Called CIC today and got starnge answer

[se7en]

Yes there is no doubt. CIC clearly mentioned people who are currently in Canada and working and LMIA exempt before will now require to get LMIA through their employer.

People will have to go with this reality now. Hard to digest but this is what CIC wants for EE.

 

[omaus25]

One thing that it is very clear is this, whether you are in Canada or not, we have to follow whatever rules CIC wants to implement and respect them. I still don't understand why so much confusion, as se7en just mentioned: "this is the reality now, hard to digest..."

To try to make things easier, the normal immigration programs remain in place with basically the same conditions and requirements, FSWP, CEC, and PNP... EE is only a way for CIC to filter people to let them go into one of these three immigration programs, so, if you want to apply for PR you are going to need at some point the LMIA, depending on your particular situation you could be entitled to the 600 points before you go into the PR application, (and I agree with you here on the confusion, who is going to be awarded these points and how and why). Regardless, for the PR application, at least under CEC and FSW the LMIA is mandatory, now, remember, it is easier (hopefully) for an employer now to request and obtain this LMIA for you, is going to be free and it should take only 10 days for people with the qualifications listed under EE and enough points.

SO the predicament today is how to make potential employers aware of this so they don't see it as an obstacle but rather as an oportunity to keep current employers and bring new foreign qualified professionals.

Hope this helps!

 

[Regina]

Guys guess what, I called CIC today morning and as per them if you have PGWP and arranged employment, and you will not be eligible for 600 points.

Look at the EE system and calculate your points by yourself.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/index.asp
Comprehensive Ranking System
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

 

[Carmageddon]

Guys I will ask again: where have you read that the LMIA process is going to be 10 for supporting a PR applicant?
And how should a potential employer proceed (technically) starting on January to file for a free LMIA for me?

 

[Regina]

Everything IS on www.cic.gc.ca. RESEARCH!

 

[omaus25]

Guys I will ask again: where have you read that the LMIA process is going to be 10 for supporting a PR applicant?
And how should a potential employer proceed (technically) starting on January to file for a free LMIA for me?

@ Regina, please remember that people here come for help, the legal immigration system in Canada is very complex and confusing, I bet you were in the same situation when you started to look into Canada as an option for you, so please there is no need to be so rude. If you believe that your level of intelligence is way more advance than ours then you don't need to waste time here, don't you think?

For you Carmageddon, here is a link that it may help you to understand the process now:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/employers/express-entry-sheet.asp

Here you can read about what the LMIA is from cic:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/employers/lmo-basics.asp

Now, here you can read:

Employers need to
provide a job offer supported by an Labour Market Impact Assessment, and
get a positive LMIA from Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC), unless the candidate is already working in Canada as a Temporary Foreign Worker in a position for which the employer already acquired an LMIA and the employer now wishes to extend a permanent job offer to this candidate. If the position or person was previously exempt from an LMIA, then a new LMIA will be required under Express Entry. When you get your LMIA, it will have an associated number that you will need to give to your Express Entry candidate.

This is from:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/hire/offers.asp

If recruiting from within Canada
If you have a positive Labour Market Impact Assessment for an employee holding a temporary work permit to whom you wish to extend a permanent job offer, the LMIA may still be valid under Express Entry. However, if the position or person was previously exempt from an LMIA, then a new LMIA will be required under Express Entry.

And here is your question about no fee for LMIA

10. How will the Express Entry system benefit employers in Canada?

Express Entry will give employers more recruitment options and help them better respond to labour shortages where there are no available Canadian citizens or permanent residents.

Other benefits:

Eligible employers in Canada will have a direct role in recruiting economic immigrants.
Express Entry candidates with a job offer supported by an Labour Market Impact Assessment or provincial/territorial nomination will be given enough additional points to be invited to apply at the next eligible draw of candidates.
Job Bank will provide an opportunity for eligible employers in Canada and Express Entry candidates to connect. Later in 2015, Job Bank will “match” eligible employers with Express Entry candidates who meet their job description when there are no Canadians or permanent residents available to do the job.
There will be no LMIA fee for permanent residence applications.
In 80%The majority of cases, permanent residence applications will be processed in six months of less receive

From:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2014-12-01.asp#employers

Hope this give you some light

 

[Regina]

Regina, please remember that people here come for help

Yes. I remember. BUT FIRST THEY MUST do their job.

 

[omaus25]

Yes. I remember. BUT FIRST THEY MUST do their job.

You have a good point here my friend... The amount of reading and research and such is huge, it takes hours and hours... agree with you 100%.

 

[Carmageddon]

@ Regina, please remember that people here come for help, the legal immigration system in Canada is very complex and confusing, I bet you were in the same situation when you started to look into Canada as an option for you, so please there is no need to be so rude. If you believe that your level of intelligence is way more advance than ours then you don't need to waste time here, don't you think?

For you Carmageddon, here is a link that it may help you to understand the process now:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/employers/express-entry-sheet.asp

Here you can read about what the LMIA is from cic:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/employers/lmo-basics.asp

Now, here you can read:

Employers need to
provide a job offer supported by an Labour Market Impact Assessment, and
get a positive LMIA from Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC), unless the candidate is already working in Canada as a Temporary Foreign Worker in a position for which the employer already acquired an LMIA and the employer now wishes to extend a permanent job offer to this candidate. If the position or person was previously exempt from an LMIA, then a new LMIA will be required under Express Entry. When you get your LMIA, it will have an associated number that you will need to give to your Express Entry candidate.

This is from:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/hire/offers.asp

If recruiting from within Canada
If you have a positive Labour Market Impact Assessment for an employee holding a temporary work permit to whom you wish to extend a permanent job offer, the LMIA may still be valid under Express Entry. However, if the position or person was previously exempt from an LMIA, then a new LMIA will be required under Express Entry.

And here is your question about no fee for LMIA

10. How will the Express Entry system benefit employers in Canada?

Express Entry will give employers more recruitment options and help them better respond to labour shortages where there are no available Canadian citizens or permanent residents.

Other benefits:

Eligible employers in Canada will have a direct role in recruiting economic immigrants.
Express Entry candidates with a job offer supported by an Labour Market Impact Assessment or provincial/territorial nomination will be given enough additional points to be invited to apply at the next eligible draw of candidates.
Job Bank will provide an opportunity for eligible employers in Canada and Express Entry candidates to connect. Later in 2015, Job Bank will “match” eligible employers with Express Entry candidates who meet their job description when there are no Canadians or permanent residents available to do the job.
There will be no LMIA fee for permanent residence applications.
In 80%The majority of cases, permanent residence applications will be processed in six months of less receive

From:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2014-12-01.asp#employers

Hope this give you some light

omaus25 - thank you for the thorough reply, and I've read and re-read every single link you've linked to.
I still have NOT found any clue to the statement that such free LMIA processing would take only 10 days! No hints into the processing time at all...

 

[omaus25]

omaus25 - thank you for the thorough reply, and I've read and re-read every single link you've linked to.
I still have NOT found any clue to the statement that such free LMIA processing would take only 10 days! No hints into the processing time at all...

How Long Does it take to Obtain a Labour Market Impact Assessment?

ESDC has committed to a 10 business day service standard for certain LMIA applications. The 10 day processing will only be available for applications pertaining to jobs in high demand (such as skilled trades), jobs offering wages in the top 10% of wages earned by Canadians in that province or territory, and for jobs with a short duration work period (less than 120 days).

ESDC offices are responsible for processing LMIA applications, and there are ESDC offices exist in every Canadian province.

One of the things you can do is to take the time and with patience, research online all of this information, is there and accessible easily through Google, Bing or any other search engine. If you want to understand and get familiar with the actual law is under the new EE system, I would recommend to read the December release of the immigration gazette.

Your questions have been answered on other topics here too, take the time to read as many of them as you can, and on the other hand, whether it is 10 days or 3 months, if you are a regular professional under one of the NOC listed occupations, with IELTS above 7.5, more than 5 years of experience and at least one full Bachelor's degree, and no older than 35, then you are the average possible successful applicant, and for us this is going to take with luck 6 to 9 months. So take it easy...

 

[Maplemadness82]

To obtain an approved LMIA, the employer first has to advertise the job for at least one full month. The employer must then pay a $1K fee and submit the LMIA application for processing. Based on the experiences on this forum, the processing for LMIAs seems to be taking around 2-4 months these days.

I guess the 1K fee is no longer there if the intend is only to sponsor someone for a PR under the EE scheme.
If there is a duel intent of getting an alien first on temp basis while PR is getting processed, then the fee applies.

 

[marcus66502]

I really don't know why people in this forum are throwing temper tantrums at the new requirement of LMIA for sponsoring foreign nationals for permanent residence. That's how it is in most western countries in the world. It has been like that for as long as I can remember.

Why was Canada different? This is just my opinion, but for what it's worth, Canada was different because for many decades it did not want to be overshadowed by the United States, so it was looking for attention, and used the generous immigration policies to get attention from the world.

LMIA requirement for someone without family sponsorship is nothing new. It's just catching up in Canada, like it did years ago in the more mature nations, US, UK, Switzerland, etc.

So when people b**ch and complain and cry "They can't do this to us." I have to say, "Yes they can. It's their country!" and I have to ask "Really, what other options do you have? Is it different say in the UK, or US?"

Anyone who's really been looking to immigrate and who has been checking out several countries should know that this is how it is in most places and should EXPECT it to become like this in Canada as well. It was just a matter of time.

I realize this puts many people in Canada in a crappy position but that's the same problem you would have if were under the same status in the UK, or US. In the case of the US, which I'm very familiar with, the LMIA requirement is very strict. I remember years ago reading on the official website of US Immigration that it was required of every job offer. I believe the quote was "There are no exceptions."
This was some time ago so I'm not sure if that same page exists today.

 

[omaus25]

I really don't know why people in this forum are throwing temper tantrums at the new requirement of LMIA for sponsoring foreign nationals for permanent residence. That's how it is in most western countries in the world. It has been like that for as long as I can remember.

Why was Canada different? This is just my opinion, but for what it's worth, Canada was different because for many decades it did not want to be overshadowed by the United States, so it was looking for attention, and used the generous immigration policies to get attention from the world.

LMIA requirement for someone without family sponsorship is nothing new. It's just catching up in Canada, like it did years ago in the more mature nations, US, UK, Switzerland, etc.

So when people b**ch and complain and cry "They can't do this to us." I have to say, "Yes they can. It's their country!" and I have to ask "Really, what other options do you have? Is it different say in the UK, or US?"

Anyone who's really been looking to immigrate and who has been checking out several countries should know that this is how it is in most places and should EXPECT it to become like this in Canada as well. It was just a matter of time.

I realize this puts many people in Canada in a crappy position but that's the same problem you would have if were under the same status in the UK, or US. In the case of the US, which I'm very familiar with, the LMIA requirement is very strict. I remember years ago reading on the official website of US Immigration that it was required of every job offer. I believe the quote was "There are no exceptions."
This was some time ago so I'm not sure if that same page exists today.

Ohhh Marcus, wise words, thank you for your input... It is incredible annoying how people complain about this, come on man!!!, it is their country, they are their rules, if you want to go there, RESPECT THEM, FOLLOW THEM, OBEY THEM, and if you really are a decent fella then do what it is required for you and your family to immigrate, the all reason for all these requirements is because they want to make sure they are letting really good people into the country and/or keeping the ones who deserve that chance, so do what it takes.

I have been in the US for quite a few years and I can tell you (as I believe you know already), the painstaking process of working as a professional here, specially if you are under regulated occupations like in my case (Engineering), and I can say that it is worth it and it makes complete sense.

We are here to help each other with guidance on how to do this process right, not to criticize and/or question the immigration rules. Would you like a stranger to get into your house and starting to criticize and question how you live in your own home?

Think about it.....

 

[bambooshka]

Ohhh Marcus, wise words, thank you for your input... It is incredible annoying how people complain about this, come on man!!!, it is their country, they are their rules, if you want to go there, RESPECT THEM, FOLLOW THEM, OBEY THEM, and if you really are a decent fella then do what it is required for you and your family to immigrate, the all reason for all these requirements is because they want to make sure they are letting really good people into the country and/or keeping the ones who deserve that chance, so do what it takes.

I have been in the US for quite a few years and I can tell you (as I believe you know already), the painstaking process of working as a professional here, specially if you are under regulated occupations like in my case (Engineering), and I can say that it is worth it and it makes complete sense.

We are here to help each other with guidance on how to do this process right, not to criticize and/or question the immigration rules. Would you like a stranger to get into your house and starting to criticize and question how you live in your own home?

Think about it.....

Oh here comes resident expert Omaus's another reference to his US job and a job in Alberta that he got some time back. The difference is that US uses H1B to extreme effectiveness for technical skills. Also, it really is not that difficult to get H1B for engineers. I say that as someone who was in Houston and now in Canada.

Students are the bread and butter of the economy. Students typically achieve this by pumping money into lots of funnels; food, rent, transport as the most basic ones. Then comes educational institutes that are able to get more funds based on student enrollment. The lower and middle level jobs are very much affected by students. Typically students will settle down easier and their second generation will be more assimilated. Students are flexible in their thoughts and more prone to cultural imbibement. US has handled professional occupations with a lot of care. Students are a unique opportunity, that present lot of trickle down benefits. Let's look at LMO stats:-

http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/lmo_statistics/annual-top-occs.shtml

Tell me how many engineers you see over there? Must be real nice to not retain people with actual professional skills. There is already a drain towards US for Canadian engineers. See any SV company, and it is choke full of Canadians. RIM is burning to ground. Waterloo, Alberta, McGill are big recruiting grounds for SV companies.

That being said, yes we have to respect the rules, play within them. But now, Open does not mean open anymore. With LMO, the permit applies another bureaucratic condition on it. There are a whole lot of rules that make sense, and a whole lot that need to be questioned. Even better, rules are still open to different interpretations. This is why criminal cases are not all air tight and presumably guilty are not convicted.

PGWP is a special type of visa for students, as it is open. Now immigration wants to further curtail its benefits by wanting an LMO on top of this supposedly open permit, it just defeats its openness. Engineers typically won't have a problem getting a job, but companies don't want to touch LMOs. Suncor/Syncrude/Imperial/Conoco/Shell don't touch anyone asking for LMO. So for what purpose is open permit useful now, when I cannot even work for an operator company? Typical regressive bureaucratic mess. Especially when scales are very much tilted against you.
http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/lmo_statistics/annual-top-occs.shtml

In US, after F1 getting an H1B is very easy through your company. None of my friends from my Uni have returned back. LMO condition on extension on PGWP is justified. But how is placing a condition on an already open work permit justified?

 

[omaus25]

Oh here comes resident expert Omaus's another reference to his US job and a job in Alberta that he got some time back. The difference is that US uses H1B to extreme effectiveness for technical skills. Also, it really is not that difficult to get H1B for engineers. I say that as someone who was in Houston and now in Canada.

Students are the bread and butter of the economy. Students typically achieve this by pumping money into lots of funnels; food, rent, transport as the most basic ones. Then comes educational institutes that are able to get more funds based on student enrollment. The lower and middle level jobs are very much affected by students. Typically students will settle down easier and their second generation will be more assimilated. Students are flexible in their thoughts and more prone to cultural imbibement. US has handled professional occupations with a lot of care. Students are a unique opportunity, that present lot of trickle down benefits. Let's look at LMO stats:-

http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/lmo_statistics/annual-top-occs.shtml

Tell me how many engineers you see over there? Must be real nice to not retain people with actual professional skills. There is already a drain towards US for Canadian engineers. See any SV company, and it is choke full of Canadians. RIM is burning to ground. Waterloo, Alberta, McGill are big recruiting grounds for SV companies.

That being said, yes we have to respect the rules, play within them. But now, Open does not mean open anymore. With LMO, the permit applies another bureaucratic condition on it. There are a whole lot of rules that make sense, and a whole lot that need to be questioned. Even better, rules are still open to different interpretations. This is why criminal cases are not all air tight and presumably guilty are not convicted.

PGWP is a special type of visa for students, as it is open. Now immigration wants to further curtail its benefits by wanting an LMO on top of this supposedly open permit, it just defeats its openness. Engineers typically won't have a problem getting a job, but companies don't want to touch LMOs. Suncor/Syncrude/Imperial/Conoco/Shell don't touch anyone asking for LMO. So for what purpose is open permit useful now, when I cannot even work for an operator company? Typical regressive bureaucratic mess. Especially when scales are very much tilted against you.
http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/lmo_statistics/annual-top-occs.shtml

In US, after F1 getting an H1B is very easy through your company. None of my friends from my Uni have returned back. LMO condition on extension on PGWP is justified. But how is placing a condition on an already open work permit justified?

I agree with you, I have posted in a previous topic the lack of sense in terms of making things more complicated for professionals already working in Canada, specially people under PGWP, it makes NO SENSE, if there are companies with workforce under these circumstances why not make things easier for them by allowing them to retain these talents permanently? Again, this is not fair from my point of view, and please, keep in mind that I have NO experience whatsoever living in Canada under these circumstances.

Now, you bring an interesting point: "There is already a drain towards US for Canadian engineers. ", I have met quite a few but in temporary positions, for the duration of specific contracts and projects, and this is why I am very interested in Canada's market; as a personal note I made a bad decision dropping my application to Canada back in 2007, I am under an H1B here but the lack of family in the US and working for an employer who is not willing to sponsor my green card application so he can keep control over my permanency within the company is though, very, very though.

I do apologize if the way how I write come across somehow pretentious or disrespectful, it is not my intention, and by no means (and I have stated this before), I am no expert and I am here to learn as all of us.

Thanks for your input, I would really like to discuss with you a couple of things, please let me know if this will be OK and I will reply with a PM.