Parent Sponsorship - Pros and Cons

[screech339]

I apologize if my comments came out 'angry'. But I do not appreciate an indirect personal attack.

BTW. I apologize to you if you think that I was making a personal attack to you. That was not my intention. I am merely trying to dispel the illusion that your parents are never leeching the system when they never contributed a single dime their whole lives towards health care before coming to Canada.

Screech339

 

[janpreet]

I understand both the pros and cons or your different viewpoints. The only thing that I feel is that all parents and grandparents shouldn't be lumped together. Many parents are young enough to put in at least 10 years in the workforce, not to mention consulting work afterwards.

Second thing is I wish they would consider the amount of money (savings) that they are bringing into the country. They are not all coming here to solely depend on their children and be completely helpless. They are bringing life savings to be spent in this country, possible invested in businesses etc.

I wish there was a way to meet in the middle when it comes to health care because I do understand people's concerns about being a strain on the system.

Exactly and Thank you

Even though it does not apply in my specific case but I know many peers who send considerable about of money back home.
If we can keep that money in our economy it will help create more jobs and better life-style for everyone here.
Parents do need clothing, food, shelter, entertainment etc. meaning sponsors will pay for these in Canada. Money will not escape Canada.

In my specific case, we will be buying much bigger house. Which means more money will be injected into our economy.

Moreover as Patience09 said, some parents do bring in lot of savings, which gets invested in our society.

Some parents do help in family business. I know Forex Canada targets newly migrated parents with finance background to work from home and do currency trading. At least my dad will definitely be doing that as he has 33 years of banking experience.

So it's better not to club everyone together into one category.

 

[Avadava]

I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a little story I want to share. I know these people personally and have heard this from them. Filipino woman came to Canada on study visa and met a man (he was a PR holder, not Canadian yet). After she finishes her studies they marry and remain in Canada. She sponsored her parents from the Philippines and they both came as PR when they were more than 60 years old. They stayed long enough to get Canadian Citizenship, and after that went back to their home country. They live there now, but with one small difference: they collect old age pension from Canada, without having worked in Canada not even one day.

Bottom line, there are people who take advantage of the system and people who don't. You can't see from an application if they are going to take advantage of the Canadian health care, welfare, etc. It seems unfair to judge everyone the same. The purpose of parents and grandparents sponsorship is intended to reunite families. It's hard to be away from your elderly parents, children or grandchildren. I admire the Canadian government for implementing such a thing (not many countries allow this - Canada might actually be the only one) and keeping the economy under control. This is not something that started 10 years ago, this parent and grandparent sponsorship dates way back.

Sorry for not staying on the OP topic. I personally think most people just want to have family close by. Have you ever been alone for Christmas? It's an awful feeling when the people you love the most can't be there to share your happy moments with you.
But then again, there are people that do it just to take advantage. Which is wrong.

 

[janpreet]

BTW. I apologize to you if you think that I was making a personal attack to you. That was not my intention. I am merely trying to dispel the illusion that your parents are never leeching the system when they never contributed a single dime their whole lives towards health care before coming to Canada.

Screech339

As I said before, We have been contributing on their behalf. That's the reason Canadian government allows them to use that fund.

 

[screech339]

As I said before, We have been contributing on their behalf. That's the reason Canadian government allows them to use that fund.

We just have to agree to disagree. My sponsored spouse is currently not working thus she is being supported medically not by me alone, through taxes but by everyone in Canada. Until she find work and start paying taxes, only then she is contributing to the health care along with everyone else.

Just cause you are paying taxes while your PR parents are not, doesn't mean you are paying for their medical cost alone. You and me and every taxpayer is paying for your parents' medical. You are not paying for your parent's medical alone.

Screech339

 

[sunshinemrc]

I don't want to offend anyone, but I have a little story I want to share. I know these people personally and have heard this from them. Filipino woman came to Canada on study visa and met a man (he was a PR holder, not Canadian yet). After she finishes her studies they marry and remain in Canada. She sponsored her parents from the Philippines and they both came as PR when they were more than 60 years old. They stayed long enough to get Canadian Citizenship, and after that went back to their home country. They live there now, but with one small difference: they collect old age pension from Canada, without having worked in Canada not even one day.

Bottom line, there are people who take advantage of the system and people who don't. You can't see from an application if they are going to take advantage of the Canadian health care, welfare, etc. It seems unfair to judge everyone the same. The purpose of parents and grandparents sponsorship is intended to reunite families. It's hard to be away from your elderly parents, children or grandchildren. I admire the Canadian government for implementing such a thing (not many countries allow this - Canada might actually be the only one) and keeping the economy under control. This is not something that started 10 years ago, this parent and grandparent sponsorship dates way back.

Sorry for not staying on the OP topic. I personally think most people just want to have family close by. Have you ever been alone for Christmas? It's an awful feeling when the people you love the most can't be there to share your happy moments with you.
But then again, there are people that do it just to take advantage. Which is wrong.

They would have had to live here for 20 years before they get OSP abroad.

Am I eligible?

If you are living in Canada, you must:
•be 65 years old or older
•be a Canadian citizen or a legal resident at the time we approve your Old Age Security pension application, and
•have resided in Canada for at least 10 years after turning 18.

If you are living outside Canada, you must:
•be 65 years old or older
•have been a Canadian citizen or a legal resident of Canada on the day before you left Canada, and
•have resided in Canada for at least 20 years after turning 18.

 

[screech339]

I agree that we shouldn't lump all the parents / grandparents together. I have no issues with parents of young age that can still work in Canada. Kudos to them. As long as they can work and pay taxes themselves, all the best. Good for the economy.

But when sponsored parents/grandparents are at an age close to retirement or have no skills to works or come into Canada at an advanced age that they will never work, then they become a factor in putting a drain on the health care system.

Parents and grandparents are not only abusing the system. I have had one case whereby a person was sponsoring his American wife to Canada only to stay long enough for wife to get Canadian citizenship. Once wife gets it, he has every intention of moving back to US. This is done so that the wife can get Canada Health care when medical cost become too expensive in US for himself and wife.

Screech339

 

[Rob_TO]

The only thing that I feel is that all parents and grandparents shouldn't be lumped together. Many parents are young enough to put in at least 10 years in the workforce, not to mention consulting work afterwards.

No not all cases are the same, and there are some unique cases where parents will have long and productive work careers and contribute much to society. However in looking at the program as a whole, you have to take the averages.

Some parents arrive here young enough to work 10 years, but it is very few... not "many". Actual stats show that the average age of someone arriving in Canada under the parents/grandparents program, is 65 years old. Stats also show that over 50% of a person's lifetime use of the healthcare system, occurs after age 65. And again stats show that only 1 in 10 people over age 65 participate in the labour market.

I'm all for the program, but just saying that Canada needs to be smart about it. The parent's sponsorship program is a humanitarian and family reunification tool, and is a real cost to the typical Canadian tax payer as it definitely takes more than just the sponsors to cover all the costs that the parents will use in their lifetime.

 

[janpreet]

We just have to agree to disagree. My sponsored spouse is currently not working thus she is being supported not by me alone, through taxes but by everyone in Canada. Until she find work and start paying taxes, only then she is contributing to the health care along with everyone else.

Just cause you are paying taxes while your PR parents are not, doesn't mean you are paying for their medical cost alone. You and me and every taxpayer is paying for your parents' medical. You are not paying for your parent's medical alone.

Screech339

It is about how much taxes you are paying. Depending on the fact how much you are contributing to the Canadian society you are either eligible to sponsor or you are not.

Why you think they look at three consecutive taxation year? Why not just one year? Why everybody is not eligible to sponsor?
They primarily want to know how much you have contributed.

Majority of people who were able to maintain LICO + 30% from last three years are more likely to continue to keep doing that going forward.

On top of it, Parents will bring their savings and spend money IN Canada. Some will work too. So it is not a bad deal for Canadian Society.

 

[Patience09]

No not all cases are the same, and there are some unique cases where parents will have long and productive work careers and contribute much to society. However in looking at the program as a whole, you have to take the averages.

Some parents arrive here young enough to work 10 years, but it is very few... not "many". Actual stats show that the average age of someone arriving in Canada under the parents/grandparents program, is 65 years old. Stats also show that over 50% of a person's lifetime use of the healthcare system, occurs after age 65. And again stats show that only 1 in 10 people over age 65 participate in the labour market.

I'm all for the program, but just saying that Canada needs to be smart about it. The parent's sponsorship program is a humanitarian and family reunification tool, and is a real cost to the typical Canadian tax payer as it definitely takes more than just the sponsors to cover all the costs that the parents will use in their lifetime.

Definitely valid points here. I guess I'm looking at it through my own situation where my parents are still employed and still have at least 10 more 'employable years' and decent life savings. I'm definitely grateful that Canada does have this program, but it does worry me how it will evolve in the next few years. Probably by the time I qualify to sponsor them, I may no longer be qualified with changing rules.

 

[screech339]

It is about how much taxes you are paying. Depending on the fact how much you are contributing to the Canadian society you are either eligible to sponsor or you are not.

Why you think they look at three consecutive taxation year? Why not just one year? Why not everybody is not eligible to sponsor?
They primarily want to know how much you have contributed.

Majority of people who were able to maintain LICO + 30% from last three years are more likely to continue to keep doing that going forward.

On top of it, Parents will bring their savings and spend money IN Canada. Some will work too. So it is not a bad deal for Canadian Society.

They want 3 years history to show that you have a history of good solid employment. Having a 3 year history shows CIC that you are able to maintain your job steady and not go on EI or quit your job easy. They want a good employment history, no difference from credit history.

One year history doesn't show the whole employment story. You could go on welfare or go on EI while awaiting PR papers.

Due to a long wait for parent sponsorship, your employment can change for the worst while waiting. So not only you must show 3 year history, they also want you to maintain the LICO during the entire PR process until parents become PRs not just the 3 years prior. So if lost your job or your income drop below the LICO at anytime during the PR, you can lose the sponsorship.

Screech339

 

[user828]

In addition, while Supervisa is a great option - some insurance companies don't accept the app ( medical reasons ) even if it would be acceptable in a sponsorship program so those parents to rely on regular visas ( if they don't get rejected in routine med exam for non-super visas ). Also, the rule where 1 family member is medically inadmissible, then the whole family is inadmissible so in a way they accept normally fit people but might eventually use medicals for future issues.

In a nutshell, new requirements + cap + medical criteria makes it tough anyway

 

[Avadava]

They would have had to live here for 20 years before they get OSP abroad.

Am I eligible?

If you are living in Canada, you must:
•be 65 years old or older
•be a Canadian citizen or a legal resident at the time we approve your Old Age Security pension application, and
•have resided in Canada for at least 10 years after turning 18.

If you are living outside Canada, you must:
•be 65 years old or older
•have been a Canadian citizen or a legal resident of Canada on the day before you left Canada, and
•have resided in Canada for at least 20 years after turning 18.

This must be new. When they did it back in '98, they had to be citizens and at least 5 years residence (which they had because they were able to become citizens)that's all. And, officially the mother still resides in Canada (she comes once a year to file taxes), father passed away in 2005.

Please don't try to twist my words and show me that you can google information. The story I wrote is true, why do you feel the need to discredit it?

 

[janpreet]

They want 3 years history to show that you have a history of good solid employment. Having a 3 year history shows CIC that you are able to maintain your job steady and not go on EI or quit your job easy. They want a good employment history, no difference from credit history.

One year history doesn't show the whole employment story. You could go on welfare or go on EI while awaiting PR papers.....

Screech339

Sorry that is not true. In fact CIC do not even ask for your employment verification at all.

They are only interested in NOAs from last three consecutive taxation years.

 

[Rob_TO]

It is about how much taxes you are paying. Depending on the fact how much you are contributing to the Canadian society you are either eligible to sponsor or you are not.

Why you think they look at three consecutive taxation year? Why not just one year? Why everybody is not eligible to sponsor?
They primarily want to know how much you have contributed.

Majority of people who were able to maintain LICO + 30% from last three years are more likely to continue to keep doing that going forward.

On top of it, Parents will bring their savings and spend money IN Canada. Some will work too. So it is not a bad deal for Canadian Society.

Meeting LICO+30% for 3 years does not have anything to do with how much tax you contributed, or somehow showing you have contributed enough in taxes to pay for parents future expenses.

The income rules were put into place solely to ensure that sponsors will be able to support their parents for everything that the government will not pay for, or what is covered under the 20 year sponsor commitment. 3 years income shows job stability, and prevents people from inflating their incomes for temporary time, only to see it reduced after parents arrive. CIC does not want sponsors to be in financial distress after their parents arrive, with the extra money it takes to care for them.