has anyone been successful sponsoring a younger husband from a different culture

[on-hold]

I think it is important to remember that one reason why the sponsor should bear the burden, is it frees the government from the duty to judge the marriage. I completely agree with the poster above who comments on how this is humiliating -- the government has no standard but what is 'normal'. How many people aren't normal? Very many --- and after living in a controlling culture for many years, I know that there are many people who will do anything to get out of one. Falling in love with an older woman might just be part of the charm, for a man from Tunisia, who is tired of his relatives telling him who he is going to marry. It might seem exotic, or he might just not care. Will the CIC officer listen or care? Maybe, maybe not. They will think about what is 'normal' for a man there. My marriage didn't fit the cultural norm for either America or Thailand, and I'm very glad that I didn't have to demonstrate that it was 'real'.

It would also be interesting, and irritating, for CIC to try and define what the normal Canadian marriage is. I'm certain that it can't be done -- and yet they do it quite easily, for other countries, something I'll warrant a specialist in anthropology would shy away from.

 

[steerpike]

ok, so can someone explain something to me about this whole condition 51 being mentioned? As a sponsored PR, can we not leave Canada for 2 years? I feel like i am mis understanding this argument. I understand being married and living together for 2 years, but not be able to leave canada, go on vacation or visit family just doesn't seem right!

Thanks for any knowledgeable member input.

The wording of condition 51 is purposefully vague. This gives the CIC total control to use it in any way they wish without any regard for standards or fareness. The wording says you must live together with your spouse in a conjugal relationship for 2 years. This wording could be used to go after people who are apart for a month or two. I have no idea if they will use it to do that, but they certainly have the power to do that at their whim.

 

[screech339]

yes signed a contract ..the contract i signed is presuming my husband stays with me for at least 2 ...and if he does not then he maybe deported...that is the contract i signed and i am very happy about that. i see couple of assumptions in your post...1. i can not comprehend what those posts are saying, 2. i am trying already to skip my responsibility to my spouse...lol....i was hoping there would be no such individuals here ...there is enough forums on the net with the sorts of you guys...why not just stay out of my case....if you not able to just simply help a person or answer their questions why are you here?

Actually, the only contract you signed is the 3 year financial obligation. Nowhere in the contract you signed has a 2 year conditional PR attached to it. That is what CIC imposed on. The 3 year contract is basically the same as signing a contract for a 3 year credit card with no limit. You are basically giving a 3 year credit card with no limit to your spouse/common-law in the hope that he/she will never use it. If you don't trust your partner to not use the credit card at all, you basically don't trust sponsoring your common-law/married partner. You can always move to your partner's home country if you don't want the 3 year financial responsibility. You can start the PR sponsorship anytime when you are comfortable and willing to give the 3 year credit card to your partner.

 

[screech339]

ok, so can someone explain something to me about this whole condition 51 being mentioned? As a sponsored PR, can we not leave Canada for 2 years? I feel like i am mis understanding this argument. I understand being married and living together for 2 years, but not be able to leave canada, go on vacation or visit family just doesn't seem right!

Thanks for any knowledgeable member input.

You can leave Canada for 2 years so long as you are living together, that is the key condition. "LIVING TOGETHER". You cannot have 2 difference residences, in other words, you cannot live apart for 2 years during the conditional PR. You can go on vacation 2-3 weeks alone since your main residence is Canada and it is a temporary absence apart. You however cannot move back to your home country and reside there where your spouse lives in Canada or elsewhere, even within Canada. You cannot have two difference addresses in Canada which implies living apart, not living together. Remember vacation does not affect your PR conditional clause since it is implied that you left temporary with the intention of returning to reside. It is a vacation after all.

 

[screech339]

2. i am trying already to skip my responsibility to my spouse...lol

I never said you were trying to skip your responsibilities. When I say "you" in my previous post, it was not directly at you. I should have use better choice of word other than "you". I apologize for that. It was meant to make a point that not everyone want to skip their responsibilities, but there are some that when it didn't turn out the way they expect, they want to skip out on their responsibilities. It is called being accountable to your actions and decisions.

 

[soblue3]

sure for 3 years but if he decides to leave within 2 years for no good reason then he can be deported. also he signed to try make every reasonable effort to provide for his own needs. and you sounding here like people trying to get out of being responsible ...which is not the case..by all means i will be responsible if all goes well...but the point is if a person turns out to be a lier ...not talking about my husband here....and decides to just leave the sponsor right after arrival ....nobody should have to support him. and again you assuming i have problem with sponsoring him? or am not ready for it? when you refer to somebodys post like i am doing here and saying you then you addressing that person. the point is really you dont know nothing about my case only what i disclosed here which is that i am sponsoring a guy from that country who is younger than me and few things about our interests. nowhere have i indicated that i dont want to be responsible for my husband...only after your harsh post have i responded yes people who leave the relationship shortly after arrival should be deported.

 

[screech339]

I was hoping there would be no such individuals here ...there is enough forums on the net with the sorts of you guys...

May I ask what sort of guy do you think am I? I like to know. I am a well respected person and I give some advices to those who wants it. Sometimes I give the reasons why things are the way they are, for example: Why 2 year conditional PR came about (to battle marriage fraud). Or why one person must sign a 3 year contract (to alleviate taxpayers paying for partner's welfare).

Some people don't like being told or reminded of the facts or realities of the situation they have brought themselves into under which they made their decisions out of their own free will. No government or anyone forces them to sponsor their spouse or partner to force them to stay or move to Canada. When one person decides to sponsor another and sign their name on the dotted line, they have accepted the conditions that comes with PR sponsorship in full, not to cherry pick part of the conditions to suit them, after the fact, when things doesn't turn out the way they thought.

 

[soblue3]

yes i fully realize what some people do. but it does not apply to me. actually i am glad the 2 year provision is not clearly stated in the forms so that those who had other motives than immigrating here to be with their spouse (spousal sponsorship cases) are not aware and if their plan is to leave right after arrival then there is some kind of law to protect the sponsors

 

[Rob_TO]

People need to recall the reason that condition 51 was implemented. It is to prevent cases of blatant fraud, of which there are basically 2 kinds:
1. A foreigner dupes a Canadian citizen into marrying them. We see this all the time in the news when a couple gets their PR approved, and shortly after the PR takes off never to be seen again. It can be easy for an applicant to fake a relationship while it's long distance. However when living with someone for 2 years, it is much harder to fake your real feelings. Condition 51 makes it impossible for newly landed PRs to simply take off on their spouse, and if they hope to fake it for another 2 years until they get full PR, it gives a chance for the sponsor to learn the true intentions of their spouse during those 2 years, and report them to CIC.

2. A Canadian and foreigner enter into a financial contact to marry for PR purposes, after which they will amicably split up and go their separate ways. I've read cases where sponsor's are paid in excess of $20K by a foreigner's family to marry, sponsor for PR, and then split up. In this case, neither the sponsor or applicant wants to actually live with each other since they are not a real couple and want to lead their own lives. So if they actually are not cohabiting during 2 year conditional period, nobody will be reporting it to CIC since the sponsor is a participant in the fraud. So with condition 51, if CIC learns the couple is not cohabiting through other means (through CBSA, them filling taxes etc) they are able to then open up their own investigation.

Condition 51 is not perfect, but I think it's a pretty good rule that effectively can help detect both kinds of PR fraud or prevent them from happening in the first place. Yes it does make things a bit more inconvenient for the genuine couple who has a good reason to live apart for a while (due to school or work), but hopefully even if a genuine couple is investigated for not cohabiting it can be determined that they were not a fraudulent couple so wouldn't lose PR status. And for a couple whos relationship naturally breaks down due to other reasons during the 2 years conditional period, many will argue that if someone gains PR via spousal sponsorship, then if they no longer have a spouse in Canada there is no reason for them not to return to their home country.

 

[screech339]

sure for 3 years but if he decides to leave within 2 years for no good reason then he can be deported. also he signed to try make every reasonable effort to provide for his own needs. and you sounding here like people trying to get out of being responsible ...which is not the case..by all means i will be responsible if all goes well...but the point is if a person turns out to be a lier ...not talking about my husband here....and decides to just leave the sponsor right after arrival ....nobody should have to support him. and again you assuming i have problem with sponsoring him? or am not ready for it? when you refer to somebodys post like i am doing here and saying you then you addressing that person. the point is really you dont know nothing about my case only what i disclosed here which is that i am sponsoring a guy from that country who is younger than me and few things about our interests. nowhere have i indicated that i dont want to be responsible for my husband...only after your harsh post have i responded yes people who leave the relationship shortly after arrival should be deported.

Of course I know nothing about your case, and it is none of my business. May I ask which post you found as harsh. I would apologize to you if you felt hurt. Again it was not directly at you. The age difference is only part of the equation that CIC may use to help them determine if it is a marriage of convenience or genuine which was part of your original post. I agree that no one should support the person who left the marriage/common law shortly after landing. But the issue is that when one person sign a contract, you cannot cherry pick the contract because it didn't turn out that you wanted to. This is suppose to force the sponsor to really look into the relationship to determine whether the relationship is real or not. That is not the government's responsibility. So by signing a contract, it alleviate part of the government's (taxpayers) burden and put the onus on the sponsor to make a responsible and important decision.

 

[soblue3]

People need to recall the reason that condition 51 was implemented. It is to prevent cases of blatant fraud, of which there are basically 2 kinds:
1. A foreigner dupes a Canadian citizen into marrying them. We see this all the time in the news when a couple gets their PR approved, and shortly after the PR takes off never to be seen again. It can be easy for an applicant to fake a relationship while it's long distance. However when living with someone for 2 years, it is much harder to fake your real feelings. Condition 51 makes it impossible for newly landed PRs to simply take off on their spouse, and if they hope to fake it for another 2 years until they get full PR, it gives a chance for the sponsor to learn the true intentions of their spouse during those 2 years, and report them to CIC.

2. A Canadian and foreigner enter into a financial contact to marry for PR purposes, after which they will amicably split up and go their separate ways. I've read cases where sponsor's are paid in excess of $20K by a foreigner's family to marry, sponsor for PR, and then split up. In this case, neither the sponsor or applicant wants to actually live with each other since they are not a real couple and want to lead their own lives. So if they actually are not cohabiting during 2 year conditional period, nobody will be reporting it to CIC since the sponsor is a participant in the fraud. So with condition 51, if CIC learns the couple is not cohabiting through other means (through CBSA, them filling taxes etc) they are able to then open up their own investigation.

Condition 51 is not perfect, but I think it's a pretty good rule that effectively can help detect both kinds of PR fraud or prevent them from happening in the first place. Yes it does make things a bit more inconvenient for the genuine couple who has a good reason to live apart for a while (due to school or work), but hopefully even if a genuine couple is investigated for not cohabiting it can be determined that they were not a fraudulent couple so wouldn't lose PR status. And for a couple whos relationship naturally breaks down due to other reasons during the 2 years conditional period, many will argue that if someone gains PR via spousal sponsorship, then if they no longer have a spouse in Canada there is no reason for them not to return to their home country.

i agree with you

 

[soblue3]

Of course I know nothing about your case, and it is none of my business. May I ask which post you found as harsh. I would apologize to you if you felt hurt. Again it was not directly at you. The age difference is only part of the equation that CIC may use to help them determine if it is a marriage of convenience or genuine which was part of your original post. I agree that no one should support the person who left the marriage/common law shortly after landing. But the issue is that when one person sign a contract, you cannot cherry pick the contract because it didn't turn out that you wanted to. This is suppose to force the sponsor to really look into the relationship to determine whether the relationship is real or not. That is not the government's responsibility. So by signing a contract, it alleviate part of the government's (taxpayers) burden and put the onus on the sponsor to make a responsible and important decision.

its ok you dont have to apologize i am just referring to the posts where you addressed me saying that if people are not ready to sponsor their spouses and be fully responsible for them because they implied that i was not ready to be responsible for my husband and that i should be responsible even if he turns out to be a fraud...(i am pretty sure he wont) 2 years is not a short time and it was not a rash decision for me to marry him or sponsor him.

 

[scylla]

soblue3 -

Here's the deal. What any of us there think or don't think about your relationship is not material. All that matters is CIC's view of your relationship and application. What else matters is what you can do to prepare in the event your husband is called for an interview or you are asked to provide more information about your relationship.

You have several "red flags" (as we refer to them on this forum) in your application. Red flags are characteristics about your relationship that may cause CIC to believe the relationship is not genuine. (To be clear, this is not me judging - just trying to explain how applications are viewed from CIC's perspective. I had at least one red flag myself.) While this is not universally true, the pattern that we generally see is the more red flags, the higher the chance of an interview due to CIC's concerns about the relationship. Hopefully you called out any red flags in your application's relatioship write-up and explained why they were not relevant / not an issue between you (e.g. "while there is a significant age gap between us, what makes us very similar is..."). Note that in your case they won't be worried that your intentions aren't genuine. If they call an interview, it's your husband's motives they will be questioning. So he is the one who really needs to be prepared and be ready to answer questions about your relationship. Sometimes men from certain cultures aren't very comfortable with these types of discussions with strangers (actually, most men probably aren't). He should get comfortable. Because looking uncomfortable and uncertain in an interview could send the wrong message about his intentions with regards to you. These would be good things to start discussing with him now.

If you search this forum for "interview questions", you'll find many places where long lists have been posted of the types of questions asked in these interviews. If an interview happens, you should be provided with plenty of notice. However I think it would be wise for you to start slowly preparing now or at least knowing where you can find this information if you end up needing it.

You should also continue to collect evidence that shows your relationship is genuine and ongoing. I kept a box in my bedroom closet after my husband's application was submitted and tossed relevant stuff into it while his application was in process as a "just in case" measure. Sometimes these were airline tickets, sometimes printed emails that I thought were especially good, etc. I didn't end up needing this information. But I think it's much easier to gather additional things gradually rather than waiting until you need them.

Anyway - those are my suggestions so that you are well prepared for whatever happens. Hopefully you'll said through without having to go through the interview process. Good luck.

 

[soblue3]

soblue3 -

Here's the deal. What any of us there think or don't think about your relationship is not material. All that matters is CIC's view of your relationship and application. What else matters is what you can do to prepare in the event your husband is called for an interview or you are asked to provide more information about your relationship.

You have several "red flags" (as we refer to them on this forum) in your application. Red flags are characteristics about your relationship that may cause CIC to believe the relationship is not genuine. (To be clear, this is not me judging - just trying to explain how applications are viewed from CIC's perspective. I had at least one red flag myself.) While this is not universally true, the pattern that we generally see is the more red flags, the higher the chance of an interview due to CIC's concerns about the relationship. Hopefully you called out any red flags in your application's relatioship write-up and explained why they were not relevant / not an issue between you (e.g. "while there is a significant age gap between us, what makes us very similar is..."). Note that in your case they won't be worried that your intentions aren't genuine. If they call an interview, it's your husband's motives they will be questioning. So he is the one who really needs to be prepared and be ready to answer questions about your relationship. Sometimes men from certain cultures aren't very comfortable with these types of discussions with strangers (actually, most men probably aren't). He should get comfortable. Because looking uncomfortable and uncertain in an interview could send the wrong message about his intentions with regards to you. These would be good things to start discussing with him now.

If you search this forum for "interview questions", you'll find many places where long lists have been posted of the types of questions asked in these interviews. If an interview happens, you should be provided with plenty of notice. However I think it would be wise for you to start slowly preparing now or at least knowing where you can find this information if you end up needing it.

You should also continue to collect evidence that shows your relationship is genuine and ongoing. I kept a box in my bedroom closet after my husband's application was submitted and tossed relevant stuff into it while his application was in process as a "just in case" measure. Sometimes these were airline tickets, sometimes printed emails that I thought were especially good, etc. I didn't end up needing this information. But I think it's much easier to gather additional things gradually rather than waiting until you need them.

Anyway - those are my suggestions so that you are well prepared for whatever happens. Hopefully you'll said through without having to go through the interview process. Good luck.

thank you very much scylla, i have copied the interview questions and we have already been talking about them. all of our communication is saved online ...the question is if he gets called for an interview and if i want to send this stuff to them ...can i send it to immigration directly or send it to him first so he can take it with him to the interview?

 

[soblue3]

one thing that bothers me about this whole thing is. since the beginning our relationship was very spontaneous. we were committed to each other from the beginning ..somehow we have developed emotional dependence relatively fast. now i can not imagine not talking to him daily. but all the screenshots i took were not for the immigration but for me because i thought he was just so cute...lol. and all the talks are automatically saved on facebook or computer by skype. but now since i started filling his application it became kind of weird...its like oh all of this can be "used" for the proof for somebody. really its a feeling i dont like lol.