Foreign Service - Strike?

[costaudjoe]

No I am a concerned Canadian who is badly affected by the greed of union and stubbornness of the government .. But Seems like u are from this union with no sponsorship timeline, nothing to lose ..just here to justify this stupid pafso strike?

You surely have the mental capacity to click on my post history and see that I have been around longer than the threat of the strike. And more importantly see that only a handful of my posts pertain to defending the PAFSO point of view. As for my timeline, I can't be bothered to post it.

Now, if you want to talk about stupid, look at a government position of refusing to pony up $4.2 million (peanuts in the scheme of things) which is resulting in a loss of $1 BILLION. You cannot be more stupid if you tried. Any businessperson will tell you that it is pure idiocy to turn down an opportunity that has a cost benefit ratio of 25 to 1. The current government could even be smart about it and use the opportunity to increase user fees (you know user pay? most true fiscal Conservative governments are more than familiar with the concept). The user fees could easily offset PAFSO demands and even build a cushion in preparation for inflation down the road. All the while having little impact on your precious little taxes.

At the risk of repeating myself, it is Team stupid in action.

 

[DaveSav]

Now, if you want to talk about stupid, look at a government position of refusing to pony up $4.2 million (peanuts in the scheme of things) which is resulting in a loss of $1 BILLION. You cannot be more stupid if you tried. Any businessperson will tell you that it is pure idiocy to turn down an opportunity that has a cost benefit ratio of 25 to 1. The current government could even be smart about it and use the opportunity to increase user fees (you know user pay? most true fiscal Conservative governments are more than familiar with the concept). The user fees could easily offset PAFSO demands and even build a cushion in preparation for inflation down the road. All the while having little impact on your precious little taxes.

At the risk of repeating myself, it is Team stupid in action.

They could call it an essential service (I think it should be anyway, keeping families apart shouldn't be a bargaining chip), shut down the strike and still put in user fees and even be further ahead.

Can't disagree with you calling them team stupid though.....

 

[PMM]

Hi

They could call it an essential service (I think it should be anyway, keeping families apart shouldn't be a bargaining chip), shut down the strike and still put in user fees and even be further ahead.

Can't disagree with you calling them team stupid though.....

Actually Treasury Board and the Union negotiate essential services levels before any strike action. About 25% of the members were designated as essential.

 

[scos]

I suppose you would be much happier if everyone was paid by the standards in India? Worked under Indian conditions?

If you are doing the same work as someone else and getting paid less for it it is not "greedy" to expect to be treated fairly by receiving the same pay for the same work.

Exactly. It's basically "let's turn Canada into India". I have a hard time understanding this concept. Someone leaves their home country to come to another country, presumably because they like the conditions in the new country better. Then as soon as they land they try turning the new country into their old country!

I prefer to live in Canada thank you. And as I remember, Canadian citizens have (or at least had) a long history of struggles against the government for better living standards, pay equity, universal health care and more. And I personally never want that to change.

 

[DaveSav]

I prefer to live in Canada thank you. And as I remember, Canadian citizens have (or at least had) a long history of struggles against the government for better living standards, pay equity, universal health care and more. And I personally never want that to change.

Me neither but unfortunately a lot of services like medical and schooling are going downhill fast due to lack of funding. With 29000 government jobs being cut in the next 3 years we will see much more drastic declines in the things we take for granted as Canadians.

We have to "pay the piper" eventually.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

My problem isn't so much with unions, they have done a lot for general workers rights over the years, my problem is with the larger picture.

At the same time, budgets are being cut everywhere, my Mom has to wait months longer than she should have to for cancer treatment due to all the cuts in medical services. Schools in BC are getting such large class sizes due to all the cuts that kids aren't getting the education they deserve. 29,000 government jobs will be cut by 2016, these people are losing their jobs, never mind equal pay. I could go on and on but i think you get the point.

My opinion is they should get equal pay, they should bring everyone's salary down to reflect all the other cuts that are affecting everything. Not that it would ever happen but this should start at the top with the biggest salaries IMO.

Canada's current debt: 614,475,728,993.45
Debt per Canadian: $18,000

You do realize that the global financial crisis had little impact on our domestic market. Housing continues to climb across the country at a moderate rate. Its a red herring the government has dished out that due to the current global financial meltdown that all government services and wages should be reduced to minimum wage. Canada's economy remains strong and growing despite the damage done to others.

The income of the average worker has not increased over that last 40 years. Wages value weakens every year when they do not even grow with inflation. Though the income of the most wealthy people has increased by 40%. The middle class is declining rapidly and with more and more people having to go to banks to feed and cloth themselves the future looks bleak for the individual. Your children will be making minimum wages at most jobs with no benefits and no prospects.

 

[DaveSav]

You do realize that the global financial crisis had little impact on our domestic market. Housing continues to climb across the country at a moderate rate. Its a red herring the government has dished out that due to the current global financial meltdown that all government services and wages should be reduced to minimum wage. Canada's economy remains strong and growing despite the damage done to others.

The income of the average worker has not increased over that last 40 years. Wages value weakens every year when they do not even grow with inflation. Though the income of the most wealthy people has increased by 40%. The middle class is declining rapidly and with more and more people having to go to banks to feed and cloth themselves the future looks bleak for the individual. Your children will be making minimum wages at most jobs with no benefits and no prospects.

I'm a little confused about your response, I didn't mention anything about the global financial crisis nor did i say anywhere that those workers should be working at minimum wage, not sure why that's even part of the conversation except to take it to an extreme that isn't warranted. The decline in services has been happening a long time prior to the financial crisis under multiple governments not just Harper. Just try to see a doctor in Vancouver, it's not easy. If you get cancer be prepared to go through wait times that will put your life in jeopardy. Class sizes? They've been growing for over a decade now, reducing the quality of education.

Whether they get a little more money or not isn't going to fix the wealth gap and government workers wages on average make 25 to 30% more than those in the private sector, it's the private sector's lack of sharing the benefits with it's employees and creating a larger income gap that is the problem, not the public sector.

You have my full agreement that there is a wealth gap problem in this country, but i don't think it has anything to do with this particular conversation.

The country may be doing good, but it's also on borrowed money. We have a very large debt that can't grow forever.

In the end these wages are hardly a big deal it's an extremely small piece of the pie that won't tip anything either way. I'm just very frustrated to always see services getting cut while people want more money, politicians want their pet projects that don't mean anything. Watching the liberals get into power in BC and instantly try to get a wage increase makes me sick.

My anger is probably misplaced, but **** i'm tired of seeing hospitals closed down and schools getting less funding so you can take what i say with a grain of salt. I am self aware that my anger is misplaced and perfectly happy with that!

 

[scos]

I'm a little confused about your response, I didn't mention anything about the global financial crisis nor did i say anywhere that those workers should be working at minimum wage, not sure why that's even part of the conversation except to take it to an extreme that isn't warranted. The decline in services has been happening a long time prior to the financial crisis under multiple governments not just Harper. Just try to see a doctor in Vancouver, it's not easy. If you get cancer be prepared to go through wait times that will put your life in jeopardy. Class sizes? They've been growing for over a decade now, reducing the quality of education.

Whether they get a little more money or not isn't going to fix the wealth gap and government workers wages on average make 25 to 30% more than those in the private sector, it's the private sector's lack of sharing the benefits with it's employees and creating a larger income gap that is the problem, not the public sector.

You have my full agreement that there is a wealth gap problem in this country, but i don't think it has anything to do with this particular conversation.

The country may be doing good, but it's also on borrowed money. We have a very large debt that can't grow forever.

In the end these wages are hardly a big deal it's an extremely small piece of the pie that won't tip anything either way. I'm just very frustrated to always see services getting cut while people want more money, politicians want their pet projects that don't mean anything. Watching the liberals get into power in BC and instantly try to get a wage increase makes me sick.

My anger is probably misplaced, but **** i'm tired of seeing hospitals closed down and schools getting less funding so you can take what i say with a grain of salt. I am self aware that my anger is misplaced and perfectly happy with that!

But why imply that wages are the problem? Wages have been stagnant for decades while executive pay and compensation has gone through the roof, corporate profits are at an all time high and the system guarantees that the richest in society will continue to get richer. Services are cut not because wages are too high. They are cut to provide for more corporate tax breaks or in the case of health care to make a case for private health care a la USA. Every time wait times go up you hear the calls for more private services because the public system "can't cope". And throughout it all they play one group against another, union vs non-union, private sector vs public sector with the general message being we are all making too much (except the rich of course).

 

[DaveSav]

But why imply that wages are the problem? Wages have been stagnant for decades while executive pay and compensation has gone through the roof, corporate profits are at an all time high and the system guarantees that the richest in society will continue to get richer. Services are cut not because wages are too high. They are cut to provide for more corporate tax breaks or in the case of health care to make a case for private health care a la USA. Every time wait times go up you hear the calls for more private services because the public system "can't cope". And throughout it all they play one group against another, union vs non-union, private sector vs public sector with the general message being we are all making too much (except the rich of course).

The average wage of PAFSO workers is 82000 + living expenses + pension. The average wage of a CDN worker is 46000 . They don't really fall into the our wages are too low category in my opinion, yours may differ but 82000 sounds like a decent wage to me.

I don't think they are making too much, but I also don't think they really need a raise. They do significantly better than your average Canadian with pretty nice pensions as an added bonus. I think that's a comfortable salary.

I agree with your points about corporate problems, rich getting richer, etc.. The private sector is underpaid at lower and mid levels and they should be brought up to something much closer to what you see in public service for pay levels....... I don't feel like an 82000 a year salary plus a pension puts you in the underpaid class. That being said I would agree with pay increases or large bonuses for workers in 'danger' zones.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

The average wage of PAFSO workers is 82000 + living expenses + pension. The average wage of a CDN worker is 46000 . They don't really fall into the our wages are too low category in my opinion, yours may differ but 82000 sounds like a decent wage to me.

I don't think they are making too much, but I also don't think they really need a raise. They do significantly better than your average Canadian with pretty nice pensions as an added bonus. I think that's a comfortable salary.

I agree with your points about corporate problems, rich getting richer, etc.. The private sector is underpaid at lower and mid levels and they should be brought up to something much closer to what you see in public service for pay levels....... I don't feel like an 82000 a year salary plus a pension puts you in the underpaid class. That being said I would agree with pay increases or large bonuses for workers in 'danger' zones.

Those average wages of PAFSO you are referring to includes upper management. The average wages for FSW's is between $45000 to $55000. They work/live in conditions that are not quite first world. Spouses cannot work and kids if they have any may get a substandard education.
This is pay equity not a raise.

 

[yukon1970]

Those average wages of PAFSO you are referring to includes upper management. The average wages for FSW's is between $45000 to $55000. They work/live in conditions that are not quite first world. Spouses cannot work and kids if they have any may get a substandard education.
This is pay equity not a raise.

45-55000??? really? not according to the http://www.pafso-apase.com/ .... they make dam good wages in my books

Payroll and Mean Salary
As of December 31, 2010
Level Number of Employees Mean Payroll
FS-01 216 $60,134 $12,989,022
FS-02 438 $75,542 $33,087,286
FS-03 558 $97,501 $54,405,516
FS-04 173 $110,103 $19,047,759
Sub-total 1,385 $86,303 $119,529,583
Salary Protected
FS-01 2 $65,934 $131,868
FS-02 1 $86,697 $86,697
Sub-Total 3 $72,855 $218,565
Weighted
Average 1,388 $86,274 $119,748,148

FS Classification
FS-01 Desk Officer
FS-02 Senior Desk Officer
FS-03 Deputy Director or Legal Specialist
FS-04 Senior Advisor

 

[scos]

45-55000??? really? not according to the http://www.pafso-apase.com/ .... they make dam good wages in my books

Payroll and Mean Salary
As of December 31, 2010
Level Number of Employees Mean Payroll
FS-01 216 $60,134 $12,989,022
FS-02 438 $75,542 $33,087,286
FS-03 558 $97,501 $54,405,516
FS-04 173 $110,103 $19,047,759
Sub-total 1,385 $86,303 $119,529,583
Salary Protected
FS-01 2 $65,934 $131,868
FS-02 1 $86,697 $86,697
Sub-Total 3 $72,855 $218,565
Weighted
Average 1,388 $86,274 $119,748,148

FS Classification
FS-01 Desk Officer
FS-02 Senior Desk Officer
FS-03 Deputy Director or Legal Specialist
FS-04 Senior Advisor

Good wages for what? If the person is flipping burgers then yeah it is unreasonably good pay! But these are skilled positions. And of course the higher end of the pay scales are for longer service and higher level job titles. These numbers aren't unreasonable. These people aren't clerks and mail room staff you know.

 

[costaudjoe]

The average wage of PAFSO workers is 82000 + living expenses + pension. The average wage of a CDN worker is 46000 . They don't really fall into the our wages are too low category in my opinion, yours may differ but 82000 sounds like a decent wage to me.

I don't think they are making too much, but I also don't think they really need a raise. They do significantly better than your average Canadian with pretty nice pensions as an added bonus. I think that's a comfortable salary.

I agree with your points about corporate problems, rich getting richer, etc.. The private sector is underpaid at lower and mid levels and they should be brought up to something much closer to what you see in public service for pay levels....... I don't feel like an 82000 a year salary plus a pension puts you in the underpaid class. That being said I would agree with pay increases or large bonuses for workers in 'danger' zones.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The average Canadian worker includes every Joe Blow. PAFSO are professionals who are poring over lengthy applications and ensuring that those who get in deserve to get in.

Are you recommending we lower the bar and hope that we have the same quality? I am honestly perplexed by your comparison.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

45-55000??? really? not according to the http://www.pafso-apase.com/ .... they make dam good wages in my books

Payroll and Mean Salary
As of December 31, 2010
Level Number of Employees Mean Payroll
FS-01 216 $60,134 $12,989,022
FS-02 438 $75,542 $33,087,286
FS-03 558 $97,501 $54,405,516
FS-04 173 $110,103 $19,047,759
Sub-total 1,385 $86,303 $119,529,583
Salary Protected
FS-01 2 $65,934 $131,868
FS-02 1 $86,697 $86,697
Sub-Total 3 $72,855 $218,565
Weighted
Average 1,388 $86,274 $119,748,148

FS Classification
FS-01 Desk Officer
FS-02 Senior Desk Officer
FS-03 Deputy Director or Legal Specialist
FS-04 Senior Advisor

Tried to find your stats posted on the link you gave but could not find it. I had seen a similar breakdown where the numbers were much less. I will see if I can find it. Though understand that as a postal worker I make the FS-1 mean wage. This may include benefits as well not just straight pay.

 

[costaudjoe]

Tried to find your stats posted on the link you gave but could not find it. I had seen a similar breakdown where the numbers were much less. I will see if I can find it. Though understand that as a postal worker I make the FS-1 mean wage. This may include benefits as well not just straight pay.

Mean pay is really misleading. It really doesn't tell us very much.