Disabled Sponsor, Sweetheart in Togo

[on-hold]

^^ I haven't seen the page but I know what it's referencing and it's likely NSFW...

To the topic at hand...I am not blind myself. But I do know what it's like to have feelings for someone over the internet. For us, my online girlfriend (later wife) is Canadian and I am the foreigner. I came to Canada to work and to be with the person I love. I am from what many would say is a respectable country not often involved in these sorts of scams - Australia. But the amount of counsel she got from friends and family to stay away from me was intense. To this day, her family still don't trust me fully. This is despite the fact that my wife never sponsored me, I earned my PR on my own merits and skills, I never received EI, I now make more money than she does etc. etc...

Even if this man from Togo is everything you believe him to be, people will continue to discriminate against him and against you as long as you are together. Unfortunately, you are probably used to that already with your disability. I'd like to say this is just a Canadian problem but I know it would be same where I am from too.

This includes CIC, by the way. If this is something you want to take on, all the power to you and best of luck, but it will be your job to convince CIC that he is genuine. As others have suggested, start gathering documents NOW.

People (myself included) are concerned for your safety. Please don't mistake that for being told your feelings can't possibly be real, or his for that matter. We are simply being real with you about the dangers out there. And hey, let me tell you, love felt over the internet or on a phonecall is very easy to continue. You can take a break from it if you are annoyed. Living with someone you've loved long distance is VERY different to your email and phone conversations and comes with all sorts of challenges.

My wife and I are a success story of how it can work. You've also heard from a few others in this thread and I bet there's several more spread out through the Family Class boards here. Just PLEASE be careful and try living with this man first.

Yep, this is precisely true. Everyone is going to judge your relationship, starting with CIC. I actually think you will get less judgement here than in many places, people here have experience with the entire range of international marriages. What we call 'sex tourism' in many places blends into something similar to arranged marriages; and the Internet makes everything a magnitude more complex. What you want to aim for is to be in control on your end -- know what you have to do, how it will be done, and when. When CIC raises issues, be ready with a response to them. It can be maddening to depend upon an embassy to issue a visa, at the beginning of my relationship with my wife we needed to get a visitor's visa to America for her -- it was a bit of a long shot, and not getting it would have led to a great deal of embarrassment for both of us.

A second thing to look out for is the transition from a relationship that begins online to one in the real world. It can be extremely challenging . . . even when the people have met a few times, suddenly having it all be permanent and right there can cause trouble.

Sorry to bring up the ping-pong balls . . . People have the most bizarre ideas about foreigners . . .

 

[SenoritaBella]

Sex tourism is not at all similar to arranged marriages. That's a misconception by some people in the West. My understanding of arranged marriages is, there is a matchmaker(could be a relative, family friend, etc) who thinks two individuals are compartible and could make a good couple. The two individuals are informed and if they agree(they have a choice), they can marry. But before the marriage, some traditional(culture) rites take place and there is also checking into the background of each other's family.

 

[Mrs_Canuck]

I think it's important to understand that any relationship can be a relationship wherein one or both parties can be taken advantage of financially and emotionally - yes, this includes relationships that begin between two Canadians.

However, all everyone here is trying to say is to be careful. You could give us all the personal information in the world about yourself but we don't actually know you. We could walk by you on the street tomorrow and never recognize you. That having been said, speak with a friend or a family member about it - they know you best and will help you. It's tough looking at all the advice given to you from behind a keyboard of a stranger and yes, it can be frustrating.

Please know that if you do sponsor this man in the future, you are responsible for him financially for the next few years - even if the relationship breaks down. If he goes on financial aid, you have to pay that back. Know the facts - know the red flags and whatever you do, DO NOT give any money to anyone you have never actually "met".

 

[on-hold]

Sex tourism is not at all similar to arranged marriages. That's a misconception by some people in the West. My understanding of arranged marriages is, there is a matchmaker(could be a relative, family friend, etc) who thinks two individuals are compartible and could make a good couple. The two individuals are informed and if they agree(they have a choice), they can marry. But before the marriage, some traditional(culture) rites take place and there is also checking into the background of each other's family.

I pretty much agree with this -- but there are variations of sex tourism (in Thailand) where the men go to balls in large cities, and meet women who the tour organizer has found, who are interested in marriage and are not prostitutes. The relationships progress quite quickly, and can end in marriage within a very few days -- and in a Thai-style marriage, the groom publicly presents the bride's family with a large cash & gold payment. It's not 'classical' sex tourism where a bunch of horrid losers go from dingy brothel to dingy brothel and hang out in bars talking about how much they like Asia; but it's not a traditional arranged marriage, either.

But yeah, you're mostly right.

P.S. Remember also, not every arranged marriage is Indian-style, in SE Asia women have much higher status, and the arrangements are less formal.

P.P.S. I also said that because of the second link, which described how women who purchase sex often do so in ways that makes it seem less transactional and more relationshippy.

 

[SenoritaBella]

I see... wow! Reminds me of this show that was on TLC. A documentary done by Lisa Ling as she followed some American men who went to Columbia to find wives. It was a yearly caravan organized by some Americans living there. The girls dress up and meet the men; some could speak english well. It was like speed dating(but not as fast), with an interpreter translating the sweet nothings. One man found a woman in her early 30's who had a government job. He fell in love, travelled back and on the next visit, married her. He eventually brought her and her daughter to the US.

I had watched a documentary years ago(Bangkok Girl) about sex tourism in Thailand. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqo3DA9ymOM
She used to call the foreigners "falang". As of the time the documentary aired, the girl had died. What a sad world we live in.

I pretty much agree with this -- but there are variations of sex tourism (in Thailand) where the men go to balls in large cities, and meet women who the tour organizer has found, who are interested in marriage and are not prostitutes. The relationships progress quite quickly, and can end in marriage within a very few days -- and in a Thai-style marriage, the groom publicly presents the bride's family with a large cash & gold payment. It's not 'classical' sex tourism where a bunch of horrid losers go from dingy brothel to dingy brothel and hang out in bars talking about how much they like Asia; but it's not a traditional arranged marriage, either.

But yeah, you're mostly right.

P.S. Remember also, not every arranged marriage is Indian-style, in SE Asia women have much higher status, and the arrangements are less formal.

 

[notsopatient]

No judgement here but I think this might be a useful checklist to keep you safe for anyone getting into a new online relationship:

http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/726

 

[steerpike]

I had watched a documentary years ago(Bangkok Girl) about sex tourism in Thailand. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqo3DA9ymOM
She used to call the foreigners "falang". As of the time the documentary aired, the girl had died. What a sad world we live in.

That filmmaker is disgusting. He uses this girl to star in his film, she is the total focus and center of his film which he released and was played on tv and film festivals so i'm sure he got a quite a bit of money for it. And yet when she asks for a tiny bit of money for her sick mother he refuses to give her a penny. What a disgusting a$$hole. Exploitation at it's finest. A couple of hundred bucks probably would have been enough but he was too terrified of being "taken advantage of by a thai girl", meanwhile he exploits the craps out of her for his crappy film. Truly a foul and detestable human being. Watching his behavior towards her made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Koifish76]

People like you are part of the reason that so many Westerners lose their shirts, marrying in the developing world -- because you assume that marriage is the same institution in West Africa, SE Asia, or India as it is in Canada. When I try to explain some of the hazards that exist, you get up in arms because I"m being 'insensitive' for pointing out risks. Here in the West, if you question 'true love', you are a jerk; a lot of Westerners don't realize that 'true love' as the basis of marriage doesn't exist everywhere. Have you ever translated a letter for a rural Thai farmer who brings it to you? "What's this?" you ask. "A letter from a guy I met on the Internet." You translate the letter, he's asking her to marry him -- they've never spoken or met. "What do you know about this guy?" you ask. "I might love him," she answers. It is impossible to identify what is a scam and what is self-deception -- frequently marriages have elements of both, and when they break down, often one person loses everything. It can happen to either party.

You either don't realize the danger the OP is in, or you don't care. Let me point out some things that are real hazards:

1) She doesn't realize that the part of the world she is advertising in has a fully-developed sex industry for women.

2) She is so naive about the visa process that she heard the price of $5000 for a tourist visa and didn't realize it was impossible. This shows that the subject of money has already come up, AND that an outrageous fee was communicated to her. The only question is whether it came from someone cheating her boyfriend, or if it came from her boyfriend cheating her, and there is no way to distinguish which is which.

3) She is desperate.

4) Her boyfriend lives close to hotels, works with them too -- in other words, in the touristy areas. These are where bumsters also live.

Here's an article about West African sex tourism: http://indianajo.com/2013/03/lets-talk-about-sex-female-sex-tourism-in-the-gambia.html

Here is a very good article about how this sort of exchange is different from our traditional recognition of sex work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2401788/Sex-tourism-Meet-middle-aged-middle-class-women-Britains-female-sex-tourists.html

I have no idea if Togo is similar.


I have met people like you, who either don't see that people are in danger, or don't care, because explaining might be 'embarrassing'. There is nothing embarrassing about the OP's situation, it is completely normal -- it's not embarrassing to want to be with a foreign partner, and it's not embarrassing to consider either the risks to her, or the obstacles that CIC will raise; it's not embarrassing that she is blind, because that is normal. These are all normal parts of normal life, and if you're embarrassed by them, then you're an idiot. She's gotten good advice from other people about what is and what is not possible, and I've given her the best advice I can from my experience on this issue.

And i think people like you, who has a thai wife, continues to stereotype, more and more with each post. I can't fathom how someone can spurn such negative feedback. Seems to me you are ok with others viewing your wife as a "ping pong ball", when at the very same time, you are helping everyone on here to think it is ok? There is constructive feedback which would suit you well as you have so much to offer us. Maybe tone down on the shock posts which is more suitable on thaivisaforum, not on here.

 

[on-hold]

And i think people like you, who has a thai wife, continues to stereotype, more and more with each post. I can't fathom how someone can spurn such negative feedback. Seems to me you are ok with others viewing your wife as a "ping pong ball", when at the very same time, you are helping everyone on here to think it is ok? There is constructive feedback which would suit you well as you have so much to offer us. Maybe tone down on the shock posts which is more suitable on thaivisaforum, not on here.

You have a very limited understanding of stereotypes. Do you think it would be doing a service to anyone to tell people "This is my wife, she's from Thailand, but don't worry! She's a nurse!" Do you see where the prejudice is in that statement? Neither do I think that anyone is shocked here that there are sex workers in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter.

As for what other people thing, well -- spending your life trying to make sure that people you meet think what you want them too is a good way to waste your life.

Another reason that I don't do that is because I don't look down on sex workers, or women who find themselves on the edges of the sex trade. It is work that is sometimes good and sometimes bad, sometimes chosen and sometimes forced; I don't criticize women who are in any of its various situations. If I were to go through life emphasizing that I have married one of the 'good' Thai women that would be a lousy way to talk about all the others, who are normal people trying to make their way.

 

[Koifish76]

You have a very limited understanding of stereotypes. Do you think it would be doing a service to anyone to tell people "This is my wife, she's from Thailand, but don't worry! She's a nurse!" Do you see where the prejudice is in that statement? Neither do I think that anyone is shocked here that there are sex workers in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter.

As for what other people thing, well -- spending your life trying to make sure that people you meet think what you want them too is a good way to waste your life.

Another reason that I don't do that is because I don't look down on sex workers, or women who find themselves on the edges of the sex trade. It is work that is sometimes good and sometimes bad, sometimes chosen and sometimes forced; I don't criticize women who are in any of its various situations. If I were to go through life emphasizing that I have married one of the 'good' Thai women that would be a lousy way to talk about all the others, who are normal people trying to make their way.

Actually, I could lose my licence in my profession by not abiding by the code of ethics set forth by the college. Furthermore, I just completed a rigorious course on jurisprudence and ethics. The book is heavier than a bowling ball. I have learned what behavior is not acceptable, including stereotyping. I could list the definition or some examples straight from your posts, but Instead will use an example from my own studies.
New driver comes to live in the USA and immediately gets hit by a woman driving. On way to police station the driver is again hit by another woman driver. He gets to the police station, calls his father and says i can't live here... Women here don't know how to drive! My car is ruined! And they say it's my fault! He goes on a tirade and tells the desk clerk, who is a woman, What kind of country is this when woman dont know how to drive... They shouln't be allowed to drive". And who knows, maybe he is right, woman are terrible drivers.... But, this is a stereotype. And to prove this is not true, I simply showed my class a wicked poster of Danica Patrick...(Nascar champion)

 

[Koifish76]

To add, I haven't had the luxury of introducing my wife to fellow Canadians. And i look very much forward to the day she lands. I agree with you, that life is to short to worry about what others think, but if someone calls my wife a ping pong ball, they will meet my fist. I am not ok with insults at all, as I have a disability myself and have come across some terribly ignorant individuals. So, maybe thats why I'm on here, to use words I guess.

 

[benjis_monikuss]

You have a very limited understanding of stereotypes. Do you think it would be doing a service to anyone to tell people "This is my wife, she's from Thailand, but don't worry! She's a nurse!" Do you see where the prejudice is in that statement? Neither do I think that anyone is shocked here that there are sex workers in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter.

As for what other people thing, well -- spending your life trying to make sure that people you meet think what you want them too is a good way to waste your life.

Another reason that I don't do that is because I don't look down on sex workers, or women who find themselves on the edges of the sex trade. It is work that is sometimes good and sometimes bad, sometimes chosen and sometimes forced; I don't criticize women who are in any of its various situations. If I were to go through life emphasizing that I have married one of the 'good' Thai women that would be a lousy way to talk about all the others, who are normal people trying to make their way.

If stereotypes are hogwash perhaps then you would introduce her with; 'Hi this is my wife, her name is ____'. Why does any of that other stuff have to come up if it's not relevant? Nobody was criticizing your valid, useful information simply the way you deliver it when you attack people by calling them 'naïve, desperate and an idiot'. It's got nothing to do with what people think, it's about respect and that fact that you show none. Showing respect and sheltering people are two completely different things. At the end of the day Thea will do whatever she wants and that's her prerogative, they are her experiences, it's her life and her mistakes to make. I mean really, it's an internet forum, how much do you think I actually care about what you call me from behind a computer? I'll simply go out into the sunshine where everything you've said here will disappear in a poof of who cares and why would I give a shit? There's a way to deliver information and warnings without being rude, it's called tact. If you were really trying to help you would have realized she is more than likely going to dismiss everything else you wrote because you belittled her as a person; you can preach all you want about embarrassing people and offending sensibilities (and if you look, not once did I use the word or even a synonym of 'embarrassed' so thank you for putting words in my mouth) but my point is no one will listen to what you have to say if you are calling people names. People like me don't have to resort to name calling to get my point across and if you can't be civil then I don't need to waste my time reading anything else you post.

*Please note; I was able to relay my opinion, though it varies from others, without calling someone an idiot for theirs.

 

[on-hold]

Actually, I could lose my licence in my profession by not abiding by the code of ethics set forth by the college. Furthermore, I just completed a rigorious course on jurisprudence and ethics. The book is heavier than a bowling ball. I have learned what behavior is not acceptable, including stereotyping. I could list the definition or some examples straight from your posts, but Instead will use an example from my own studies.
New driver comes to live in the USA and immediately gets hit by a woman driving. On way to police station the driver is again hit by another woman driver. He gets to the police station, calls his father and says i can't live here... Women here don't know how to drive! My car is ruined! And they say it's my fault! He goes on a tirade and tells the desk clerk, who is a woman, What kind of country is this when woman dont know how to drive... They shouln't be allowed to drive". And who knows, maybe he is right, woman are terrible drivers.... But, this is a stereotype. And to prove this is not true, I simply showed my class a wicked poster of Danica Patrick...(Nascar champion)

I think you've made a couple of misconceptions of what I wrote. I gave the examples of Thai women as things people think when they hear the words 'Thai wife' (which, incidentally, I never use when not discussing this issue -- my wife is my wife, not my 'Thai' wife); but she's never been confronted directly with them, most people aren't that rude. There are many people who when they talk about Thailand don't have much to talk about beyond "I guess marrying a white guy is pretty much the best thing that can happen to them," an odd opinion that I have heard on occasion -- but never my wife. I don't know what to do when it happens, I like arguing on forums but am not so good at it in person, especially when I find the discussion ignorant and contemptible.

I guess from your example you think that I am arguing that the stereotype is true (based on my own experiences), not that it's misguided. This isn't really true. There IS a large sex tourism trade in Thailand, but I don't think this says anything at all about SE Asian women, or Thai women, or women in general; it does say something about Thai culture, but not anything very profound. Also, the sex trade is quite diverse, completely different for the more-invisible Thai market than for the tourist market, etc. It may be that we're using the word 'stereotype' differently, but it's not a stereotype to note that this is a large sector of the Thai economy (more than in most countries), and that some aspects of Thai culture enable it.

The entire reason that this discussion started is because the OP is in the unenviable position of triggering some really noxious stereotypes, some of which are used by CIC to evaluate marriages. This is one of the things that I hate about the Family Class applications (my wife and I came here as skilled workers) -- marriages are 'judged', which can only be by traditional standards, and in addition to all the obvious objections, these are often discriminatory and 'protective' towards women. She's going to have a tough time, and a lot of it will be in the name of 'protecting' her.

Anyway, we're arguing at cross-purposes -- if you treat 'Thai' women like regular women and respect them regardless of whether they are sex workers or not, then you and I are in complete agreement. Congratulations on your marriage! I hope your wife likes it here, Thais can find Canada cold, both physically and socially.

 

[on-hold]

If stereotypes are hogwash perhaps then you would introduce her with; 'Hi this is my wife, her name is ____'. Why does any of that other stuff have to come up if it's not relevant? Nobody was criticizing your valid, useful information simply the way you deliver it when you attack people by calling them 'naïve, desperate and an idiot'. It's got nothing to do with what people think, it's about respect and that fact that you show none. Showing respect and sheltering people are two completely different things. At the end of the day Thea will do whatever she wants and that's her prerogative, they are her experiences, it's her life and her mistakes to make. I mean really, it's an internet forum, how much do you think I actually care about what you call me from behind a computer? I'll simply go out into the sunshine where everything you've said here will disappear in a poof of who cares and why would I give a *censored word*? There's a way to deliver information and warnings without being rude, it's called tact. If you were really trying to help you would have realized she is more than likely going to dismiss everything else you wrote because you belittled her as a person; you can preach all you want about embarrassing people and offending sensibilities (and if you look, not once did I use the word or even a synonym of 'embarrassed' so thank you for putting words in my mouth) but my point is no one will listen to what you have to say if you are calling people names. People like me don't have to resort to name calling to get my point across and if you can't be civil then I don't need to waste my time reading anything else you post.

*Please note; I was able to relay my opinion, though it varies from others, without calling someone an idiot for theirs.

That is how I introduce my wife, where did you get the idea I didn't? I suspect that you haven't read my posts carefully.

 

[benjis_monikuss]

Do you think it would be doing a service to anyone to tell people "This is my wife, she's from Thailand, but don't worry! She's a nurse!" Do you see where the prejudice is in that statement?

I was simply stating that in previous posts you condemn stereotypes. I'm sure you don't introduce her to people this way but the 'don't worry, she's a nurse' is addressing stereotypes. If you want something to disappear the easiest way is to ignore it, to never say it, to never allude to it. I am not here to pick apart everything that is said; the fact of the matter is you were quite assuming in your directed post; assumptions that are unwarranted and misplaced as you have never met me and couldn't possibly know anything that I think or feel as I have never confided as much. The thing about the written word is people will assume whatever they want, whether right, wrong or misplaced. It being a forum means that everyone has an opinion and they aren't all going to be the same but that's the point; an OP needs to know all sides of a situation before going into it. Of course people should be aware of the risks they are taking but as I said right off the bat, it was never your information that I disagreed with simply the way you chose to treat me for having my say; whether right, wrong or misplaced. I was also never specifically targeted you in my first post as you did to me, this forum is becoming notorious for that kind of thing. If you don't agree, simply skip over to one you do. Nothing comes from treating people that way, face to face or over the internet. I don't want or expect an apology, I just think it would be beneficial to take a second before throwing defamatory comments towards people. There's a difference between debating and arguing as both have 'stereotypes' of their own and one is considered childish. Everyone should be entitled to have their say without being called slanderous names. I have nothing to prove and I benefit in no way in having people on a forum like or dislike me. Everyone on here just wants to come to Canada; as Canadians we should respect the freedom of speech.