Called CIC today and got starnge answer

[omaus25]

That is an excellent point nessjo, and thank you for putting this so eloquently.

Here is a good personal example, back in August I talked to a company in Red Deer AB, they were looking for a Civil Engineer with experience in specific software and on the field as RPR. Well, I had the chance to talk to the HR manager and the PM in charge of making the hiring decision. After our conversations they told me that they have been looking for this professional profile for over a year, and that they update their postings everywhere every 3 months all over Canada.

I wasn't lucky obtaining a job offer because they had a couple of bad experiences sponsoring people before and they were not willing to risk it again, but they did mention how helpful immigration was both of the times guiding them to obtain the LMIA, and that they provided evidence of postings online and newspapers as well as reports for interviews of potential candidates and the reason why they were not hired, they made it sound very simple from the employers perspective.

Do you agree with this statement for employers that provide job offers to foreign professionals?

Thanks

 

[mf4361]

Hi se7en, I am a PNP as well as an employer that have applied for work permits for my employees and I find it a bit disturbing that you are saying that this will f***k things up for employers, that it will be a mess to prove that they tried to hire a Canadian. If they did indeed try to hire a Canadian, this is not a mess. You will just show them the records of your job posting on WorkBC and the Canadian applications that you got. If they did indeed NOT actually try at all to hire a Canadian, then there will be a mess trying to prove that they did. This is probably exactly what CIC wants.

He is mentioning employers who hired PGWP worker (who doesn't need LMO prior to EE). Before EE, an employer can hire a PGWP permanently, have them work for a year, apply PR.

If EE requires a PGWP worker to apply for LMIA, that means if the current employer wants to him/her to continue working, they have to 'rehire' the same position just to show there is no other options. That messes up the employer.

If you are looking hire a person for your business now, then you are absolutely correct. Businesses should check out local workforce before looking abroad. I understand CIC wants employer to prove that it is impossible to hire Canadians first, and that's very noble to protect locals.

By making prospective CEC workers more difficult to apply for PR than FSW/TFW (I say that because people in FSW and TFW usually already have LMO), CIC is, in a way, encouraging businesses to hire people with foreign education, experiences and skills (among all foreign nationals)

My opinion of 'PGWP for CEC shouldn't need LMIA' is based on the perm term job, not a degree. Keep in mind, PGWP holders don't always landed a permanent job. Canada has one of the highest youth unemployment rate in developed countries.

 

[se7en]

Hi se7en, I am a PNP as well as an employer that have applied for work permits for my employees and I find it a bit disturbing that you are saying that this will f***k things up for employers, that it will be a mess to prove that they tried to hire a Canadian. If they did indeed try to hire a Canadian, this is not a mess. You will just show them the records of your job posting on WorkBC and the Canadian applications that you got. If they did indeed NOT actually try at all to hire a Canadian, then there will be a mess trying to prove that they did. This is probably exactly what CIC wants.

nessjo, first of all I am sorry for disturbing,
2ndly most big and medium sized companies dont care about LMIA, when they have and had open work permit holders available at the time of the job they posted. Now let say a company posted out a job this year in Februray and wanted someone inside Canada immediately for their important upcoming projects and they had 2 or 3 weeks to hire someone. Now assume no Canadian citizen and PR applied or even if applied they weren't fullfilling the job requirement and the company then hired PGWP holder. Now in March 2015, that PGWP holder who got that job, needs to apply for PR, do you think company will get him LMIA. Do you think company will have records for all those candidates who applied for this position to support LMIA application. Normally, majority of companies keep records for maximum 6 months for some position they post out. Now with the new rules employers might be careful and keep records for 2/3 years or longer to support their open work permit empolyees

 

[nessjo]

The situation that you are describing is no different from what mine was a few years ago - I originally came to Canada on an intra company transfer on a temporary work permit. When my company wanted to extend my stay, they had to advertise for the position even though I was the Managing Director and the person that had originally launched the operations in Canada. For me, well if there was a Canadian out there that was more qualified for this position than I was, even though I had worked many years for the company and was the current person in charge, I guess I would just have had to accept that. Obviously there was no person more qualified/qualified enough and my company was able to re-hire me and extend my stay in Canada.

I think it is important to consider why CIC put these new rules in place, many of the changes that they are making is because companies and individuals have used some of the old rules to get around having to actively recruit for Canadians.

 

[omaus25]

As a foreign professional, and an applicant to immigrate to Canada, I have to agree with people under the PGWP, and personally I believe it makes no sense, you have people, educated in Canada, with knowledge and ties already in the country, why not let them stay permanently? specially those with high profile jobs, young and talented. Why risk it as I was told by the employer I mentioned in a previous post, with a foreign national?

Keep it up guys, don't let this new system take you away from the goal, PR....

 

[omaus25]

The situation that you are describing is no different from what mine was a few years ago - I originally came to Canada on an intra company transfer on a temporary work permit. When my company wanted to extend my stay, they had to advertise for the position even though I was the Managing Director and the person that had originally launched the operations in Canada. For me, well if there was a Canadian out there that was more qualified for this position than I was, even though I had worked many years for the company and was the current person in charge, I guess I would just have had to accept that. Obviously there was no person more qualified/qualified enough and my company was able to re-hire me and extend my stay in Canada.

I think it is important to consider why CIC put these new rules in place, many of the changes that they are making is because companies and individuals have used some of the old rules to get around having to actively recruit for Canadians.

So for you, after many years there, you still have to go around the system until you can become a PR? My friend I feel you if this is the case.

This means that people as myself have better chances at a PR option than you guys?

 

[se7en]

I work with Bell Canada. After I was hired, my manager told me that there were more experienced and qualified candidates who applied from abroad but they offered this to me because I was in Canada with PGWP and they didn't want to go through that LMO/LMIA and immigration paper work.

They hired some more PGWP holders in this year at different times. Those guys would need LMIA next year for their PR. What will happen to them?

Those who already are working here on LMO/LMIA based work permits, they are fine. I have mentioned the reason for which I said this thing is f*****ked now a bit.

 

[omaus25]

But se7en, there has to be a reasonable approach from employers like yours at the time of helping people in your situation to be able to keep you, the way I see it, they have trained you, invested in you, as you have done the same in your time working for them, and now that for LMIA applications there is going to be no cost and only 10 days processing, that should make things less difficult when you approach your boss to discuss your options to become a PR, don't you think?

I am trying to give you positive feedback on what could happen...

 

[mf4361]

I work with Bell Canada. After I was hired, my manager told me that there were more experienced and qualified candidates who applied from abroad but they offered this to me because I was in Canada with PGWP and they didn't want to go through that LMO/LMIA and immigration paper work.

They hired some more PGWP holders in this year at different times. Those guys would need LMIA next year for their PR. What will happen to them?

Those who already are working here on LMO/LMIA based work permits, they are fine. I have mentioned the reason for which I said this thing is f*****ked now a bit.

I hear you. I was rejected by a large company for an entry level engineering job after the first interview, where I told the HR I am on PGWP. They said they will not sponsor employees for immigration and cannot give offer to people who might have to leave the country.

I guess large corporations can attract so many job applicants, they don't care if they lose few of them who don't have permanent right to work.

 

[se7en]

I totally agree with you but not sure what would be the manager's reaction on this. I believe companies shouldn't have issue with free of cost LMO/LMIA process but there is a system in big and medium sized companies. It has to go through that system process and I am sure they will be a way out for this but its not gonna happen very soon. It will take time to be matured and for companies to understand the program
fully but initally I suspect there would be problem for most of the working PGWP candidates applying for PR until empolyer fully understands the situation.

 

[kiran_6sb]

Hello Guys ,

I have called CIC 2 hours back to check regarding LMIA for PGWP holders... The agent I called wasnt having a good idea about what I was asking so he contacted his colleagues and later on he read the same info thats on website ,that everyone needs an LMIA to get 600 points.

But what I understand from this post on CIC website is ,not only the PGWP holders.. all the people who apply under CEC doesnt require LMIA .They just have to have full time permanent job under skilled to get 600 points .

A job offer supported by a Labour Market Impact Assessment must

For Federal Skilled Worker Program
be permanent, non-seasonal and full time, and
be Skill Type 0 (managerial occupations) or Skill Level A (professional occupations) or B (technical occupations and skilled trades) on the Canadian National Occupational Classification (NOC) list.
For Federal Skilled Trades Program
be for at least one year of full-time work,
be Skill Level B (technical occupations and skilled trades) in one of the eligible occupations, and
have wages and working conditions comparable to those offered to Canadians working in the occupation.
Note: For the FSTP, the employment offer can be made by up to two employers.
For Canadian Experience Class (not required but applicants can get extra points under the Comprehensive Ranking System for a job offer)
be permanent, non-seasonal and full time, and
be Skill Type 0 (managerial occupations) or Skill Level A (professional occupations) or B (technical occupations and skilled trades) on the Canadian National Occupational Classification (NOC) list.

I have spoken to my friend who works in an immigration law firm ..he showed this statement to his colleages and even they say the same ..that we can get 600 points without LMIA

 

[kvn]

For Canadian Experience Class (not required but applicants can get extra points under the Comprehensive Ranking System for a job offer)

The extra points here most likely refer to the 600 points. I haven't seen anything about getting extra points for cec.

Face it. Accept that the new rule makes it hard for post grads now and start evaluating the options available to you. Even if you don't want to accept it , start preparing for the worst case scenario coming true. It'll give you a backup plan to fall to.

 

[curious_123]

Why are all people freaking out so much...all CEC going to be under same pool right??in that case we all will have more or less same points...correct me if i m wrong...

 

[kvn]

Why are all people freaking out so much...all CEC going to be under same pool right??in that case we all will have more or less same points...correct me if i m wrong...

I don't think there's a CEC pool or a FSW pool. All will come under Express Entry pool and the system will invite the top % of the pool.

 

[nessjo]

This calculator is obviously not created by CIC, but the guys behind CanadaVisa seem to assume that you need an LMIA to get those 600 points for job offer....

www.canadavisa.com/comprehensive-ranking-score-calculator.html

Ps. Well aware that this is not official governmental info