How to ensure your child does not get Canadian citizenship?

[screech339]

Hi guys. Thanks for response. However, can you read below and let me know if you still think child gets citizenship automatically or just a right to citizenship.

Case 1: CBSA officer had stated that "Records indicate that Mr. Chan is not a Canadian citizen, but he has a right to make an application for citizenship" You can read full Toronto Star article here: (cannot post link, so please google "Toronto man sues Canada Border Services" and click on 1st search result)

Case 2: Rabin v. Canada under paragraph {27} where judge stated: "she was not a citizen prior to the coming into force of Bill C-37 on April 17, 2009, but was eligible to apply for proof of citizenship" You can read full decision here: (go to federal court decisions website and search for Rabin v. Canada)

Therefore, in my opinion, my child born abroad will not be automatically Canadian citizen, but will only have right to claim citizenship.

Any thoughts on this is appreciated.

Thanks.

In both Case 1 and 2. The person does not have any Canadian citizenship, none, in the first place. No rights to citizenship of any kind including by descent. But he has a right to apply for citizenship when he meets citizenship qualifications.

Your child will have citizenship by birth by default so Case 1 and Case 2 does not apply to your child.

 

[screech339]

I don't think you understanding what the OP is trying to do. What the OP is attempting to do is in fact in the best interests of the child (trying to get the child two citizenships rather than just one).

According to OP, the law states that no one born or naturalized is to have dual citizenship after the law is in effect. So where is the best interest of the child when the child will never have dual citizenship. I don't see any best interest to the child if OP renounces his citizenship so child can get Country X citizenship and can't move to Canada since the OP has renounced Canadian citizenship and cannot come back to Canada either. He and the family would have to re-apply for PR for Canada all over again. Once the family moved to Canada as PR, they will all lose Country X citizenship when they get Canadian citizenship again after the new law.

 

[tracker_01]

In both Case 1 and 2. The person does not have any Canadian citizenship, none, in the first place. No rights to citizenship of any kind including by descent. But he has a right to apply for citizenship when he meets citizenship qualifications.

Your child will have citizenship by birth by default so Case 1 and Case 2 does not apply to your child.

Dear screech339. I believe you are mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Case 1 is a child of naturalized citizen born abroad (same as my child would be). So, he has a right to citizenship by descent. However, his father never exercised his son's right to claim Canadian citizenship. According to article, this person is now an adult and exercised his right and applied for citizenship. There should be no problem, in my opinion, for him to obtain his Canadian citizenship and there is no qualifications he has to meet.

Case 2: Applicant's father is 1st generation born abroad, applicant is 2nd generation born abroad. When applicant was born, the citizenship act had no limit on passing citizenship to subsequent generations (i.e. even 2nd generation could get citizenship). The only condition there was is that one of the parents must be citizen when applicant was born. Now, applicant's father had a right to claim citizenship which he didn't exercise. Therefore, when applicant was born, his father was not a Canadian. Hence, applicant is not a Canadian either. His father recently (after applicant's birth) exercised his right and became Canadian. However, it was too late, because applicant was already born.

I believe these 2 cases go to the root of my main question: Is child born abroad automatically citizen or only has right to claim citizenship? This 2 cases, in my opinion, seem to indicate that child has right only (i.e. not automatically citizen). Otherwise, in case 2, the applicant would be citizen as well since his father would have been automatically citizen at birth, well before applicant's birth.

 

[links18]

Child is automatically Canadian at birth. There is no debate at all. Child would not need to register or take any other affirmative act to claim citizenship. They would only need to secure documentary proof of a status they already have.....

 

[neorol]

How can you have both citizenships? Obviously you seem having both

As a non Canadian dad with a little Canadian son, I think you should really think through what you want to do with your baby's citizenship. Are you sure he/she will be happy in the future with the decision you are planning to make in behalf of him/her? Getting Canadian citizenship is a huge benefit. Does it worth at all if you plan to live in Canada anyway? There must be something you don't tell us, otherwise the whole thing doesn't really make much sense. I wish you the best on making the best possible decision for your child.

 

[screech339]

Dear screech339. I believe you are mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Case 1 is a child of naturalized citizen born abroad (same as my child would be). So, he has a right to citizenship by descent. However, his father never exercised his son's right to claim Canadian citizenship. According to article, this person is now an adult and exercised his right and applied for citizenship. There should be no problem, in my opinion, for him to obtain his Canadian citizenship and there is no qualifications he has to meet.

Case 2: Applicant's father is 1st generation born abroad, applicant is 2nd generation born abroad. When applicant was born, the citizenship act had no limit on passing citizenship to subsequent generations (i.e. even 2nd generation could get citizenship). The only condition there was is that one of the parents must be citizen when applicant was born. Now, applicant's father had a right to claim citizenship which he didn't exercise. Therefore, when applicant was born, his father was not a Canadian. Hence, applicant is not a Canadian either. His father recently (after applicant's birth) exercised his right and became Canadian. However, it was too late, because applicant was already born.

I believe these 2 cases go to the root of my main question: Is child born abroad automatically citizen or only has right to claim citizenship? This 2 cases, in my opinion, seem to indicate that child has right only (i.e. not automatically citizen). Otherwise, in case 2, the applicant would be citizen as well since his father would have been automatically citizen at birth, well before applicant's birth.

Case 1: The rule is the child's parents must have Canadian citizenship at time of child's birth. The father was not Canadian at time of birth, thus child has no claim to citizenship. Your child has a Canadian father as time of birth. The child thus has citizenship at birth, whether he/she claimed for it or not.

Case 2: The applicant was born when the father was not registered as Canadian. Thus applicant could not claim any Canadian citizenship. Goes back to rule is that one of the parents must be Canadian at time of birth. The applicant's father was NOT Canadian at time of his birth. Thus lost claim to citizenship by descent. In other words, never had any claim to citizenship. Again this does not apply to your child since you have Canadian citizenship at time of child's birth.

Point is that the rule says in order for child to claim citizenship automatically by descent, the one parent must be Canadian at the time of child's birth.

 

[steaky]

Child is automatically Canadian at birth. There is no debate at all. Child would not need to register or take any other affirmative act to claim citizenship. They would only need to secure documentary proof of a status they already have.....

No, child is not automatically Canadian at birth. He cannot apply Canadian passport using the birth certificate of Country X alone.

 

[screech339]

How can you have both citizenships? Obviously you seem having both

As a non Canadian dad with a little Canadian son, I think you should really think through what you want to do with your baby's citizenship. Are you sure he/she will be happy in the future with the decision you are planning to make in behalf of him/her? Getting Canadian citizenship is a huge benefit. Does it worth at all if you plan to live in Canada anyway? There must be something you don't tell us, otherwise the whole thing doesn't really make much sense. I wish you the best on making the best possible decision for your child.

According to OP, his country allowed those with dual citizenships to keep both citizenships if they had them before the new law (removal of dual citizenship) went into effect. Those born or naturalized after the new law, will not get to keep both.

 

[screech339]

No, child is not automatically Canadian at birth. He cannot apply Canadian passport directly using the birth certificate of Country X.

He can apply at Canadian embassy for passport. Birth certificate is a record of event. Not proof of citizenship of birth. Think about it. Those born in Canada with diplomatic parents will still get Provincial Birth certificate since it is an record of birth. That doesn't mean they are Canadian by birth.

 

[neorol]

According to OP, his country allowed those with dual citizenships to keep both citizenships if they had them before the new law (removal of dual citizenship) went into effect. Those born or naturalized after the new law, will not get to keep both.

Thank you, sorry my browser skipped a whole page of the conversation...

 

[steaky]

Therefore, in my opinion, my child born abroad will not be automatically Canadian citizen, but will only have right to claim citizenship.

I agreed with you.

 

[zardoz]

Dear screech339. I believe you are mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Case 1 is a child of naturalized citizen born abroad (same as my child would be). So, he has a right to citizenship by descent. However, his father never exercised his son's right to claim Canadian citizenship. According to article, this person is now an adult and exercised his right and applied for citizenship. There should be no problem, in my opinion, for him to obtain his Canadian citizenship and there is no qualifications he has to meet.

Case 2: Applicant's father is 1st generation born abroad, applicant is 2nd generation born abroad. When applicant was born, the citizenship act had no limit on passing citizenship to subsequent generations (i.e. even 2nd generation could get citizenship). The only condition there was is that one of the parents must be citizen when applicant was born. Now, applicant's father had a right to claim citizenship which he didn't exercise. Therefore, when applicant was born, his father was not a Canadian. Hence, applicant is not a Canadian either. His father recently (after applicant's birth) exercised his right and became Canadian. However, it was too late, because applicant was already born.

I believe these 2 cases go to the root of my main question: Is child born abroad automatically citizen or only has right to claim citizenship? This 2 cases, in my opinion, seem to indicate that child has right only (i.e. not automatically citizen). Otherwise, in case 2, the applicant would be citizen as well since his father would have been automatically citizen at birth, well before applicant's birth.

Why don't you go to http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/ and answer the questions from the child's perspective? I think that you will reach the statement that

You are probably a Canadian citizen.

Based on the answers you gave us, you are most likely a Canadian citizen.

. Note "ARE"....

Also, to add to this, here is another reference. http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/japan-japon/consular_services_consulaires/citizenship-citoyennete.aspx?lang=eng

Canadian Citizenship — Children Born Abroad

The proof of Canadian citizenship for a Canadian born abroad is a Canadian citizenship certificate. A child born outside Canada to a Canadian parent and meeting certain requirements is a Canadian citizen. However the child will not possess a birth certificate issued by a Canadian governmental authority and for proof of Canadian citizenship, the child will need to obtain a Canadian citizenship certificate. An application must be submitted to obtain this certificate.

 

[links18]

No, child is not automatically Canadian at birth. He cannot apply Canadian passport using the birth certificate of Country X alone.

You are wrong. Child is Canadian the second it emerges from the womb. Whether or not it can get a passport right away is irrelevant. A passport is just a document proving citizenship, it is not citizenship in and of itself. OP could try an argument such as yours on birth country's authorities, maybe they would buy it...

 

[Bs65]

I go back to my original point given I cannot see how even if the the OP does not apply or register the childs citizenship formally that how in effect a citizen can be sponsored to be a PR without renouncing which cannot happen for a minor anyway.

Maybe I missing something but surely the moment the OP fills in the PR sponsorship application as the primary sponsor and father of a child born abroad to a citizen that immigration would likely reject the application as invalid given the child already has residence rights in Canada whether citizenship claimed / registered formally or not.

 

[canadasucks]

Renounce your Canadian citizenship before child birth, resume your Canadian citizenship after child birth.