PR - same sex couple

[mirkopal]

Hi all I would like to ask you an info....

i am a permanent resident (it s been 2 ys and a half that I am in Canada and I am a phd researcher) and i have been sponsored by my ex partner who left me after 8 months i arrived in Canada...
right now it s been almost 1 years and 8 month that i have another partner, italian also, who lives in paris....thanks to him and his job (flight attendant) we used to travel a lot from canada to paris (where he lives) to see each other...like 3 flights for only short week ends...all been proved ....i know it could sound crazy but u know it s love...expecially because having the italian passport and canadian permanent residency it s easier for me to go there than him to come to canada..
we discussed the other day and we would like him to immigrate to canada...

CAN I SPONSOR HIM? and how many chances we have if i am a permanent resident as a sponsor?
I dont know if canada has special regards towards same sex couple as we are, we also are planning to have a civil union here in france (could be considered as a plus in Canada?

or if we got a civil union in Canada could be counted, even if nor of us is a canadian citizen?

We have proofs that we love each other (trips to see each other coast to coast, pjhone bills, plus goods that we bought together...)
I also spent some time in Parisduring my holidays in summer where he put me under his med insurance when I am in France...

the fact that same sex couple are not recognized in Italy (our country of birth even if it's been 4 years that he lives in france) could be a positive thing?
lastly questions regarding medical visit

1. if i remember well, does it last for one year, doesn't it? I remember to have sent them all to missisauga on december 2006, with already payment and medical included
2. considering that my partner is a italian citizen living in france, do you think that it could be easier if it will be addressed to the French office in Paris, or the Rome office in Italy? which could be the faster? I remember that the one in rome issued my visa in only 4 months and half...
thanks a lot
thank u for your answer

 

[Leon]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

As a couple, there are 3 categories you can apply under, married, common law or conjugal. If you did the civil union in France, I am sure it would be accepted in Canada because Canada allows gay marriages. That would in my opinion be the best option. For common law you need to have lived together for a year or more so that is out. For conjugal, you need to show that you have no option to live together or get married.

Right now, it's taking Mississauga 36 days to approve sponsor, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/process-in.asp#sponsorship and processing time in Paris and Rome as seen here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/international/05-fc-spouses.asp#europe

If you are getting married in France, it may be better to apply through France because then you don't take any risk of the validity of your marriage being questioned by the Italians. You do still have to send proof of your relationship like you would in any country.

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

Dear Leon
thank you for your answer.
I was supposed to apply as a conjugal partner for the only reason that I applied like that when I did it ( i mean as a conjugal partner u show an obstacle for your relationship to be lived in canada).
about the pacs thing ( i mean civil union) if I undestand your point is going to be a more efficient prove of our relations....

1)concerning my status ( i am a PR who has been sponsored by my ex partner who left me 8 months after I arrived in Canada) could be a problem to sponsor? I mean I have always respected all the procedures and rules in Canada.

2)The fact that I was obliged to leave Canada for 2 months and half in summer to go to Paris in order to be with him, is could be counted as a part of the obstacle to be together into the category of conjugal partner?

concerning times for the application:
3) I remember that when I sent my application (that was pretty fast) i did some useful things that made it faster. For example I sent my application directly to Missisauga and not the Italian VISA Office with included ALREADY the whole payment and medical visit.....after 30 days missisauga sent a letter to me saying that they agreed and send my application to Quebec for the certificat de selection. After 2 months quebec answered positively and in April rome office called me.
do you think i should follow the same path ? If i remember well, sending the meds results right the way help to gain time in this moment of the application
thanks a lot for your answer

 

[Karlshammar]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

I am not completely sure how it works in immigration, but I know that in other legal matters a civil union is not considered the same as marriage.

 

[Leon]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

1)concerning my status ( i am a PR who has been sponsored by my ex partner who left me 8 months after I arrived in Canada) could be a problem to sponsor? I mean I have always respected all the procedures and rules in Canada.

I don't think it will affect your sponsorship. If you had been the sponsor, you would have to wait 3 years before sponsoring again but you were not the sponsor but the sponsored.

2)The fact that I was obliged to leave Canada for 2 months and half in summer to go to Paris in order to be with him, is could be counted as a part of the obstacle to be together into the category of conjugal partner?

You can't actually show that immigration barriers are keeping you apart because as you said, you are Italian and this would allow you to live with your partner either in France or Italy for a year to qualify as common law partners. There is also no reason you couldn't get married, either in France or Canada.

concerning times for the application:
3) I remember that when I sent my application (that was pretty fast) i did some useful things that made it faster. For example I sent my application directly to Missisauga and not the Italian VISA Office with included ALREADY the whole payment and medical visit.....after 30 days missisauga sent a letter to me saying that they agreed and send my application to Quebec for the certificat de selection. After 2 months quebec answered positively and in April rome office called me.
do you think i should follow the same path ? If i remember well, sending the meds results right the way help to gain time in this moment of the application
thanks a lot for your answer

You are supposed to send the application directly to Mississauga and not to Rome so you did the right thing last time. Another thing you can do is call CIC with your questions. Ask them if a French civil union would be considered as good as a marriage to apply as a married couple since it is the only option available to you in France. If not and if your partner doesn't want to come to Canada to get married, you can ask about other countries in Europe that allow gay marriages.

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

civil union in france are not considered as marriage in canada...onlye the ones from belgium nederlands south africa and sweden are recognized in canada...however it sounds that civil union in france are in the same category of conjugal partner.

However Leon, u were right saying that there were not immigration barrier...because i could easily live in europe...but he was willing to mvoe to cnada but he couldn t and i was oblige to take a semester off in order to spend 2 months in france with him

concerning paris office (the one that I have to put in my documents, the office that i would like to see my application after mississauga)...well there s an extra form to fill in, the one with all the trips that the sponsor and sponsored have done....my partner is a flight attendant so having trips by plane is his jobs...i know that we can add pages (blank pages) but in his case it would be a never ending thing...maybe it s better t go into another office? for example rome?
wjhat happened if we, as italian citizens but one of them pr in cnada and aother one living in france, send our application in rome instead than paris?

 

[Leon]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

civil union in france are not considered as marriage in canada...onlye the ones from belgium nederlands south africa and sweden are recognized in canada...however it sounds that civil union in france are in the same category of conjugal partner.

The conjugal partner category is meant for people who are unable to live together or get married. There is nothing stopping you from getting married in Canada. Your partner is from Italy. He doesn't need a visa to come to Canada and get married. Even if he doesn't want to, could you not get married in Belgium or the Netherlands? It's not that far to go from France where he lives. When the IO looks at your application he or she may think that there is nothing preventing these two from getting married so if they wont get married, then they obviously do not have a commitment to each other and do not qualify as conjugal partners. Straight couples who don't want to get married have the same problems. They can apply as conjugal partners, some IO might approve them, some might deny. If you have the option of getting married, it's better. You can also go ahead with your conjugal application and try your luck.

However Leon, u were right saying that there were not immigration barrier...because i could easily live in europe...but he was willing to mvoe to cnada but he couldn t and i was oblige to take a semester off in order to spend 2 months in france with him

Yes, that's not really an immigration barrier keeping you apart. You could live in France for 6 months and then he could go on a visit visa and live in Canada with you for 6 months. Then you would have 12 months combined and could qualify as common law partners. An immigration barrier would be for example if he can't get a visa to go to Canada in the first place and you can't get a visa to go to his home country.

concerning paris office (the one that I have to put in my documents, the office that i would like to see my application after mississauga)...well there s an extra form to fill in, the one with all the trips that the sponsor and sponsored have done....my partner is a flight attendant so having trips by plane is his jobs...i know that we can add pages (blank pages) but in his case it would be a never ending thing...maybe it s better t go into another office? for example rome?
wjhat happened if we, as italian citizens but one of them pr in cnada and aother one living in france, send our application in rome instead than paris?

It doesn't matter where you are from but he has the right to have his application processed either in France or in Italy. He can pick Italy if he wants to.

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

well thanks a lot leon
in this case it seems taht the option common law partner is maybe easier to do it.. i saw that even if we get the civil union in france it is not recognized as a marriage in canada....so that s it...the fact that we lived together for more than 1 year switching from paris to canada i thinjk it is a right thing to do
the only thing i am scared of is:
considering that i got my residency in 2007, and that for my relationship i was obliged to move in france for 6 months, (because i dont need visa even to work there) it is a bad aspect for my record?expecially beause i did not advise canada that i am living in paris since august....

however concerning the decision about conjugal partner...well when my former partner sponsored me the situation was exactly the same
me, living in italy where we can t get married and he s canadian ....he went to live with me in italy for a moment and i went to canada for a while too...we applied as conjugal partners....and we got positive answer in less than 5 months...

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

thanks leon,...
concerning a wedding i dont know what it could change to get married in belgium if i don t live or i am a belgium citizen....i mean being married ina country where basically i have no rights...
at this point is better getting married in canada...but same thing: i am a PR and not a citizen...even getting married there what does will change on my rights??

if i apply as a common law partner whjich are the major differences from conjugal partnes?
i mean we should prove that we live together for 1 year (6 months in montreal 6 months in france) and we have proofs, bills payment together and also procurement signature in each one's bank account (french and canadian)...he also put myself into his charges in his medical insurance card, for the moments that I am in france...
the only thing is that i never advise canada that i was in paris during 4 months...

 

[whoopi83]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

You could marry in Canada....

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

I know that I could marry in Canada
but I am not a canadian citizen ...only a canadian resident...I mean which are the advantages to be married in a country where i am not citizen?
if something happens to me, it s the italian consulate or embassy and not the candian government that it takes into account...
i says that because I worked for italian governments both in canada, usa and italy and i know the procedures...

obviously getting married in canada could be an option and, why not, but i think that it could be pretty obvious for people at the immigration that is a shortcut to have the residency for my partner....and not a 'natural way'-
i m scared that it could be interpretated as made not spontaneously...
i m open to your opinions...

 

[ariell]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

You don't need to be a Canadian citizen to get married in Canada. I'm not sure what you mean by saying it would be obvious to CIC that it is a shortcut to residency and not the 'natural way'. What is the natural way???? You ARE legally entitled to marry in Canada if you wish. I don't see why they would view it as a shortcut. Maybe they would view you applying as conjugal partners as a shortcut -- as though you weren't committed enough to each other to actually marry.

Regarding the Details of Foreign Travel form, everyone has to fill this out. So it will make no difference if you apply through Paris or Rome. You still have to fill it in. Maybe Paris asks for it upfront and Rome will send it to you later, but in any case, you will still have to fill it in, so don't choose a visa office based on this form! I'm really not sure how you fill it in given that he is a flight attendant. On the one hand, maybe it's more correct to simply put the trips that he did for pleasure, not for work. But on the other hand, if he has visa stamps in his passport for different countries, then you will have to account for these I would think, so maybe they want you to put all his trips. I think it's better that you call CIC and ask what you would do in this situation.

There is no problem that you went and lived in Paris for 4 or 6 months. You didn't need to inform anyone. As a PR, you are free to come and go as you please. You just need to make sure to live 2 out of every 5 years in Canada to maintain your PR status. So if you wanted, you could go live in Paris for 1 year with your partner and still maintain your PR status, and meet the requirements for common-law if that's what you decide to do.

As I mentioned in another post, the CIC guidebook indicates that you can apply to sponsor someone as your same s*x spouse if you married in one of the following countries: Canada, Belgium, the Netherlands, South Africa, Spain or the state of Massachusetts. Many people marry in a country where they are not a resident or citizen -- for instance flying to Mexico or Hawaii to marry. So you would have to check what the requirements are if you decided to marry in another country.

 

[Leon]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

however concerning the decision about conjugal partner...well when my former partner sponsored me the situation was exactly the same
me, living in italy where we can t get married and he s canadian ....he went to live with me in italy for a moment and i went to canada for a while too...we applied as conjugal partners....and we got positive answer in less than 5 months...

It's not exactly the same because your sponsor was Canadian and it would not have been feasible for him to try to live with you in Italy to qualify as a common law because as a Canadian, he would not be able to work in Italy, only stay for up to 3 months as a tourist. You, however, are able to live with your partner in France, you are able to work there and stay there because of your EU passport.

I know that I could marry in Canada
but I am not a canadian citizen ...only a canadian resident...I mean which are the advantages to be married in a country where i am not citizen?

Who cares where you get married and if you are a citizen there or not? You marry your partner whom you say you love, isn't that a natural thing? Plus it could help you with immigration but that is only a bonus.

So basically it's up to you. You can apply as conjugal partners, maybe you get lucky with the IO but I am only saying, the IO could decide that you can't be considered as conjugal partners since there is nothing stopping you from getting married or living together for a year.

 

[mirkopal]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

you are right Leon...
well a part that...with my previous partner it s true that he was Canadian but he also had double citizenship (italian) so he can stay in Canada.
I completely agree with you that I can live in france because I have an EU passport, in fact it is what I have partially did (when my time and work permitted, means living in france for 3 months)....but one of the reasons that we want him to go to Canada it is because we want to live together in Canada without having the possibility to love my residency ( i kjnow that it requires 2 years on 5 of residency on the canadian territory).
If we continue like that, with flights back and forth i m gonna loose this opportunity. so let s say that...we are applying as a common law, but can we do it even if at the time of the demand we are not living together?
my partner is working so he will come to canada only at the end of november when jhe s going to take 2 months off at his work...
but we practically lived togehter more than 1 year...or in france or in canada....we also have mail received for each other in both addresses and also signature on each other bank account as a garantee...
is it good to apply as a common law? if yes which other proofs do u need?
Moreover, even if we sent the application as a common law and he s in canada, but as a visitor, for a short time, it is possible for him to send the application from canada (when hje s going to stay for 2 months) ajnd after being out of canada?
thanjks a lot for the answers

 

[Direstrife]

Re: PR - same *censored word* couple

I haven't read the entire thread but let me share what I know..

I am also applying under the conjugal category and as advised by my CCIC who specializes in same-gender immigration, marriage is NOT ESSENTIAL. Spousal, common-law and conjugal applications are all treated equally. CIC cannot require couples to marry if they do not wish to and they cannot refuse your application just because of this. However, if you choose not marry then you must explain why and YOU MUST CONVINCE an IO that you are in a long-term, interdependent relationship. Conjugal relationships are basically COMMON-LAW in ALL aspects but without cohabitation. So if you choose not to get married even if you have the means to do so then this is OK.

There is a stigma now attached to applying under conjugal category because of all the discouraging posts here in the forum. My CCIC admits that conjugal applications are difficult... and by the word "difficult", he is referring to the difficulty of putting up a very good and convincing application package. By the world "difficult" he is referring to the difficulty an IO experiences in evaluating the case. HOWEVER, if you can produce all the evidences, support documents and put up a VERY GOOD application that will make an IO's life easier then there is no reason that should stop you from applying under this category. The word "Difficult" therefore does not mean difficulty in getting an approval but difficulty in proving your case.

Let me also clarify the definition of "Immigration Impediment". This DOES NOT solely refer to the inability of both partners to obtain visitor visas in each other's country. It also applies to the inability to obtain long-stay visas which prevents partners from living continuously for a substantial period of time.

Mirkopal, if you still decide to apply under the conjugal category then below are the things you need to explain and prove in your application:

* At least one year of being in a conjugal relationship prior to filing your application. This is VERY IMPORTANT. Identify a specific date and PROVE IT taking into consideration the elements that make up a conjugal relationship as per OP2.
* What prevents you from living continuously for 1 year. Personal and economic reasons are fine but they have to be VERY compelling and you can prove it. You will have an even stronger case if this is combined with other factors like penal control, fear of persecution, etc.
* If you can marry but you chose not to, EXPLAIN WHY and it has to be convincing.
* Prove that you and your partner are Emotionally, Socially, Physically and Financially Interdependent. In OP2 it is mentioned that not all are required to assess a conjugal relationship but it is VERY IMPORTANT that you have all these. Remember, you are basically applying as "common-law partners" who can't cohabit continuously-- and common-law partners have all these elements.

So regardless you your current situation, if you can neatly put up an application with all the above in mind then by all means go ahead and apply conjugal.