Effective date of Bill C24

[CanadianCountry]

@torontosm
From what it seems, may I guess your line of work, is it IT and Computers related? The reason I say this is that the said profession doesn't have to go through licensing and doesn't have to suffer the pains of it.

Lets forget about doctors, we need them licensed before practice. Or lawyers, they need to know Canadian
Law for practice.

Why engineers have to go through licensing board registration? Why for registration the board asks for at least 1 yr of Canadian experience? Why companies won't even look, if you are not a P.Eng?

I know you will have all the answers to counter my questions. Because it seems, it's not the answers, it's the mindset.

This point has been debated endlessly, but I for one am grateful that some of the qualifications exist. For example, I wouldn't feel safe if a doctor from any country in the world could come here and start practicing right away. I've lived in countries where such a thing is possible, and it's a nightmare. Educational and professional standards vary from country to country, and I applaud the government for ensuring that all doctors, for example, are properly qualified before licensing them.

Also, there are plenty of immigrants who get white collar jobs either upon arrival or shortly thereafter. The myth that all immigrants are taxi drivers is unfounded and baseless.

 

[screech339]

@ torontosm
From what it seems, may I guess your line of work, is it IT and Computers related? The reason I say this is that the said profession doesn't have to go through licensing and doesn't have to suffer the pains of it.

Lets forget about doctors, we need them licensed before practice. Or lawyers, they need to know Canadian
Law for practice.

Why engineers have to go through licensing board registration? Why for registration the board asks for at least 1 yr of Canadian experience? Why companies won't even look, if you are not a P.Eng?

I know you will have all the answers to counter my questions. Because it seems, it's not the answers, it's the mindset.

Do you want engineers to build faulty parts that can jeopardized people's lives because they don't have the same quality level of education? No difference from doctors / nurses / etc.

But the term Engineer should never be trademarked in Canada. That's where the problem lies. You cannot call yourself an engineer unless you join the professional engineer association.

If you want to blame anyone over engineering related issues finding work, blame the professional engineering association that hold a big fat bank account, paid with annual dues, holding engineer trademark.

Screech339

 

[MUFC]

The fact that the government wants to keep the forced to be cheap labour by making them stay and serve here longer speaks enough for them to admit that there is a serious problem with people who just refuse to live here anymore...

If the people are running away, in such a scale in order to force the government to change the law... that means that Canada has a serious problem by fulfilling the expectations of all those people

 

[paw339]

Probably the biggest reason why new immigrants struggle to get good jobs and get our qualifications recognised is simply because there are too many of us. If the amount of immigration was reduced substantially then new immigrants would be in demand and pay and conditions would improve. Large scale immigration tends to be pro business and anti worker.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Do you think the immigrant engineers (in US) who are making iPhones, Microsoft Windows are making faulty products? And if you can check, most immigrants engineers working for companies like such are NOT registered and licensed (in the US). And believe me there more immigrant engineers for such tech companies than you can count.

And all the while they can call themselves as engineers without board registration. I can understand people caring for collapsing bridges and structures, for that licensing is mandatory. So is the case for Structural engineers who want to work in States, they need licensing.

The same sun shines here as in south of the border.

Do you want engineers to build faulty parts that can jeopardized people's lives because they don't have the same quality level of education? No difference from doctors / nurses / etc.

But the term Engineer should never be trademarked in Canada. That's where the problem lies. You cannot call yourself an engineer unless you join the professional engineer association.

Screech339

 

[screech339]

Do you think the immigrant engineers (in US) who are making iPhones, Microsoft Windows are making faulty products? And if you can check, most immigrants engineers working for companies like such are NOT registered and licensed (in the US). And believe me there more immigrant engineers for such tech companies than you can count.

And all the while they can call themselves as engineers without board registration. I can understand people caring for collapsing bridges and structures, for that licensing is mandatory. So is the case for Structural engineers who want to work in States, they need licensing.

The same sun shines here as in south of the border.

The difference between Canada and US is that the term Engineer is not a trademark in US. You can call yourself an engineer in US with a engineer degree. In Canada, you cannot call yourself an engineer even with a engineer degree unless you join the professional engineering association. Big difference.

Microsoft had to rename the "software engineer" to software technician in Canada over improper use of engineer in the title. Microsoft offered the course at MUN, and the association was going to take the university to court over it. They even threatened MUN that it would lose engineering accreditation over it. MUN didn't have the money, resources to fight it so MUN forced Microsoft to either drop the courses or rename it.

Screech339

 

[CanadianCountry]

Big difference intentionally created with no added value.

The difference between Canada and US is that the term Engineer is not a trademark in US. You can call yourself an engineer in US with a engineer degree. In Canada, you cannot call yourself an engineer even with a engineer degree unless you join the professional engineering association. Big difference.

Screech339

 

[screech339]

Big difference intentionally created with no added value.

I agree. As far as I'm concerned you are an engineer if you have an engineering degree alone. But you can't in Canada so again blame them association that forced companies to "hire" Engineers through the association.

 

[ZingyDNA]

Speaking of Software Engineers, I work for a computer software company and people from quite a few different fields are hired: computer science, electrical engineering, physics and math. Many of us, myself included, are NOT licensed engineers or P.Eng. But we work just as well as those who are licensed. That just shows the licensing is not really necessary, at least for software engineering.

 

[screech339]

Speaking of Software Engineers, I work for a computer software company and people from quite a few different fields are hired: computer science, electrical engineering, physics and math. Many of us, myself included, are NOT licensed engineers or P.Eng. But we work just as well as those who are licensed. That just shows the licensing is not really necessary, at least for software engineering.

But you cannot call yourself or introduce yourself to others as an engineer or even software engineer, can you?

I remember my brother telling me that took a guy from US with no engineering degree who came to Canada on a business meeting and got sued for introducing himself as an engineer, even his business card had engineer in his job title.

 

[CanadianCountry]

It's not the associations but the politicians are to be blamed for making this a law under "Engineering and Geoscience Professions Act".

I agree. As far as I'm concerned you are an engineer if you have an engineering degree alone. But you can't in Canada so again blame them association that forced companies to "hire" Engineers through the association.

 

[screech339]

It's not the associations but the politicians are to be blamed for making this a law under "Engineering and Geoscience Professions Act".

Again who forces the politicians to make it part of the law. The association.

 

[ZingyDNA]

But you cannot call yourself or introduce yourself to others as an engineer or even software engineer, can you?

I remember my brother telling me that took a guy from US with no engineering degree who came to Canada on a business meeting and got sued for introducing himself as an engineer, even his business card had engineer in his job title.

Yeah for legal purposes I can't call myself an engineer. That's probably the most strange thing I heard about Canada. I wonder what about the train engineer, you know, the guy who drives a train. Maybe that's also licensed and regulated HAHA ;D

On a serious note, though, I think "software developer" is the proper term for the programmers, and QA/testing/tech support are for the other positions in a computer software company...

 

[CanadianCountry]

The party who signs has to take full blame. Not the association, but the politicians (at least in my eye). Standing against pressure is tough, but if it's the right thing to do, that's what I expect from the govt.

That's why I don't agree to sayings like "govt knows best" "govt is fair" "govt has no vested interests" "govt is not influenced by outside agencies" "govt is best in understanding the law and law making"

Politicians have been wrong in the past, they can be wrong now, they can be wrong in the future.

So hence, they could be very well be wrong in context to Bill C-24, and bring a poorly worded piece of legislation into a law.

Again who forces the politicians to make it part of the law. The association.

 

[wilbur]

Probably the biggest reason why new immigrants struggle to get good jobs and get our qualifications recognised is simply because there are too many of us. If the amount of immigration was reduced substantially then new immigrants would be in demand and pay and conditions would improve. Large scale immigration tends to be pro business and anti worker.

Partially agree, I think that the problem resides that some people claim to have the experience/knowledge and they don't... So that's one reason why many companies ask for Canadian experience, at least you can show you know what you said.

I think that the opportunities are there, it is not easy, but for sure you can succeed. Canada is a land of opportunities.