citizenship by convenience

[Lux et Veritas]

I was quite frank by the way a little while ago that for example I am a long term burden for the Canadian economy by working at the low end and using meanwhile all the benefits here as PR. All the people working at the low end are in the very same burden causing situation for Canada.

Trust me if I was working something good I would be mad to support all that huge problematic mass of limited financially people with my taxes.

I don't mind paying taxes- theoretically taxation is the price we pay for having a developed social contract and being part of a society that should epitomize empathy. However, for such high taxation I would expect competent management at the political level, and that's the issue here in Canada. Trust me I worked with these politicians I know of what I speak- they are the heart of the problem, not the CoC or the average immigrant as some people like to think. Anyway, we should be happy because hopefully C6 will come into effect and the Tories are out of power (and may be for a while). Even citizenship based taxation won't happen because the rich living overseas will be hurt by it, and anything that hurts the rich won't come into law

 

[Politren]

I don't mind paying taxes- theoretically taxation is the price we pay for having a developed social contract and being part of a society that should epitomize empathy. However, for such high taxation I would expect competent management at the political level, and that's the issue here in Canada. Trust me I worked with these politicians I know of what I speak- they are the heart of the problem, not the CoC or the average immigrant as some people like to think. Anyway, we should be happy because hopefully C6 will come into effect and the Tories are out of power (and may be for a while). Even citizenship based taxation won't happen because the rich living overseas will be hurt by it, and anything that hurts the rich won't come into law

Realistically Bill C-6 has to become a law within couple of weeks(before the summer recess). By the way Harper also divided the Canadians as old and new stock. I guess that therefore if a Canadian is born abroad but at the same time represents the old stock he/she should NOT be considered as CoC. Just another example of the "wise" political ideas like you mentioned about the quality of them. ;D

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Not only that but there are studies that show that immigrants are more likely to be underemployed than native-born Canadians in spite of being more qualified. I myself knew 4 PhDs who worked as cab drivers in Toronto!! I can only imagine how many there are out there. The real focus should be on why there are few skilled jobs in Canada, and why the ones there are being handed out to "friends of cousins of mistresses" as opposed to qualified people.

Funny I'm reading this CIC link on "intent to reside": "The requirement respecting the intent to reside signals that citizenship is for those who intend to make Canada their home after being granted citizenship. This requirement will support deeper attachment to Canada and it will help deter citizens of convenience". It is like forcing all foreign women to remain married to their husbands in an effort to prevent the few sham marriages that take place. Collective punishment never works.

 

[Politren]

I fully agree with johnr and Lux et Veritas, but I was somehow prepared that for me it will be tough, because usually the first generation immigrants is the most screwed one.

There is also a reason why the dominant portion of immigrants are coming from a very narrow geographical region in the resent years.
They select this region because when the immigrants come here they are likely to be exploited without much complaining , because they know from where they coming from.

So the overall quality of the immigrants is really debateable. I really doubt that the best and the brightest are choosing Canada.

Canada needs cheap labour, therefore we all know which is the dominant immigration region which Canada selects to bring here.

 

[Politren]

Ever since that intend to reside clause came up, this was the very moment I realized how helpless Canada is to hold it's own immigrants. That was a pure move caused by desperation, because when someone is leaving it is actually a prove that Canada is not that good as quality and standard of living.

It is a big negative impact over the international image of Canada, because when someone is leaving that is the last radical step to show that the situation here is not so attractive.

I also see the light at the end of the tunnel. I also will apply soon ( I am not interested in the 3 years physical presence, the only thing that interests me is the day of the Royal Ascent)

This nightmare will be over for us soon johnr.

 

[ZingyDNA]

Sounds to me you are suggesting we abolish universal health care, if you are really worried about people using it without paying for it with taxes. There are tons of people inside Canada who use free health care without paying much for it. Go after them first, as those people are far greater in number than the Canadians living outside Canada.

Are you saying that there are no such people that "only wanted Canadian citizenship" for insurance purposes only. Use it for medical care, bail out, access to social benefits when needed.

I had a case of a Canadian guy born in US (born to canadian parent), lived there all his life. He is now in Canada sponsoring his American wife for PR. He admitted to me that he is only staying in Canada long enough until his wife gets canadian citizenship. Once the wife his citizenship, they will head back to US. Now why would a guy go through all that trouble just so his wife can get Canadian citizenship.

Oh I know, he wants his wife to get access to Canadian health care for any medical emergencies. So worries about spending a dime on health care anymore.

If this doesn't spell CoC, I don't know what is.

 

[Politren]

Sounds to me you are suggesting we abolish universal health care, if you are really worried about people using it without paying for it with taxes. There are tons of people inside Canada who use free health care without paying much for it. Go after them first, as those people are far greater in number than the Canadians living outside Canada.

Many of those blaming the CoC just don't realize that the health care and the budget of Canada is ripped off predominantly from people who are IN Canada.

Every single person working at the low end job is a burden, because we are getting all our taxes back but we are using all the benefits on a regular basis. We don't pay for them practically by being here.

I got absolutely NO IDEA what is the benefit for Canada by keeping us here?

 

[surgi]

I wasted 13 minutes watching your first clip which was from 2005 and did not include a single government official promising jobs to anyone (immigrant or otherwise). I'm not going to bother with the second link

In fact it is in the second part. This couple came from London,UK challenged in the court the officials who promised them to work in their profession in Canada. What happened they found for them jobs in their profession!!! mostly to stop them to proceed to higher court!!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

@Torontosm,

I like to say something based on the comments you have made earlier.

You(or your wife) are from Pakistan immigrated to Canada earlier. As soon as you stepped in here you took all the benefits and health care which already been established by fellow Canadians or immigrants who already been here for many years before you.

1. How would you feel if you have to wait for 2 years to get any of these benefits? At least an immigrants who already been here for 5+ years, they should deserve to get some advantages after they move out and return back.

Based on your earlier comments, we know you have tried to bring a Live in nanny from Islamabad, Pakistan.

1. There are so many Canadians looking for job, even minimum wage job. Why you choose to give out the nanny job to a non Canadian if you like Canada that much?

All citizens should have every single right. They can do anything they want. If government thing returning Canadian should get less benefit, then they can make a law about benefits for all returning Canadian. That should be applied to born Canadian as well .

Like to mention couple of other points here:

1. Based on my own research, I have seen immigrants who has absolutely nothing back home or really poor or less smart like to stay in Canada even tough they have odd jobs because they know washing dishes here at least gonna give them house, car and food. But back home, if you are not smart and do odd jobs, thats not going to give you a place to sleep or better food. Forget about car, even bicycle would be a dream. So mostly smart people who is not doing good in Canada, they usually move from Canada.

2. Hypothetically think this way, the law is once you get citizenship, you can't move anymore. or keeping immigrants 2 more years to obtain citizenship. What's the benefit?

a. Those immigrants won't move. Keep extra years won't help tax payers. In fact they will use all the benefits during that time and they won't pay taxes because they won't make much. It's better they move faster.

b. About the medical, keeping an immigrants/citizens extra time here would cost more in health care. They will go to doctor even they have cold. may be 20 visits in 2 years which might cost 30000$ to us. At least they won't pay 1500$ for flight if they have fever. If they come back for lung cancer treatment, let them have it. We shouldn't feel bad to give medication someone free if they are dying.

c. Their kids might get to university here. But I don't think university is free for anyone. Yes, they might get loan but they need to pay back. In fact, coming back for university is a good thing for Canada.

Every single living thing in the world looks for better opportunity. You or your wife came here for better opportunity. If you talk about ethics, you should never come to canada. You have dumped your country of birth. You should stay there and pay taxes to that country.
This is nature of life. accept it to be happy. Even birds from here migrate to south during winter to have better weather. All Canadians(Non-native) here migrated here from different countries for better opportunities. They weren't doing well in their home countries thats why chosen to move here.
In future, people will go to moon to live but only people who is doing bad in earth will choose to go there. Do you think Bill Gates will go there? Probably not. So jealousy not gonna help, it will only make you sad.

HAAHAHAHAHAHA LOL thank you so much Jee786: I didn't know torontosm's background and the Pakistan issue but now that you've highlighted how much of a HYPOCRITE he is, I've given you a +1 . Thanks for making my day!

 

[Politren]

HAAHAHAHAHAHA LOL thank you so much Jee786: I didn't know torontosm's background and the Pakistan issue but now that you've highlighted how much of a HYPOCRITE he is, I've given you a +1 . Thanks for making my day!

This is definitely NOT surprising. The dominant portion of newcomers immigrants in Canada is exactly from this very narrow geographical region representing different parts of South Asia.
Amazing example of diversity isn't it ?

 

[torontosm]

HAAHAHAHAHAHA LOL thank you so much Jee786: I didn't know torontosm's background and the Pakistan issue but now that you've highlighted how much of a HYPOCRITE he is, I've given you a +1 . Thanks for making my day!

You should add "hypocrite" to the list of words you need to look up and understand before using. Perhaps you and Jee786 can attend some English classes together because you both desperately need them.

 

[Politren]

You should add "hypocrite" to the list of words you need to look up and understand before using. Perhaps you and Jee786 can attend some English classes together because you both desperately need them.

I think that soon we need to learn better Mandarin or another South Asian language.

 

[torontosm]

Jee786, I have been over this repeatedly with you, but as you can't seem to understand or remember my answers, I'd be pleased to do it again.

@Torontosm,
You(or your wife) are from Pakistan immigrated to Canada earlier. As soon as you stepped in here you took all the benefits and health care which already been established by fellow Canadians or immigrants who already been here for many years before you.
1. How would you feel if you have to wait for 2 years to get any of these benefits? At least an immigrants who already been here for 5+ years, they should deserve to get some advantages after they move out and return back.

Where did I ever say that new immigrants should have to wait to receive services? You, like your clownish friend Lux et Veritas, seem to take great pleasure in putting words in people's mouths because you can't respond to truthful statements.

I moved to Canada a long time back and since then, have been contributing to the system. Since my arrival, I have paid a significant sum of taxes each year and contributed significantly more to the economy than the benefits I have received. I have never minded as this is my civic duty. However, what bothers me is when I have to shoulder the burden of others for no reason. If they are truly needy, then it's fine and I don't mind. However, when I am paying for healthcare fraud committed by overseas residents, or for the education of CoC's, I get annoyed. And that's what this topic is about.

1. There are so many Canadians looking for job, even minimum wage job. Why you choose to give out the nanny job to a non Canadian if you like Canada that much?

As I've told you before, I placed an ad on multiple online sites and interviewed each and every respondent. I couldn't find anyone that met our needs and as such, I provided all evidence to the appropriate authorities who agreed that I had made every effort to canvas the local market, and provided me with the LMIA. I have told you this repeatedly, but it seems like the truth doesn't fit in to your narrow minded view so you choose to ignore it.

All citizens should have every single right. They can do anything they want. If government thing returning Canadian should get less benefit, then they can make a law about benefits for all returning Canadian. That should be applied to born Canadian as well .

Agreed. If you actually read my posts without arguing needlessly, you will see that I clearly said that the rules should apply to ALL Canadians. Of course, if you actually read my posts, you wouldn't have grounds for an argument so I suppose that's why you prefer not to.

2. Hypothetically think this way, the law is once you get citizenship, you can't move anymore. or keeping immigrants 2 more years to obtain citizenship. What's the benefit?

Please see above. I have NEVER said that citizens shouldn't be allowed to leave the country. I just said citizens residing overseas shouldn't be entitled to the same benefits immediately upon return as citizens residing in Canada. this is not without precedence as the Ontario courts ruled that overseas citizens shouldn't have the right to vote. How is this any different? And why aren't you bitching and moaning about that decision?

c. Their kids might get to university here. But I don't think university is free for anyone. Yes, they might get loan but they need to pay back. In fact, coming back for university is a good thing for Canada.

Again, if you bothered to read my posts, I never said university if free. However, citizens/PR's do pay deeply discounted tuition rates which are subsidized.

 

[torontosm]

This is definitely NOT surprising. The dominant portion of newcomers immigrants in Canada is exactly from this very narrow geographical region representing different parts of South Asia.
Amazing example of diversity isn't it ?

Actually, South Asians only represent around 21% of the total immigrants to Canada, which is far from "dominant". http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2013/permanent/10.asp

If you had bothered to do a simple Google search, you would have seen this. But then, the truth doesn't align with your bigoted views, so why bother, eh?

 

[torontosm]

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Made some screenshots just in case he choose to delete his past comments. Let me know if you need those.

Good job Nancy Drew! You seem to have a bit too much time on your hands. But don't worry, I'm not deleting or modifying anything.