Different citizenship benefits

[on-hold]

I just want to say that if you are in the 4+ year category for processing your citizenship application, I totally understand your frustration. But in my opinion, this is a bureaucratic issue, not one of violation of a fundamental human right. Just like every country claims the right to determine who from outside crosses its border, every country claims the right to process citizenship applications without interference. I don't think Canada is doing a particularly great job of this, but it's a procedural and capacity issue.

 

[screech339]

@ onhold

+1 for your thoughts and input into the discussion.

 

[AMMIE]

moving to another province

Hi Leon,

Pl. help. I came here in Canada under mpnp programme and having a permanent residence of Canada. I came with my family (wife 2 kids) I am residing in Winnipeg and having a lease of 1 year of rented apartment. my intentions was to settle here that's why I took the apartment on rent and spend 4000$ on house hold things. but I could not find a job here and even my wife is not getting. its very difficult for us to survive without job, beside of that I had applied in some another province like Ontario where I have so many ref. and friends who are ready to help me out. plz suggest can I move from here to Ontario if I get the job there. I personally went to pnp office they said the obligation is on your sponser she cannot sponser anyone in future and may be immigration Canada can questioning you when ever I apply for citizenship. but the lady was not sure.she gave me Canada immigration number also. I called cic and tell them my situation they clearly told me that there is no problem if I can move we have no issue about that.
what your personal opinion about that..... can I move without any fear pl. respond

 

[samreentariq]

Hi Ammie,

The PNP program is meant mainly that once successful you will stay in the province in which you were nominated at least until you get your PR. Once you receive your PR you are free to travel anywhere within Canada to do what is best for yourself and your family. I say this because I had a lawyer handle my PNP application and did ask her this question, she mentioned once I am a PR I can travel to any province for better job or living opportunities, I never had to exercise it of course but that was the answer I got.

 

[mathlete]

You believe you have a right to citizenship because you pay taxes. That would mean one of the conditions of getting citizenship is paying taxes. That is exactly what you mean and you can't argue your way out of that.

I have a car therefore I can drive on the road. Does that mean because you have a motor-cycle you cannot? I never said paying taxes should be a pre-condition for citizenship only that it should be sufficient for citizenship. Obviously this subtle but important distinction is far too complicated for you to comprehend.

For 10 years 4 federal elections, 3 municipal ones, 3 provincial ones and paying taxes on 4 levels I never had the right to vote. That is undemocratic. That does not mean you show up year zero file tax returns year 1 and get citizenship.

Many people have been in this country for less than 4 years and are full citizens. @asaif makes the point I'm trying to make: At what point is suffrage no longer universal?

You guys don't think paying taxes should count for anything? You think it's elitist? Well most people pay them because if they didn't the system wouldn't work. So I'm not "special" for paying taxes I'm actually pretty ordinary. You don't like it because we have different criteria for citizenship? Well have you heard of PR? You know those points? You happen to have a sponsor? Well you have a leg up on the millions of other wish-to-be-Canadians.

And by the way. You work for a Canadian company? You travel to the US on business a lot? Well if you are out of the country for more than 33% of the time and a PR you will NEVER get citizenship.

Great democracy we live in.

 

[MUFC]

Well if you are out of the country for more than 33% of the time and a PR you will NEVER get citizenship.
Great democracy we live in.

This is exactly my case, I'm travelling a lot and for that reason for me is impossible to become a Canadian, but it is fine for me.

 

[screech339]

And by the way. You work for a Canadian company? You travel to the US on business a lot? Well if you are out of the country for more than 33% of the time and a PR you will NEVER get citizenship.

If you are only out of country 33% of the country, that means you are in Canada 66% of the time. You can still qualify for citizenship as you must meet 6 months in each of the 4 years. That's 50% out of the country. You are out 33%. So based on your being out of Canada 33% of the time, you can still qualify.

So not sure what's the problem is.

 

[screech339]

I never said paying taxes should be a pre-condition for citizenship only that it should be sufficient for citizenship. Obviously this subtle but important distinction is far too complicated for you to comprehend.

Sorry sufficient won't cut it. That's a grey subjective condition. Is not paying tax not sufficient enough? That was one of the problems with applying basic residency to qualify but don't meet physical presence test. That is subjective.How much short of presence requirement sufficient enough to get path to citizenship. 5 days short? 10 days short? It is not fair that one person fail citizenship qualification because he/she was short 5 days and yet another person gets path to citizenship with 10 days short. Not consistent. Not an objective approach.

The moment you start adding considerations to the rules like paying taxes, it is either objective rule (must pay taxes), or subjective (paying sufficient taxes). Adding a subjective condition only brings back the problem of failing physical present requirement but passes basic residence test. Basic residence basically mean you stayed 6 months minimum / year. So one could fail physical presence test by 30 days but get citizenship because he passes basic residence. That is not a clear cut rule. A lot of judges been complaining how to apply the basic residence test. So one person with 5 days short can get different answers from difference judges. One judge says yes. Another says no. No consistency. Thus an applicant must meets the physical presence test no exceptions, under the new rules.

 

[screech339]

For 10 years 4 federal elections, 3 municipal ones, 3 provincial ones and paying taxes on 4 levels I never had the right to vote. That is undemocratic. That does not mean you show up year zero file tax returns year 1 and get citizenship.

You mean to say you been here 10 years and you never bothered to apply for citizenship until now and have the gall to complain about the new rules change? Sorry you snooze you lose.

Sorry I was going to have an change of heart but not anymore. Your decision to wait this long as PR and apply for citizenship is your doing. You had plenty of opportunities to apply for citizenship in the last 7 years.

Had you applied at the earliest opportunity, you would have gotten your citizenship already and wouldn't be complaining about it now.

 

[CanadianCountry]

Dont know mathlete's circumstance but he may very well be on temp work permit for a long time and might have got PR recently.

You mean to say you been heren 10 years and you never bothered to apply for citizenship until now and have the gall to complain about the new rules change?

Sorry I was going to have an change of heart but not anymore. Your decision to wait this long as PR and apply for citizenship is your doing. You had plenty of opportunities to apply for citizenship.

Had you applied at the earliest opportunity, you would have gotten your citizenship already and wouldn't be complaining about it now.

 

[screech339]

Dont know mathlete's circumstance but he may very well be on temp work permit for a long time and might have got PR recently.

He mentioned about spousal PR 5 year financial obligation and when I corrected him, either 3 or 10. So he said it must have been 3 then. So it implied he was here at least 5 years minimum as PR. Still plenty of time to get citizenship with 2 years of Pre-PR days to count towards citizenship under the current rules. Easily able to apply after 2 years as PR. Again his fault for waiting this long. He snoozes, he loses. His lost.

 

[mathlete]

If you are only out of country 33% of the country, that means you are in Canada 66% of the time. You can still qualify for citizenship as you must meet 6 months in each of the 4 years. That's 50% out of the country. You are out 33%. So based on your being out of Canada 33% of the time, you can still qualify.

So not sure what's the problem is.

To become a citizen you must be in the country for 4 years out of the last 6 years according to Bill C24 or 66% of the total time. http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?ls=c24&Parl=41&Ses=2 Do you just make stuff up in your head to suit your worldview?

Relevant Excerpt:

The residency requirement for citizenship by way of grant, or naturalization, is amended to emphasize attachment to Canada. The meaning of “residence” is defined as actual physical presence in Canada and is calculated in days. New section 5(1)(c)(i) specifies that the total required number of days of physical presence in Canada is 1,460 in six years and new section 5(1)(c)(ii) requires a minimum of 183 days of physical presence per calendar year in four of the six years preceding the application for citizenship.

 

[on-hold]

And by the way. You work for a Canadian company? You travel to the US on business a lot? Well if you are out of the country for more than 33% of the time and a PR you will NEVER get citizenship.

Great democracy we live in.

'Suffrage' is never universal -- many people can't vote. The laws about who gets to vote are decided by democratically elected governments -- that's a democracy. You want to change them based on your own opinion -- that's an oligarchy (assuming a few people agree with you).

If you want to vote, become a Canadian citizen. This is like complaining that you don't get to teach when you're a student, and paying tuition.

 

[CanV]

Re: moving to another province

Hi Leon,

Pl. help. I came here in Canada under mpnp programme and having a permanent residence of Canada. I came with my family (wife 2 kids) I am residing in Winnipeg and having a lease of 1 year of rented apartment. my intentions was to settle here that's why I took the apartment on rent and spend 4000$ on house hold things. but I could not find a job here and even my wife is not getting. its very difficult for us to survive without job, beside of that I had applied in some another province like Ontario where I have so many ref. and friends who are ready to help me out. plz suggest can I move from here to Ontario if I get the job there. I personally went to pnp office they said the obligation is on your sponser she cannot sponser anyone in future and may be immigration Canada can questioning you when ever I apply for citizenship. but the lady was not sure.she gave me Canada immigration number also. I called cic and tell them my situation they clearly told me that there is no problem if I can move we have no issue about that.
what your personal opinion about that..... can I move without any fear pl. respond

As a PR you are free to live and work anywhere in Canada. No one can question you now or in the future. Even if anyone questions you, it means nothing. It is your right to live where you want.

The province may however punish your sponsor by not allowing them to sponsor anyone in the future because a previously sponsored person has not honored what they said they were going to do. So if the province had both you and your sponsor agree and sign that you intend to live in the province for a certain time and you left earlier then they will not allow your sponsor to sponsor again. That's the furthest it could go though. None of that applies to laws under federal programs though. So if your sponsor want to sponsor a spouse in the future under the federal they would have no problem because of what you did.

 

[mathlete]

You mean to say you been here 10 years and you never bothered to apply for citizenship until now and have the gall to complain about the new rules change? Sorry you snooze you lose.

Sorry I was going to have an change of heart but not anymore. Your decision to wait this long as PR and apply for citizenship is your doing. You had plenty of opportunities to apply for citizenship in the last 7 years.

Had you applied at the earliest opportunity, you would have gotten your citizenship already and wouldn't be complaining about it now.

You know how I accuse you of making stuff up in your tiny head to suit your agenda?

I AM A CANADIAN CITIZEN. Check my post history. Furthermore I did APPLY at the earliest possible opportunity, but because I travel on BUSINESS my physical presence days were insufficient to apply after 3 years of residency. Then when I did apply my application to nearly 3 and a half years to process.

I came to Canada in March of 2005 as an international student. I worked during the summer months in various tech intern positions. I got landed through a spousal PR application in 2009 about the time I graduated and applied for citizenship in 2011. I took my oath of citizenship in March of 2015.

Time between landing and citizenship = 6 years. Time delayed due to travel: 9 months.