How to ensure your child does not get Canadian citizenship?

[tracker_01]

Actually, a better question for the OP would be this: Are you REALLY trying to accomplish something of a personal nature here or did you start this post just to engage in academic discussion? I'm sorry but I can't help suspecting the latter option.

The OP is not really sharing why he so desperately wants country X's citizenship and that's fine because it's largely irrelevant. I actually looked into citizenship laws for most countries a couple of years back, just out of curiosity and, with minor quirks here and there, they mostly run similar to each other.

The common theme to most countries is that there is no ius soli citizenship (i.e. citizenship just through birth in the country alone), unless this would leave you stateless -- e.g. parents are unknown, or you can establish that you don't inherit either of parents' citizenships.

However, from my research, I don't recall seeing a single case of a country that won't grant citizenship to a child born on its soil to parents who are both citizens of that country as well. I'm fairly certain in this case the child would have an automatic right to citizenship in that birth country, and it's completely irrelevant that he/she also happens to acquire another citizenship at birth. Because of this, I have good reason to suspect the OP is just engaging in academic discussion here, not trying to accomplish anything difficult or complicated.

If I understand the situation correctly (child born in country X to citizens of country X) and if what the OP is saying is true: that country X's authorities have told him they won't grant the child citizenship if he/she also got another citizenship, then I'd tell the OP to dig higher up the chain of command in his country because those 'authorities' either didn't know what they were talking about or think it's ok to just make up their own law at the spur of the moment.

If you don't mind, I will send you personal message to explain my situation. Otherwise people here will veer off the subject. My original question: Is child born abroad to a naturalized Canadian citizen is automatically Canadian, or only has right to Canadian citizenship? If former, then he cannot be sponsored and brought to Canada as PR, if later he could. That is what I'm trying to find out.

Actually, a better question for the OP would be this: Are you REALLY trying to accomplish something of a personal nature here or did you start this post just to engage in academic discussion? I'm sorry but I can't help suspecting the latter option.

Let there be no doubt, this is something that personally affects me. I'm not here to engage in academic discussion, as I have better things to do with my time. Since this issue is important, I'm devoting to it so much time. Thanks.

 

[marcus66502]

The reason I posted here is: I thought there might be some members of the community who had actually done what I'm trying to achieve. If there are such people, please identify as such. Feel free to send me personal message if public discussion is not your thing.

Again, my main objective is to find someone who had actually done (or couldn't do) what I'm trying to do. If there is anyone in this community, please identify as such or send a private message to me.

Thanks.

I hate to break it to you, but I think you're wasting your time. No one's tried what you're suggesting because it's just not possible. Child born in country X to citizens of same country X will be a citizen of country X at birth. Nothing else about the child is relevant to this matter. End of discussion.

But for the sake of academic entertainment, let's just assume that what you're saying is true. That this Country X won't grant citizenship to a child born on its soil if the child also acquires another citizenship at birth. Again, this will only be true if Country X actually finds out that said child has acquired another citizenship at birth. As far as I can tell, they can only find out from YOU if you tell them so. It would stretch credulity to the max to assert that Country X's authorities go on an active hunt to find out what other possible citizenships your child may have automatically acquired at birth.

Country X doesn't have to know about your child's Canadian citizenship. In fact, they don't even have to know about any of your associations with Canada, and you don't have to share anything like that with the authorities. As far as I can tell, you can simply collect the documents required to prove the child's citizenship (i.e. local birth certificate) and that is the end of the matter. Plain and simple.

 

[screech339]

Pre 2009 and Post 2009 Citizenship Acts are identical when it comes to this particular issue. Here is proof (you can compare for yourself online):

Pre 2009 Act: Part I The Right to Citizenship - 3 (1) Subject to this Act, a person is a citizen if (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;

Post 2009 Act: Part I The Right to Citizenship - 3 (1) Subject to this Act, a person is a citizen if (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;

So, they are same word for word. Therefore, those decisions would be applicable today. The only difference in the Post 2009 act is that they added a 1st generation limit under separate section: 3(3) which did not exist in Pre 2009 Act.

Part I The Right to Citizenship - 3 (1) Subject to this Act, a person is a citizen if (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;

Oh look it says "a person IS a citizen if (b)....."

That pretty much says your child is Canadian since the child meets the requirements: born after Feb 14, 1977 and one of his parents was a citizen (that's you).

 

[links18]

However, from my research, I don't recall seeing a single case of a country that won't grant citizenship to a child born on its soil to parents who are both citizens of that country as well. I'm fairly certain in this case the child would have an automatic right to citizenship in that birth country, and it's completely irrelevant that he/she also happens to acquire another citizenship at birth. Because of this, I have good reason to suspect the OP is just engaging in academic discussion here, not trying to accomplish anything difficult or complicated.

If I understand the situation correctly (child born in country X to citizens of country X) and if what the OP is saying is true: that country X's authorities have told him they won't grant the child citizenship if he/she also got another citizenship, then I'd tell the OP to dig higher up the chain of command in his country because those 'authorities' either didn't know what they were talking about or think it's ok to just make up their own law at the spur of the moment.

Agree. OP's country seems to have rather impractical and draconian laws to such an extent that it makes you wonder whether or not whoever he is talking to really understands the law--much like the Canadian immigration lawyers heis talking to who appear to not understand Canadian citizenship law.

In any event, if OP country's laws really are as he says they are--he might try the line of argument he is desperately using here to claim his child wouldn't be Canadian at birth to his home country's authorities and they might buy it and grant citizenship, but what would that accomplish as the child would lose it as soon as it went to Canada as it can't be sponsored as a PR because it would already have Canadian citizenship in the eyes of Canadian law?

 

[screech339]

Agree. OP's country seems to have rather impractical and draconian laws to such an extent that it makes you wonder whether or not whoever he is talking to really understands the law--much like the Canadian immigration lawyers heis talking to who appear to not understand Canadian citizenship law.

In any event, if OP country's laws really are as he says they are--he might try the line of argument he is desperately using here to claim his child wouldn't be Canadian at birth to his home country's authorities and they might buy it and grant citizenship, but what would that accomplish as the child would lose it as soon as it went to Canada as it can't be sponsored as a PR because it would already have Canadian citizenship in the eyes of Canadian law?

If I had child in India a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship, does the child have Indian citizenship since the child was born "Canadian". Indian authorities are going to know my nationality and thus would only issue birth record, but not Indian citizenship.

Just like Country X is going to know OP has Canadian citizenship as well. They are not going to give child citizenship knowing this info.

 

[marcus66502]

In any event, if OP country's laws really are as he says they are--he might try the line of argument he is desperately using here to claim his child wouldn't be Canadian at birth to his home country's authorities and they might buy it and grant citizenship, but what would that accomplish as the child would lose it as soon as it went to Canada as it can't be sponsored as a PR because it would already have Canadian citizenship in the eyes of Canadian law?

As I said before, it's actually much much simpler than that. Country X does not have a way of knowing about the child's Canadian citizenship or for that matter about any of the child's parents' associations with Canada. The OP should simply keep his mouth shut. As far as Country X knows, the child is born in its soil to its own citizens. If this child is not a citizen at birth, then who is?

I get the feeling we're talking about a country whose laws are not properly enforced and/or where the executive officials just make up their own law by the minute depending on how they feel. If this is the case, then the OP has a completely different problem and quite frankly I can't imagine why anyone would be keen on making sure the child has that country's citizenship.

 

[links18]

Just like Country X is going to know OP has Canadian citizenship as well. They are not going to give child citizenship knowing this info.

Why would they necessarily know that? They might, but they might not. Or whoever is on duty that day at the passport office might not care or might be encouraged not to care for a little consideration, or they might just buy the idea the child doesn't have Canadian citizenship until they assert it--even though that is clearly not the case under Canadian law.

 

[links18]

As I said before, it's actually much much simpler than that. Country X does not have a way of knowing about the child's Canadian citizenship or for that matter about any of the child's parents' associations with Canada. The OP should simply keep his mouth shut. As far as Country X knows, the child is born in its soil to its own citizens. If this child is not a citizen at birth, then who is?

Well, they might know OP is Canadian; during the entry inspection they might interrogate him about where he is living and ask if he has Canadian citizenship and that might get noted down somewhere or it might not. Who knows?

I get the feeling we're talking about a country whose laws are not properly enforced and/or where the executive officials just make up their own law by the minute depending on how they feel. If this is the case, then the OP has a completely different problem and quite frankly I can't imagine why anyone would be keen on making sure the child has that country's citizenship.

Agree. And I can't imagine the adult child wanting to renounce Canadian citizenship to deal with this.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

OP, your child will automatically be a Canadian citizen at birth.

If you don't want to believe this, then it seems your only option is to wait until the child is born and submit a sponsorship app. It will then be returned with a letter telling you that your child doesn't qualify to be sponsored because s/he is already a Canadian citizen.

 

[screech339]

OP, your child will automatically be a Canadian citizen at birth.

If you don't want to believe this, then it seems your only option is to wait until the child is born and submit a sponsorship app. It will then be returned with a letter telling you that your child doesn't qualify to be sponsored because s/he is already a Canadian citizen.

Question to ask. If OP tried to sponsor child for PR and Embassy tells OP that child is Canadian, will the Embassy inform Country X authorities that the child is Canadian knowing Country X does not allow dual citizenship? Would the Embassy be aiding and abetting OP of defrauding Country X in allowing child to have Country X citizenship when the child was not suppose to have Country X citizenship in the first place?

 

[links18]

Question to ask. If OP tried to sponsor child for PR and Embassy tells OP that child is Canadian, will the Embassy inform Country X authorities that the child is Canadian knowing Country X does not allow dual citizenship? Would the Embassy be aiding and abetting OP of defrauding Country X in allowing child to have Country X citizenship when the child was not suppose to have Country X citizenship in the first place?

Unlikely. And its even possible that although OP's desperate legal argument would fail in Canadian court, it could actually succeed in the foreign country anyway. It is the foreign country's legal forums that would decide whether or not child was Canadian under their law prohibiting dual citizenship and they could disregard Canadian law altogether if they wanted to. We have no idea what the country is, so we do not know how well it upholds the rule of law, recognizes principles of legal comity, etc.

 

[tracker_01]

Part I The Right to Citizenship - 3 (1) Subject to this Act, a person is a citizen if (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;

Oh look it says "a person IS a citizen if (b)....."

That pretty much says your child is Canadian since the child meets the requirements: born after Feb 14, 1977 and one of his parents was a citizen (that's you).

I'm not debating your point. You are right in the part you quoted. I just want to highlight the text you noted is located under Part I - The right to Citizenship section. That is why I keep saying that the law is this area is tricky. Had there not been "Right to Citizenship" title, I would totally agree with all of you. However, this title is there and court cases I have provided seem to agree with this title. Thanks.

 

[screech339]

Unlikely. And its even possible that although OP's desperate legal argument would fail in Canadian court, it could actually succeed in the foreign country anyway. It is the foreign country's legal forums that would decide whether or not child was Canadian under their law prohibiting dual citizenship and they could disregard Canadian law altogether if they wanted to. We have no idea what the country is, so we do not know how well it upholds the rule of law, recognizes principles of legal comity, etc.

It is unlikely that Country X would not recognize Canadian citizenship law when Canada legally recognized the child is Canadian. If Country X does not want to recognize Canadian citizenship, that's fine but it doesn't change the fact that the child is dual when their law doesn't allow it.

 

[screech339]

I'm not debating your point. You are right in the part you quoted. I just want to highlight the text you noted is located under Part I - The right to Citizenship section. That is why I keep saying that the law is this area is tricky. Had there not been "Right to Citizenship" title, I would totally agree with all of you. However, this title is there and court cases I have provided seem to agree with this title. Thanks.

The point of the wording is that the person has a RIGHT TO CITIZENSHIP. It doesn't say "person have a RIGHT TO APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP". Not the same thing. Completely different scenario.

May I ask a personal question? Why is it so important not to reveal what Country X is? It would make it a lot easier on the rest of us to understand your unique situation.

 

[zardoz]

Fair enough. Can you then explain why in Rabin v. Canada under paragraph {27} where judge stated: "she was not a citizen ... but was eligible to apply for proof of citizenship" You can read full decision here: (go to federal court decisions website and search for Rabin v. Canada)

Applicant's father had a right to citizenship by descent (or was he citizen automatically?). At the time applicant was born, her father could pass on citizenship to 2nd generation, that was permitted by the law at the time. So, had father been automatically citizen, why he couldn't pass on to his child? Since father was not able to pass to the child, means he was not a citizen when child was born. Hence, his citizenship is not automatic, but rather he needed to actively claim his right to a citizenship.

Thanks.

It is clear that you a) misunderstand Rabin and b) misquoted it.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2010/2010fc1094/2010fc1094.html

[27] Paragraph 3(3)(a) thus expressly excludes from citizenship by descent persons born outside Canada if, at the time of their birth or adoption, one of their parents is a Canadian citizen under paragraphs (1)(b), (c.1), (e), (g), or (h) of the Act. The evidence establishes that the applicant’s mother’s situation is covered by paragraph 3(1)(g): she was not a citizen prior to the coming into force of Bill C-37 on April 17, 2009, but was eligible to apply for proof of citizenship under paragraph 3(1)(g) of the Act which she did in May 2009. By virtue of paragraph 3(3)(a), paragraph 3(1)(b) of the Act does not apply to the applicant and, as a result, the limitation of citizenship by descent to the first generation born outside Canada to a Canadian parent rule applies to the applicant.