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Effective date of Bill C24

na123

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Dec 28, 2014
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MUFC said:
If the cut off date is before you submit your application, than yes it will affect everybody.

It is absolutely not recommendable to have any travels after you submit your application, because the intent to reside clause will come in play too.
Just try to avoid any trips until the oath, otherwise your application will be in danger, because they might consider your trip as a breach of your intention to reside in Canada, and you can get a rejection because of that.
I am getting confused with the intent to reside clause now. So you are saying when I apply I can't visit the US for a week or two for work or tourism purposes?
I have every intention to live in Canada, I have been living here for 6 years and I am hoping to buy a house next year but you can't tell me that if I apply and while my application is in process I can't leave Canada for just a week as a vacation from work or for a week for work related purposes?

I know everyone is interpreting the new law because the government hasn't made it clear for the exact cases that they are looking for, but thank you everyone for the feedback.
 

MUFC

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The problem with that process is that on every stage before the oath, there might be something even miniscule that they can put an application on hold for a long time and meanwhile asking the applicant to provide different documents to support this and that...

Here we are in a dangerous situation because like you said everybody understands this clause in a different way.

So be sure that every agent will enforce this clause according to his own believes and understanding.

At the end of the day that was one of the main reasons for them to change this law right, so they will be very keen to the details specially about the travels made after the submission of the application.

This is like an additional second stage of residency requirement to be fulfilled, but they just don't want to say it directly.
 

zardoz

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na123 said:
I am getting confused with the intent to reside clause now. So you are saying when I apply I can't visit the US for a week or two for work or tourism purposes?
I have every intention to live in Canada, I have been living here for 6 years and I am hoping to buy a house next year but you can't tell me that if I apply and while my application is in process I can't leave Canada for just a week as a vacation from work or for a week for work related purposes?

I know everyone is interpreting the new law because the government hasn't made it clear for the exact cases that they are looking for, but thank you everyone for the feedback.
I have explained it here -> http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/intent-to-reside-my-understanding-t257093.0.html
 

Nuwa

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After watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMoa1vbxRWk my understanding is CIC is considering the time lived in Canada/ intention up to date of application. Please correct if I'm wrong.

In the citizenship application, do they ask about future travel plans?
 

CanadianCountry

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As per my understanding they are saying one thing, and doing another. So that is the issue.

Don't go by what is being said in this video. It's not completely true.

Nuwa said:
After watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMoa1vbxRWk my understanding is CIC is considering the time lived in Canada/ intention up to date of application. Please correct if I'm wrong.

In the citizenship application, do they ask about future travel plans?
 

dpenabill

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na123 said:
I am getting confused with the intent to reside clause now. So you are saying when I apply I can't visit the US for a week or two for work or tourism purposes?
I have every intention to live in Canada, I have been living here for 6 years and I am hoping to buy a house next year but you can't tell me that if I apply and while my application is in process I can't leave Canada for just a week as a vacation from work or for a week for work related purposes?

I know everyone is interpreting the new law because the government hasn't made it clear for the exact cases that they are looking for, but thank you everyone for the feedback.
There is virtually no likelihood that ordinary holiday travel abroad while an application is pending will be a problem. Suggestions to the contrary are largely hyperbolic.

While the application of statutory provisions typically involves a range of discretion, that is tempered by well-established principles of law, including of course the right to a fair procedure guaranteed by the Charter.

The intent clause is actually fairly simple and straight-forward, even if its impact is far-reaching.

Bottom-line, though, is that this provision was specifically aimed at applicants who, as one Federal Court justice described it, apply-on-the-way-to-the-airport. The applicant who moves abroad to work in another country while the application is pending, for example, is a specific target of this legislation.

It's application will go beyond that, of course, but there is little prospect this provision will be arbitrarily applied to capriciously deny otherwise qualified applicants.

In contrast, the applicant who still owns a residence abroad, whose spouse and children are living abroad, and whose long-term ties to Canada are weak or tenuous, and who goes abroad for extended periods of time while the application is pending, sure, that applicant is at elevated risk for running into problems . . . and the intent to continue residing in Canada clause gives CIC the tools for making in-depth, probing inquiries relative to comparing continuing ties abroad with continuing ties in Canada.

Applicants who are well-settled in Canada and who do not have circumstances suggesting that the Canadian passport is the real object, rather than becoming a citizen in fact not just status, have little or nothing to worry about in regards to this provision.



As for challenges to the removal of credit for time in Canada on work-permit or study permit or such:

Opposition to this part of Bill C-24 has little to no chance of being effective. This is, as some have noted, a fairness issue. Time to challenge it was when the Bill was before Parliament. Sure, opposition then was futile because the Conservative Government was not going to be swayed. But that was the venue for opposing this.

It is a done deal. This part of Bill C-24 will come into effect and that will be the end of that. No more credit for time prior to becoming a Permanent Resident. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be of no avail.

And, again, even with a change in government following the Federal election this coming year, this is not something which will be revisited by Parliament in the foreseeable future.
 

MUFC

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That video is a brilliant example that even the Minister has no full understanding and knowledge what exactly is written in the law about that intention to reside in Canada.

The staff in CIC will not watch and make their decisions based on a Video, instead they will follow the text in the law and the text is controversial and confusing for many...

First of all like CanadianCountry said "They are saying one thing and doing another."...

The Minister at the beginning said that this is to make sure only to make sure that the applicant have been physically in Canada for the required time.... That doesn't make any sense because this could be valid statement if the applicant is applying for PR status and he is signing the intention that he will live in Canada before he apply for citizenship.

Why they are trying to mislead the people in this cheap way.

The law says that the intention must be continuous until the oath. That's it. Everybody will look what is the actual text of the law.... and that text is completely different of the statement of the Minister.
 

dpenabill

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Minister Alexander's explanations were, indeed, less than informative, usually not responsive, and revealed the extent to which Minister Alexander was not a primary contributor let alone architect of this legislation.

There never was much doubt about this legislation coming from within a small circle in Harper's PMO.

That said, the questions put to him were also rather pathetic, largely rooted in the red herring (and totally unfounded) criticisms about how the intent clause might affect citizens. It won't. And to some extent it is understandable that a career diplomat, like Alexander, would not have sufficient facility with provisions of law to clearly explain why a nonsense question is nonsense.

Opportunities like that were wasted. Although, I doubt Alexander would give candid answers to good questions either.

Nonetheless, the intent to continue residing in Canada clause is, again, rather straight-forward. It will cause serious problems for a significant number of PRs applying for citizenship. But the writing has been on the wall about this issue since 2009 when CIC cranked up issuing RQs to applicants with extended absences while the application was in process . . . and actually the identification of this as an issue goes back to when the Liberals formed the government, and the Operational Bulletin in 2005 which identified that stamps indicating a recent return from abroad in time to attend test or the oath "as a reason to question residency."

For well-settled (in Canada of course) immigrants, however, there is nothing to worry about regarding this clause.

The biggest impact beyond the intended targets might be those looking at extending graduate level education for which the best opportunities are outside Canada. This is a group for whom it will be difficult to predict how CIC might approach an extended absence for attending university outside Canada . . . such individuals might have to consider delaying educational opportunities of this sort in order to stay in Canada while the application is pending. Another group which could be unfairly impacted is those who have parents in their home country who become ill during the pendency of the citizenship application . . . go home to spend time with a seriously or even terminally ill parent at the risk an extended absence might cause problems? Hard choices for some. If it is clear the student is going abroad temporarily for study, or the applicant is going home for six months to care for and be with a dying parent, it is unlikely CIC would deny citizenship . . . but what is "clear" to CIC is not always what we think should be clear. So, yes, this can cause problems, for some, not most.
 

MUFC

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You made a very good re-call of all the mess with the RQs.

According to me this clause will create the same mess with a lot of let's say "Innocent" applicants with travels after the submission of the application.
The reason for that is that there is no definition of how much time the applicant has to stay in Canada when the application is in process. Here I am not talking about the 10 days vacation trips per year. I am talking about longer than 2 weeks absences when the applicant has to inform CIC for his travel.... According to me this might be the red flag signal for many agents who are processing a file.

It is very possible to be the same story like the RQs, because two absolutely identical applications which are processed by two different agents... well one might get through but the other one will get the RQs and so on...

So the bottom line here is how the agents will enforce that, because for some agents 2weeks or one month absence might be OK for other it might be a problem...

It is obvious that the initial residence days required to be eligible to submit an application will not be enough... the people have to stay in Canada for the majority of the time while the application is in process.
That's why for me this will be the second stage of residency... but for everybody that second stage will be different... how long will be?... It depends of the speed of the agents... for some it will be less than a year but for others 1-2-3 years range

Bottom line

Everything depends of the agents and how individually will enforce it according to their personal perception.... according to me this will be the next underwater bolder ... just like the RQ story.

And yes ... I don't thing that there is a doubt about the fact that after the oath this clause has absolutely no impact of the person, because he is already Canadian.

Here we are talking about the period between the submission of the application until the oath, witch again for everybody that period will have different length.
 

screech339

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http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/cost-of-becoming-canadian-goes-up-for-2015-1.2168877

Price of applying for citizenship has gone up to 530 from 300.

Screech339
 

gosia

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screech339 said:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/cost-of-becoming-canadian-goes-up-for-2015-1.2168877

Price of applying for citizenship has gone up to 530 from 300.

Screech339
wow, its now almost the same as pr application
 

greeki78

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Jun 23, 2010
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The bill came to effect because it's all our fault.We elect such people to become our leaders.When they discriminate us we sit down to question and cry.This bill C 24 is open discrimination.The bill clearly doesn't want any immigrant to become citizen easily.Only Canadians born in Canada are safe.I can already smell racism.

The Canadian Citizenship fees was increased twice in a single year.From $100 it went o $300 then to $550.Is this really an effective way to reduce backlog?An immigrant who landed in Canada with thousands of dollars with the intention to reside..How difficult is it for him/her to pay $550?One of the most effective ways would have been to hire more resources in CIC for citizenship(if the intention was really to reduce backlogs)

To stop the system from abuse, we have to be part of the system.To stop racism,we have to pull it out by the roots by stopping to vote for such leaders.
 

screech339

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greeki78 said:
The bill came to effect because it's all our fault.We elect such people to become our leaders.When they discriminate us we sit down to question and cry.This bill C 24 is open discrimination.The bill clearly doesn't want any immigrant to become citizen easily.Only Canadians born in Canada are safe.I can already smell racism.

The Canadian Citizenship fees was increased twice in a single year.From $100 it went o $300 then to $550.Is this really an effective way to reduce backlog?An immigrant who landed in Canada with thousands of dollars with the intention to reside..How difficult is it for him/her to pay $550?One of the most effective ways would have been to hire more resources in CIC for citizenship(if the intention was really to reduce backlogs)

To stop the system from abuse, we have to be part of the system.To stop racism,we have to pull it out by the roots by stopping to vote for such leaders.
Actually it's 530, not 550. However the actual cost to process a citizenship application is about 555. So the government is not discriminating against anyone. Just making them pay more of the actual cost of the application. They are trying to make it closer to the passport fee system whereby the fees you pay covers the actual costs.

Don't you think it is fair on the would-be applicants to actually cover the cost of the procedures?

Screech339
 

greeki78

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Jun 23, 2010
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screech339 said:
Actually it's 530, not 550. However the actual cost to process a citizenship application is about 555. So the government is not discriminating against anyone. Just making them pay more of the actual cost of the application. They are trying to make it closer to the passport fee system whereby the fees you pay covers the actual costs.

Don't you think it is fair on the would-be applicants to actually cover the cost of the procedures?

Screech339
The government is not discriminating.But bill C 24 is.Below are few points of Bill C-24.

"No right of appeal to the courts: If your citizenship application is refused, you will no longer have a right of appeal to the Federal Court to challenge the refusal. There will be judicial review but that is not a full and proper appeal."

"For all naturalized citizens, a federal government official can revoke your citizenship if he believes you never intended to live in Canada. This could happen if you decide to study in, accept a job in, or reside in another country. In contrast, Canadian citizens born in Canada cannot lose their citizenship by living outside of Canada."

If you still think,this is not discrimination,then clearly you don't understand English..
 

CanadianCountry

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Glad to see somebody bringing up the topic of discrimination. I have brought this up earlier on this forum but usually haven't found much support. Doesn't seems anybody cares, all I have heard is to learn to live with this discrimination.

greeki78 said:
The government is not discriminating.But bill C 24 is.Below are few points of Bill C-24.

"No right of appeal to the courts: If your citizenship application is refused, you will no longer have a right of appeal to the Federal Court to challenge the refusal. There will be judicial review but that is not a full and proper appeal."

"For all naturalized citizens, a federal government official can revoke your citizenship if he believes you never intended to live in Canada. This could happen if you decide to study in, accept a job in, or reside in another country. In contrast, Canadian citizens born in Canada cannot lose their citizenship by living outside of Canada."

If you still think,this is not discrimination,then clearly you don't understand English..