Regulations Changed September 30, 2010

[matthewc]

As I said already I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and wait to see how the manuals are changed and how this plays out in practice. The concern, though, is that some people in legitimate relationships do get married primarily to gain status. This makes that no longer allowed.

Let's play thought experiments:

Bob is on a work visa and Jane is a Canadian citizen. They've been dating for over a year, are totally besotted with each other, and got engaged and moved in together a few months ago. Their relationship couldn't be more genuine. Bob and Jane plan to have a big wedding with all their family in a couple of years, when they've saved up enough money. They just can't afford it right now. Bob's work visa is due to expire in 6-months, and his employer is concerned they may not be able to get another LMO. They wouldn't qualify as common-law yet, so Bob and Jane decide to have a quiet legal wedding with just a couple of their close friends, so Jane can sponsor Bob for Permanent Residence and they can continue getting on with the life they've chosen together in Canada. They still plan to have the big wedding later on.

Did they get married primarily to gain status under the act? Very arguably, yes. Especially since they're planning their "real" wedding for later.

How will CIC interpret this? I have no idea.

Is this course of action wrong and something CIC should be trying to prevent? You decide.

 

[canadianwoman]

But I think this relationship would still be accepted.
Really, I'd like to see what kinds of relationships would be rejected now that would have been accepted before. Maybe it is mostly going to make it harder to win on appeal, because the sponsor will now have to prove two things, not just one: that the relationship is genuine, and that they didn't marry (or whatever) just to get into Canada.

 

[Janadian]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out on the ground, both in terms of CIC's assessment of relationships, and the inevitable appeals.

The real question is how will CIC officers differentiate between people who are in a genuine relationship, and get married and shortly thereafter apply for PR from those who are in a genuine relationship and got married just so the FN spouse can stay in Canada, or come to Canada.

It's totally unrealistic to think that two people who love each other might not decide to get married in order to be able to live together, if that's what is required by immigration. If CIC starts refusing people in genuine relationships on the grounds that they "only got married for immigration" I think there will be a s**t-storm.

Agreed! This has all the makings of a storm alright.. For both sides of the fence. I have been following this change and speaking to friends of mine both in the immigration business and applicants/sponsors alike. There is definatly going to be a huge response.

Just thinking about the many geniune relationships being refused...and what the appeals division is about to go through. Also I think I might be more comforted if I knew there was some sort of guide line to go along with this change for VO's. How will they make that determination?

 

[Janadian]

All very good points. Hopefully this change will be interpreted with care. Here's to hoping that loving families that deserve to be together, do.. and that those who are clogging our systems with fraudulant marriages..don't.

Time will tell how this will play out.

 

[jerodkillick]

I think it is a very sad day in my opinion. It is already a very difficult and expensive process. With more refusals, it feels like a very hopeless situation and greater error on the governments part. I do not know what I would do if I had to go to apeal. I have no idea where I would get the added months of travel money, application money, and so forth. The government has made a terrible mistake on the front end. It is a better idea to hire more staff and do a better job with screaning for bad applications than to increase the probability of rejecting more good appliants that will move to Canada and be contributors to society. I am both sad, shocked, and speachless...

 

[Yaya Marei]

I do not know what CIC want from us, before we date anyone we should ask them, ohhh Mr CIC Officer do you think this one good for you or not

WTF going on, I am really getting scared not because I am not genuine but because this system become everyday F up sorry for that,

What exactly CiC need we all know there are some countries people thier doing fraud so why you have to put flag in all of us, even if this relationship seems to you have red flag, how you can be sure.

Why they cannot make it as Australia or Uk , give 2 years visa for married couple and see how is there life going on, if they are fraud it will show, if not here you go.

but every day have new things to scare anyone would married from outside,
I think it is too much from CIC to do this, they have to stop this, we are human have normal relationship, we fight as any copule does , we have a lot of good days too, what they need to record every mint in our life to prove for them, or our sex life will be good for them, I am sorry but it just drive me crazy all this

 

[SaugaBoss]

i got married in July 2009 stayed in canada 3 months...USA 1 month... canada 3 months.America 2 months then applied for my PR Application, just needed to gather all proof and waited for taxes etc. i wonder if they will look at this and question it. i guess we were a little on the lazy side but i have been with him since 2007! All kinds of photo passport stamps of visiting etc. i wonder hmm

 

[MD2B]

This is especially tough for people from non visa-exempt countries (but definitely tough on everyone).
It's like a lose lose situation.
They want you to show you are a genuine couple (ie: live together, have contact in person etc), but they wont grant TRVs to people from most countries of the world. So then perhaps they want the Canadians to leave their glorious HST bound country of Canada to live with their partners all over the world.Then apply outland and get schmucked up the bum for being "too settled" outside of Canada, (having to prove they would really settle and come back).
All of this means more couples are apart longer, having more burden of proving their relationship.
ITs a circle where no matter what you do, you can seem to fit what they want.

Im getting the sense immigration will soon be between "trusted countries." Isnt that terrible and shameful.
Canada represents a diverse nation, and it shames me to think of all the hoops we human beings have to go through, to just have a chance to live in our country with the one we love.While other human beings, no better than ourselves, decide our fate.

I agree with a previous poster's idea. Let people come to Canada on a kind of pre-permanent status. Let them have the rights of a PR for a temporary time (like 2 years). Then you go on to apply for PR, and you must still indicate how your relationship is going etc etc. A real and true relationship that is worth immigration and tax payers time should at least be able to hold it together that long.

Something has to change - its all just bs.

 

[Kess]

We are all going to be worried until we start to see the actual effect of this... if anything is going to change at all.

The government has to balance security of the country and the integrity of the immigration system (which has been trying to figure out how to deal with marriage/immigration fraud) but I think with all this there shouldn't be any major increase in denials.

Why? Because Canada NEEDS immigrants... we need taxpayers.

The value of immigration to our society is very high. Our birth-rate is so low that the impact of the aging population is a common discussion in program and tax policy (medical costs, pension, etc).

We're also a country that has a tradition of a very high immigration rate.

If anyone is interested, here is the document from the Library of Parliament on Canada's Immigration Program:

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/bp190-e.htm



**just trying to throw some positive vibes out there**

 

[hoping75]

I think the biggest effect this will have is on the people who contact and get into relationships with someone in Canada that they would never even consider in their country. Those are the ones who will be scrutinized more I'm afraid.
Unfortunately so many people use the system and destroy lives in the process.

I hate to say it , but as much as we suffer going through this process, there are the large number who go after the government to fix their problems after they have been scammed. They protest saying the Government has to do something to protect them from these scammers, and want to get out of their 3 year obligation and have the spouse deported.

I would say the Immigration department is stuck between a rock and a hard place with this situation.
I remember myself praying every night that my husband would be accepted as a man that comes from a country where the men marry younger women by most part, and I am 8 years older than him. Thank God he was accepted, and we were able to start our lives together.

I'm afraid I also have heard of so many people that send out hundreds of Emails on chat sites to anyone hoping to get someone to accept them and sponsor them to Canada, or whichever country they want to immigrate tr they chase after people visiting their country trying to seduce them for this purpose. It doesn't matter to them who they marry as long as they reach their objective.

These are the people who are making it difficult on the genuine relationships.

I really wish the best to everyone going through this difficult process, and that you can happily live your lives with the one you love.

 

[HoneyBird]

thank god i decided to send in additional information....we applied 2 weeks after we got married!
by the time i submit next week i will have four post marital wedded months of evidence!

 

[wes786]

I think the biggest effect this will have is on the people who contact and get into relationships with someone in Canada that they would never even consider in their country. Those are the ones who will be scrutinized more I'm afraid.
Unfortunately so many people use the system and destroy lives in the process.

I hate to say it , but as much as we suffer going through this process, there are the large number who go after the government to fix their problems after they have been scammed. They protest saying the Government has to do something to protect them from these scammers, and want to get out of their 3 year obligation and have the spouse deported.

I would say the Immigration department is stuck between a rock and a hard place with this situation.
I remember myself praying every night that my husband would be accepted as a man that comes from a country where the men marry younger women by most part, and I am 8 years older than him. Thank God he was accepted, and we were able to start our lives together.

I'm afraid I also have heard of so many people that send out hundreds of Emails on chat sites to anyone hoping to get someone to accept them and sponsor them to Canada, or whichever country they want to immigrate tr they chase after people visiting their country trying to seduce them for this purpose. It doesn't matter to them who they marry as long as they reach their objective.

These are the people who are making it difficult on the genuine relationships.

I really wish the best to everyone going through this difficult process, and that you can happily live your lives with the one you love.

Thanks for your kind words! Its just frustrating when you are way from your spouse/family and then you get to hear news like these. If they wanted to implement this rule, it should've been for the new applicants and not the applications in process. After this new rule, I am sure there will be more broken hearts and longer processes, but I really hope that couples in a genuine relationships don't have to pay the price! Fingers crossed!

 

[matthewc]

Everyone needs to calm down until we see how this is implemented. Really, what matters in the end is whether more genuine couples get refused. If that doesn't happen, it's not a problem. Time will tell, and updates to the processing manuals, as they are published, will give us a better idea.

Why they cannot make it as Australia or Uk , give 2 years visa for married couple and see how is there life going on, if they are fraud it will show, if not here you go.

Personally, I think it is a very, very good thing that Canada doesn't go this route, as it does little to prevent outright fraud (those in a fraudulent marriage where both parties know will make up evidence 2 years down the line to get permanent status). It may do something to help reduce sponsors being taken advantage of (those unscrupulous enough to trick someone into falling in love with them may keep up the act long enough to get permanent status)... however what it definitely does is create situations where an immigrant spouse who is being abused can be forced to stay in an abusive situation. Policy that leads to that - in my opinion - is by far a greater evil than policy that allows some fraudulent marriages to slip through the net.

 

[nyssa]

We must be misinterpreting this... or something. Don't all of us, in a way, get married for immigration? I mean, my husband and I always wanted to get married at some point, but we got married sooner to apply for PR. Unfortunately for us, we said that in our letters. I feel sick. I wish CIC would explain a little more...

 

[MD2B]

I agree nyssa. I think when two people come from two different countries, intelligent people will realize that immigration will be a factor at some point if the relationship is to continue. Whether that means immigration of the Canadian to the foreign nationals country, or vice versa.

We too, mentioned that although we certainly did not start our relationship with an intent to come to Canada, when my partner got a TRV (totally unexpected - she's from Central America), it was our only chance to get married. We are a same sex couple and there would be not option for marriage for us down the road in her country. So yeah immigration certainly does have a role....and I think most people can find the role of it in their relationships.

But, I think ( I hope ) it's more for couple's who have "some other reason" to want to stay in Canada.
Like the partner who's work visa is running out. OR who has been trying to get out of their own country (denied TRVs to other countries) and then quickly marries the first Canadian to bite the lure.

I think as long as we all have shown a true relationship progression (instead of an insta-marriage 3 weeks after meeting), common sense should prevail.

:-\