. Just refrain from answering in such a negative way.
There is a country called Somalia which is located in East Africa ( I am sure you haven't heard of that). This country is without government for the last 24 years. There are all sorts of incidents, and so many people are scattered around the world seeking reunification to their loved one.
There is no joke and I am not kidding. It is not also necessary that I am an immigration lawyer or registered consultant to post a question to this forum. There are hundreds of cases that comes to our Somali Community offices everywhere in Canada. We try to help those we believe are victims, by giving them the right advice. We also try to tell, encourage and abide by our Canadian laws.
I am also telling you that CIC is not the only agency that legislates rules and laws for refugee. There are many other organization which CIC has to abide by which sets limits to advocates for refugee. There are many human rights laws that makes CIC to agree that there are exceptional cases to all the rules they drive. There is a possibility to change the rule, if we all see it fit.
But people like you are thinking like single-celled-animal.
There is nothing wrong with the teenage girl who left her husband and a child. Read again my case if you are willing to learn more form this forum and make contribution. The theme of the question is that she loved and was married to a untouchable blacksmith which she was afraid of telling her parents to. There is no law in the refugee camps of Kenya, where there is the largest refugee camp in the world, and only Somalis live. Why to joke! The parents didn't know. The sponsor didn't know. Whose fault is it. The girl was not interviewed. She is legally here in Canada for two months. Think outside the box.
Please I thank you for your answers and contributions, but I beg you not to discourage people from actively participating this forum. This forum is not closed. If you want to know the genuineness of all the cases I posted, ask me. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I will show you all the families that approach us every day and we refer them for legal advice for those whom you believe are the holders of government papers ( the consultants and lawyers).
Madal

Our issue with you posts is that you are vague in your questions and they are all over the place. If you actually clarify the details better and especially your role in it, then we can answer help you better. Looks back at some of your threads. How many times did someone say that there are a lot of things unclear and that your questions are confusing and ask you to clarify?

This is the FIRST post where you actually explain, even a little, what your role is in all these cases. Before then, we can only guess. We even asked you and you never bothered to every clarify. So you just left us confused every time.

And we are doing our best to answer your questions with the vague details (you still have yet to answer exactly who is sponsoring whom, what kind of sponsorship this, and if the girl is classified as a dependent of the parents who are being sponsored). In this case, assuming the girl is a dependent, the girl was not eligible for sponsorship because once married, she is no longer a dependent of her parents (maybe a senior can clarify if there is any exception for minors but I doubt it). So not only is her PR status obtained under misrepresentation, but she cannot sponsor her husband and child. This is the rule and CIC is pretty strict about declaring family members.

 

[keesio]

Ok, sounds like this is another refugee situation.

Madal - you handle very complex situations. You are better off getting professional advice (immigration lawyers) for the people you try to help since there are too many red flags. Misrepresentation, though unintentional, happened here and that is very bad. We are not consultants but just people who are familiar with the system and can give some general advice on more standard cases. The cases you describe are anything but.

 

[zardoz]

I'm concerned that the OP seems to believe that neither the IRPA or IRPR apply to "refugees", even though "Refugee" appears in the title of both items of legislation.

Perhaps we are not the appropriate audience for his questions, as this is not the first thread that has questioned his motives, and abilities...

It would also be better if he declared his role in the situation BEFORE asking for input, as this would permit other forum members to make an informed decision about whether to get involved in the first place.

 

[Madal]

Our issue with you posts is that you are vague in your questions and they are all over the place. If you actually clarify the details better and especially your role in it, then we can answer help you better. Looks back at some of your threads. How many times did someone say that there are a lot of things unclear and that your questions are confusing and ask you to clarify?

This is the FIRST post where you actually explain, even a little, what your role is in all these cases. Before then, we can only guess. We even asked you and you never bothered to every clarify. So you just left us confused every time.

And we are doing our best to answer your questions with the vague details (you still have yet to answer exactly who is sponsoring whom, what kind of sponsorship this, and if the girl is classified as a dependent of the parents who are being sponsored). In this case, assuming the girl is a dependent, the girl was not eligible for sponsorship because once married, she is no longer a dependent of her parents (maybe a senior can clarify if there is any exception for minors but I doubt it). So not only is her PR status obtained under misrepresentation, but she cannot sponsor her husband and child. This is the rule and CIC is pretty strict about declaring family members.

Thank you all who responded.
I am not professional consultant. I do not also represent the client whoever he is. We am one of the community elders. Lawyers are expensive, therefore we try to ask expert advise before telling the family to approach an expensive lawyer. People come to our community center with such vague cases, sometimes it may take us hours and hours, to learn their real situation. We cannot let them down, since we see them as an innocent citizens, we want to calmly teach them the law is above anyone in Canada. We try to make them understand the rules as much as we can. At times, they will approach us with cases, and before they even wait our responses, they will disappear and go to other provinces. For instance, all the previous cases we raised are no longer here in Edmonton. They all gone to Ontario where they think they will get better organized community members. We don't charge this type of service anything, it is voluntary and free of charge. When a disadvantaged person come to Edmonton, people in his surrounding tell him/her to come to the community office for help, and we are group of young people who volunteer ten hour per week to guide these confused refugees to the right path.

But, in this type of forum, people have to respect one another. It is possible to ask the person to clarify his/her case if he has any further answers, but it is not good to call names as some people did to me. If there is any doubt about the question, you can directly ask some specific questions, if you believe you can have an answer to that.

Please ask me where exactly to elaborate more on the case. We am still interested in helping this young girl whom we see her as a victim of old culture and unclear orientation of CIC systems.

 

[scylla]

The girl can never sponsor her husband and child. It's too late because they weren't declared before she landed. And if she had declared her husband before she had landed, then she would have been removed from her parents' application (and not received PR) since she would no longer have qualified as a dependent.

She has two options: (1) She can return to her home country and live with her husband and child there; (2) Her husband can apply to immigrate independently if he qualifies (e.g. as a skilled worker) and include the child as a dependent in his application.