Post Graduate Work Permit and EE

[bambooshka]

It's funny that you only quote and check out clauses from the first two parts of the definition in the Ministerial instructions. Those are for people outside Canada and don't apply to you if you're already working in Canada. The parts that apply to you are the the last two parts (c) and (d) and the only regulation mentioned in these parts is Regulation 203(1) of the Immigration Regulations. Let's check out THAT regulation,


203. (1) On application under Division 2 for a work permit made by a foreign national other than a foreign national referred to in subparagraphs 200(1)(c)(i) to (ii.1), an officer must determine, on the basis of an opinion provided by the Department of Employment and Social Development, of any information provided on the officer's request by the employer making the offer and of any other relevant information, if

(a) the job offer is genuine under subsection 200(5);

(b) the employment of the foreign national is likely to have a neutral or positive effect on the labour market in Canada;

etc. etc. etc. ................................ (goes on to mention what criteria will be considered for a labor market opinion)


In parts (c) and (d) of the ministerial definition, which you conveniently ignore, it says, as I have boldfaced, that your job offer must be supported by an opinion of EDSC issued under this regulation 203(1). This is the LMIA requirement.

So, according to parts (c) and (d) of the Minister's definition, if you're already working in Canada under any work permit (PGWP or otherwise), the only job that will be counted as a "qualifying offer of arranged employment" is a job that has already had an LMIA issued.

I see no ambiguity here. What I do see is you in denial.

Aren't you just full of yourself. Let's just debate without getting personal and pandering "denial" at every other chance you get.

Can you show why the clauses do not apply to people who are already in Canada?

The full paragraph for (c), (d) is:-

(c) an offer of employment, in an occupation listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix, that is made to a foreign national who is working in Canada by the employer listed on their work permit, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer that appears on the list referred to in subsection 209.91(3) of the Regulations, for full-time work in Canada that is non-seasonal and indeterminate, if the work permit was issued on the basis of an opinion referred to in subsection 203(1) of the Regulations that was provided by the Department of Employment and Social Development with respect to the foreign national's employment in that occupation; or
(d) an offer of employment, in a Skill Level B occupation of the National Occupational Classification matrix listed in the categories set out in subsection 87.2(1) of the Regulations, that is made to a foreign national by one or both employers listed on their work permit, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer that appears on the list referred to in subsection 209.91(3) of the Regulations, for continuous full-time work in Canada for a total of at least one year in a skilled trade occupation that is in the same minor group set out in the National Occupational Classification as the occupation specified on their work permit, if the work permit was issued on the basis of an opinion referred to in subsection 203(1) of the Regulations that was provided by the Department of Employment and Social Development.

(c) and (d) clause are applicable to people whose work permits are tied to an employer. PGWP is an open work permit. Only if you are working for the employer listed on the LMIA, does the clause (c) and (d) come into effect, these clauses are to prevent you from doing job hopping and applying for PR. PGWP do not have to satisfy (c) or (d) but only (a) and (b).

203 (1) then comes into effect, if you have a job offer with LMO. They check if you are still with the same employer or not.

203. (1) On application under Division 2 for a work permit made by a foreign national other than a foreign national referred to in subparagraphs 200(1)(c)(i) to (ii.1), an officer must determine, on the basis of an opinion provided by the Department of Employment and Social Development, of any information provided on the officer's request by the employer making the offer and of any other relevant information, if

(a) the job offer is genuine under subsection 200(5);

(b) the employment of the foreign national is likely to have a neutral or positive effect on the labour market in Canada;

Extension of PGWP is subject to LMIA, but not the PGWP itself. Otherwise it just undermines the value and effectiveness of PGWP.

 

[marcus66502]

Aren't you just full of yourself. Let's just debate without getting personal and pandering "denial" at every other chance you get.

Can you show why the clauses do not apply to people who are already in Canada?

The full paragraph for (c), (d) is:-

(c) and (d) clause are applicable to people whose work permits are tied to an employer. PGWP is an open work permit. Only if you are working for the employer listed on the LMIA, does the clause (c) and (d) come into effect, these clauses are to prevent you from doing job hopping and applying for PR. PGWP do not have to satisfy (c) or (d) but only (a) and (b).

203 (1) then comes into effect, if you have a job offer with LMO. They check if you are still with the same employer or not.


Extension of PGWP is subject to LMIA, but not the PGWP itself. Otherwise it just undermines the value and effectiveness of PGWP.

I'm not going to get into this with you. I think you're deluding yourself by believing what you want to believe.

I'm going to enjoy watching this forum a few months from now, when PGWP's who entered the EE pool without LMIA will keep asking each other if they've been invited by CIC to apply yet.

A year will go by and they'll have to enter the Express Entry pool again since their profiles will be deleted after 12 months.

Maybe they'll make some more calls to the CIC Call Centre only to be told the same old tired thing over and over, while no invitation to apply comes in.

It'll be fun to watch you wait forever for something that might never come.

Of course, I already have PR status so that's what makes this even more fun. Keep up the empty hope! ;D

 

[bambooshka]

I'm not going to get into this with you. I think you're deluding yourself by believing what you want to believe.

I'm going to enjoy watching this forum a few months from now, when PGWP's who entered the EE pool without LMIA will keep asking each other if they've been invited by CIC to apply yet.

A year will go by and they'll have to enter the Express Entry pool again since their profiles will be deleted after 12 months.

Maybe they'll make some more calls to the CIC Call Centre only to be told the same old tired thing over and over, while no invitation to apply comes in.

It'll be fun to watch you wait forever for something that might never come.

Of course, I already have PR status so that's what makes this even more fun. Keep up the empty hope! ;D

I am just debating you about the legalese. If you cannot clarify the points that you believe to be true, that is your position to take.

This forum exists for clarifications, and not for morbid curiosity to feed off of other doubts and desperation.

What makes you think you are the only one with PR in this thread?

 

[marcus66502]

I am just debating you about the legalese.

You're not debating. You're just telling yourself what you want to hear. And that's fine! Everyone is entitled to delude themselves.

I've already clarified my points in two posts above. You on the other hand keep making things up from thin air to suit what you want to believe.

I don't see what's to debate. The definition of "qualified offer of arranged employment" is very clear as far as I'm concerned.

You're free to enter the Express Entry pool all you want if it makes you happy, but no 600 points without LMIA for your job. So good luck getting invited to apply.

As far as I can see, anyone without LMIA entering Express Entry will be submitting a profile into a black hole where it will die in 12 months' time.

What makes you think you are the only one with PR in this thread?

I never thought that. I never said that.

What I do think is that you're not the only one is this thread that is in denial and deluding themselves.

 

[bambooshka]

You're not debating. You're just telling yourself what you want to hear. And that's fine! Everyone is entitled to delude themselves.

I've already clarified my points in two posts above. You on the other hand keep making things up from thin air to suit what you want to believe.

I don't see what's to debate. The definition of "qualified offer of arranged employment" is very clear as far as I'm concerned.

You're free to enter the Express Entry pool all you want if it makes you happy, but no 600 points without LMIA for your job. So good luck getting invited to apply.

As far as I can see, anyone without LMIA entering Express Entry will be submitting a profile into a black hole where it will die in 12 months' time.

I never thought that. I never said that.

What I do think is that you're not the only one is this thread that is in denial and deluding themselves.

Well, only one way to know then. I am debating, because I am flexible in my position. I have no dog in this race. I saw something, I asked. You are the one who is shirking away and just casting aspersions now. Why even bother replying if you have no useful contribution to make to the thread? Does your ego hurt that badly?

I am basing my things on the language written in the clauses. I am here for clarification, and not for running into a psychopath like yourself. Denial, delusion should really be reserved for as vitriolic a person as you. You have as good a day as you are, Marcus.

 

[marcus66502]

Well, only one way to know then. I am debating, because I am flexible in my position. I have no dog in this race. I saw something, I asked. You are the one who is shirking away and just casting aspersions now. Why even bother replying if you have no useful contribution to make to the thread? Does your ego hurt that badly?

I am basing my things on the language written in the clauses. I am here for clarification, and not for running into a psychopath like yourself. Denial, delusion should really be reserved for as vitriolic a person as you. You have as good a day as you are, Marcus.

I made some very useful contributions to this thread. They're in my previous posts, where I've proved my point.

There is no contribution to make by continuing to argue with you because you have no argument.

Like I said, you've been making things up out of thin air just to tell yourself what you want to hear. Clearest sign that you really have no arguments: you have resorted to personal attacks and name calling.

I'm not interested in what you have to say. You believe what you want. Go on and put your profile in Express Entry without LMIA, and keep hoping something will come out of the black hole.

If, as you said, there's only one way to know, then you should stop this right here and now.

 

[bambooshka]

I made some very useful contributions to this thread. They're in my previous posts, where I've proved my point.

There is no contribution to make by continuing to argue with you because you have no argument.

Like I said, you've been making things up out of thin air just to tell yourself what you want to hear. Clearest sign that you really have no arguments: you have resorted to personal attacks and name calling.

I'm not interested in what you have to say. You believe what you want. Go on and put your profile in Express Entry without LMIA, and keep hoping something will come out of the black hole.

If, as you said, there's only one way to know, then you should stop this right here and now.

Contributions that I have raised my points against, and then you resorted with your useless agenda. I have an argument and made it clear in the subsequent post, the reply to which was your useless and unhelpful rant.

I am not interested in your evaluation at all.

I am also not bound by whatever you say and hope.

You are not going to achieve anything with this back and forth, you are really unaccomplished to take me on, I say it with utmost confidence. Your only way to claw back is to get back to the debate table, and clarify the point in bold I raised, if you wish to do so. Simple. You started with this meaningless self evaluation and self aggrandizing behavior, while all I am interested in the language in the clauses.

 

[Phil89]

I made some very useful contributions to this thread. They're in my previous posts, where I've proved my point.

There is no contribution to make by continuing to argue with you because you have no argument.

Like I said, you've been making things up out of thin air just to tell yourself what you want to hear. Clearest sign that you really have no arguments: you have resorted to personal attacks and name calling.

I'm not interested in what you have to say. You believe what you want. Go on and put your profile in Express Entry without LMIA, and keep hoping something will come out of the black hole.

If, as you said, there's only one way to know, then you should stop this right here and now.

You are just a piece of s***t buddy and obviously has some mental or personal issues.

 

[marcus66502]

You are just a piece of s***t buddy and obviously has some mental or personal issues.

The only ones with personal issues are those who start insulting others (i.e. posters such as you and bambooshka). I haven't been doing that.

In fact, I'm done with this thread.

I'm not the one who has to submit an Express Entry profile and I'm sure as hell not the one who's in for a rude awakening in the next few months.

Cheerios!

 

[bambooshka]

The only ones with personal issues are those who start insulting others (i.e. posters such as you and bambooshka). I haven't been doing that.

In fact, I'm done with this thread.

I'm not the one who has to submit an Express Entry profile and I'm sure as hell not the one who's in for a rude awakening in the next few months.

Cheerios!

What a cheerful personality you are, sir. I am sure persons who enjoy your company over warm tea and cookies and maybe share festivals with you are plentiful. Christmas cheer to you too, Marcus.

Back to the thread:- Does not only the clause (a) and (b) apply to the PGWP students?

 

[se7en]

bambooshka don't deal with him buddy. I already had discussion with him on other threads but I ignored when I felt he has issues. He has valid points about LMIA but he is over confident and underestimate others.

 

[Baanayaad]

It's funny that you only quote and check out clauses from the first two parts of the definition in the Ministerial instructions. Those are for people outside Canada and don't apply to you if you're already working in Canada. The parts that apply to you are the the last two parts (c) and (d) and the only regulation mentioned in these parts is Regulation 203(1) of the Immigration Regulations. Let's check out THAT regulation,


203. (1) On application under Division 2 for a work permit made by a foreign national other than a foreign national referred to in subparagraphs 200(1)(c)(i) to (ii.1), an officer must determine, on the basis of an opinion provided by the Department of Employment and Social Development, of any information provided on the officer's request by the employer making the offer and of any other relevant information, if

(a) the job offer is genuine under subsection 200(5);

(b) the employment of the foreign national is likely to have a neutral or positive effect on the labour market in Canada;

etc. etc. etc. ................................ (goes on to mention what criteria will be considered for a labor market opinion)


In parts (c) and (d) of the ministerial definition, which you conveniently ignore, it says, as I have boldfaced, that your job offer must be supported by an opinion of EDSC issued under this regulation 203(1). This is the LMIA requirement.

So, according to parts (c) and (d) of the Minister's definition, if you're already working in Canada under any work permit (PGWP or otherwise), the only job that will be counted as a "qualifying offer of arranged employment" is a job that has already had an LMIA issued.

I see no ambiguity here. What I do see is you in denial.

Marcus, you are not in denial in the least. It plainly states that without an LMIA or a Provinicial Nominee Program Nomination, you cannot apply successfully in the Express Program. What Marcus is saying IS TO BE PREPARED and not bury your head in the sand. You have worked and toiled too hard in this country to lose everything because of deliberate ignorance.

 

[Phil89]

Marcus, you are not in denial in the least. It plainly states that without an LMIA or a Provinicial Nominee Nomination, you cannot apply successfully in the Express Program. What Marcus is saying IS TO BE PREPARED and not bury your head in the sand. You have worked and toiled too hard in this country to lose everything because of deliberate ignorance.

Marcus is an arrogant looser who has his PR but is still spending his time in this thread to increase his self-esteem by seeing others struggling and failing. For some people it can take a bit longer to understand how the system works but it doesn't mean that you have to be such an as**le.

 

[Baanayaad]

Marcus is an arrogant looser who has his PR but is still spending his time in this thread to increase his self-esteem by seeing others struggling and failing. For some people it can take a bit longer to understand how the system works but it doesn't mean that you have to be such an as**le.

I saw the part where he was bragging that he already had his PR after I made my post - which was in poor taste Marcus, you, of all people, should know how it feels to be in our position. You have your PR, thank God. Others don't, and theres no need to rub that fact in anybody's face. Personally, if I had my PR, I wouldn't be on this forum.

On the other hand, CIC clearly states that we will either need an LMIA or a PNP nomination to progress in the Express Entry program. The fact that CIC is flip flopping with PGWP holders should not come as a surprise for most of us.

 

[bambooshka]

On the other hand, CIC clearly states that we will either need an LMIA or a PNP nomination to progress in the Express Entry program. The fact that CIC is flip flopping with PGWP holders should not come as a surprise for most of us.

Man, this is what I want clarification on. In the Gazette, where they publish full rules, they state some conditions to be fulfilled. I dug the relevant clauses and tried to find an answer. But no, all I got was hostility.

Marcus is an arrogant looser who has his PR but is still spending his time in this thread to increase his self-esteem by seeing others struggling and failing. For some people it can take a bit longer to understand how the system works but it doesn't mean that you have to be such an as**le.

Exactly, chiding others who are struggling tells you about his loathsome personality. Find out some of his previous replies in other threads, now that he is a PR, he wants to stop all other immigration.