Brutal Winter and a Jobless Immigrant family

[bubson]

I have read all the post from that thread and I am wondering what's wrong with you.
You have a good education, good experience and English so I don't really understand why you have such a problem.
Also I don't understand why did you post something like this in that forum as your story is only a good example of indolence.

I came to Canada in 2009, when the worst recession started. My education and experience wasn't even a half of yours and it was hard to find a good job. But I did find. Not a dream job but at least something. After a year a found another one, which was better but still not as good as I wanted.
So I started searching in different provinces as I decided to give my family (wife +2 kids, 12 and 5 years old) everything what they wish. I found perfect job in Alberta. Good salary, good company..... bountiful place

The problems were
- school started, so I was wondering if my kids manage a change of school during a year
- if they adapt to a knew place, school, friends
-my wife work, maybe wasn't good but she worked and we didn't know if she will find something quite fast
- no big money for the move

We were thinking about all those problem every day
we consider all pros and cons and and we decided to move (Oct 2013)

You say it is expensive! yeas it is but deepens of which way you choose
- we decided to rent a u haul trailer and pack all our staff so we didn't have to buy new staff in Alberta - the cost for rent was 600.
- cost for gas was 500
- and cost for motels about 300 (4 nights)
- food - we bought groceries in groceries stores and prepared everything by ourselves in motels or picnic areas.
- we rent a house while in Toronto, (online) and it was much cheaper (only 1200 inc. bills) and larger 3 bedrooms and huge backyard ) than back in Ontario (small 2 bedroom apartment for 1500).

TOTAL COST OF MOVING 1800 - maybe expansive, maybe not

IT WAS WORTH IT:
I have a great job, good money
My wife found a job within a month, good job, in her profession (she worked in superstore in Toronto cause she couldn't find a job in her profession.)
My kids met fantastic friends right after they started new school
the air here is fresher, not as in Toronto, so my kids are healthier
the views are breath taking and only few km away from city, no like in Toronto (we had to drive at least 5h to be in "wild") My kids love nature and adventure so the decision was the best we could do in order to make the more active (outdoor)

I cannot say everyone can do it because you have to have a balls to do it but stop posting such a crap and discourage people from moving here as CANADIAN DREAM MAYBE IS NOT A BRIGHTEST DREAM but it is a good country to live if you know what you want to do.

Toronto is not a hub of the universe, there is much more better places to live in Canada

 

[deerestlovelybear]

Every road point to only 1 direction: Alberta! Yes I admitted I was so slow moving there and now that I have time and jobless I am planning to move now myself alone for 1 month! I would greatly appreciate anyone there that can help when I am moving!

 

[jazibkg]

Vancouver has tons of software development roles available readily, but I don't know about specific IT/Network related roles. But I'm sure database administration positions do come along. I don't think Toronto is the appropriate place for job-hunting in the IT field.

 

[SFD]

Every road point to only 1 direction: Alberta! Yes I admitted I was so slow moving there and now that I have time and jobless I am planning to move now myself alone for 1 month! I would greatly appreciate anyone there that can help when I am moving!

Deerestlovelybear,

Good to know you will give yourself a chance. Remember " Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail"

I have lived in five different countries and I have just a University Degree. Buddy, if you know your way up, you will make it.

Stay positive that you will find great people in Alberta as well.

SFD

 

[YamPower]

Deerest, posting this is the best thing you could do for yourself if you really take the advice people have been giving you and it works out in Alberta.

Good luck, you deserve it after all the struggles you've been through.

 

[ashwinmkumar]

I would agree that IT contracting is not bad in Toronto, but it is for very specific roles (hard core programmers) and most of the jobs are short term, temporary. Regarding my background, I am a DBA and IT manager with 18 years of experience and my wife is a financial analyst with MBA. We tried to apply for everything from entry level to mid level jobs, from IT to Accounting, finance to marketing, operation. We also cut away all our qualification such as Masters, MBA etc but still does not help. My wife and I even went back to school to do a diploma in accounting but for me I did not get any job (got a few call for interview and when they found out I am not young kid they just politely rejected). My wife got a few short term "maternal leave replacement" contract but the jobs are extremely lowly paid ($11-$12.5/hour account payable/book keeping role) and none has led to a full time job. There are some months that we were close to being kicked out due to not enough money to pay the rent. The job market in Canada now is all short term temporary jobs, very few are permanent with full benefits. Some full time jobs are converted to temp so that employers can save on benefits and they know they have tons of applicants.

When I read your story, I was totally taken aback.

However, now seeing your qualifications, I think you have been unlucky at best. There are lots of jobs out there for DBA's. To be honest, I think you have missed a trick here. I would brush the old (and sad) stories aside and start afresh.

Wishing you the very best!

 

[economicalindian]

thanks for the insight mate...but most of people who are dying to get EE invite do not much options either...yesterday it rained for about 15 minutes..and there was a flood like situation in gurgaon....it took me about 2 hours to cover 4-5 kms...i am not expecting greener grass...but i am expecting some grass to be there....because in india..you pay taxes all your life....but what you get in return in nothing...

 

[bachandm]

I think we need to prepare everything before landing Canada. We could even learn a range of skills as many as we could especially those blue collar skills, and save money as much as we have.
Good luck!

 

[EEKnowledge]

Moving to Alberta right now is not a good decision, but would be a best decision in your case. Remember summer season brings thaw in hiring due to project mobilization has already happened. Btw, hiring and salary freezes in lots of companies. But once the job hiring picks up, it is Go Alberta time again baby!!!!

 

[sumairak]

bubson +1 for you.
we needed to hear something like that.

 

[Jaxon911]

Deerestlovelybear, I feel for your situation, hope things get better for you soon!

A common factor I've observed in most of the successful immigration stories is:

1. The individual had good background in term of education and experience and more importantly they were fairly early in their career, most of them in mid to late 20s.

I think adjusting to new culture, customs and environment is very difficult after certain age. If one constantly appears as a guy from outside then he'd attract attention for wrong reasons which potentially leaves incorrect impression on people.

In addition, management jobs are generally hard to find now a days and pretty much all of them strictly requires strong track record in local conditions. If after 10+ years of experience one starts applying for junior positions, people simply won't give consideration because people over 30 aren't simply suitable for those positions. Companies want to hire people with blank mind and enthusiasm for junior positions because they can think out of the box. People with years of experience are generally not very good at that.

So overall I think after certain age it's difficult to immigrate to new country with totally different culture and conditions. One should be aware that life is likely going to be tough for at least few years before deciding to migrate after certain age and ideally migrate in steps to keep costs to minimal. Leaving family behind until one gets settled is the best option even if you have money to support your family for a couple of years without a job because you ideally want to keep that money for a deposit to buy a house after getting a job.

Europeans are more likely to succeed in migrating to a western country like Canada not because of their race or skin color. They are simply used to the style, culture and customs in the west. They are usually good at English and their style of functioning is usually similar to those of locals which is obviously going to help them. So I think it'd be inappropriate to say that because of racism Europeans find jobs easily.

Discrimination is far more visible in Europe / UK in general. Immigrants are seen as a liability by some in the UK. Even UK govt uses immigrants to pass on blame for all the bad things that are happening in their country. This of course does not mean everyone sees immigrants like that. However, general perception isn't good in Europe. Compared to that I think it's much better in Canada. And to an extent people in the UK are right. There has been too much exploitation of immigration laws by non-EU migrants and there has been far more than expected flow of migrants from Eastern Europe. Property prices have risen beyond the sky, most people cannot even afford to rent their own flat or house so they share it. Crime is rising all the time, especially knife crime! These are the reasons English people themselves are moving to places like Canada or Australia.

Anyway, one should always migrate to Canada with Plan B in place IMHO. If things don't workout well, have things in place for a safe return to home country!

I wish you and everyone here good luck!

 

[Jaxon911]

BTW, can someone tell me if a strong hardcore programmer with 7+ years of experience in the UK and India can get a $100k job in Toronto?
And does anyone know about IT Contract rates? In the UK contracts pay fairly well, about £300 to £350 a day (about $550 to $600 in CAD) a day.

 

[Marlee]

Deerestlovelybear, I feel for your situation, hope things get better for you soon!

A common factor I've observed in most of the successful immigration stories is:

1. The individual had good background in term of education and experience and more importantly they were fairly early in their career, most of them in mid to late 20s.

I think adjusting to new culture, customs and environment is very difficult after certain age. If one constantly appears as a guy from outside then he'd attract attention for wrong reasons which potentially leaves incorrect impression on people.

In addition, management jobs are generally hard to find now a days and pretty much all of them strictly requires strong track record in local conditions. If after 10+ years of experience one starts applying for junior positions, people simply won't give consideration because people over 30 aren't simply suitable for those positions. Companies want to hire people with blank mind and enthusiasm for junior positions because they can think out of the box. People with years of experience are generally not very good at that.

So overall I think after certain age it's difficult to immigrate to new country with totally different culture and conditions. One should be aware that life is likely going to be tough for at least few years before deciding to migrate after certain age and ideally migrate in steps to keep costs to minimal. Leaving family behind until one gets settled is the best option even if you have money to support your family for a couple of years without a job because you ideally want to keep that money for a deposit to buy a house after getting a job.

Europeans are more likely to succeed in migrating to a western country like Canada not because of their race or skin color. They are simply used to the style, culture and customs in the west. They are usually good at English and their style of functioning is usually similar to those of locals which is obviously going to help them. So I think it'd be inappropriate to say that because of racism Europeans find jobs easily.

Discrimination is far more visible in Europe / UK in general. Immigrants are seen as a liability by some in the UK. Even UK govt uses immigrants to pass on blame for all the bad things that are happening in their country. This of course does not mean everyone sees immigrants like that. However, general perception isn't good in Europe. Compared to that I think it's much better in Canada. And to an extent people in the UK are right. There has been too much exploitation of immigration laws by non-EU migrants and there has been far more than expected flow of migrants from Eastern Europe. Property prices have risen beyond the sky, most people cannot even afford to rent their own flat or house so they share it. Crime is rising all the time, especially knife crime! These are the reasons English people themselves are moving to places like Canada or Australia.

Anyway, one should always migrate to Canada with Plan B in place IMHO. If things don't workout well, have things in place for a safe return to home country!

I wish you and everyone here good luck!

Very true. I have made the very same experience. I have no problems here whatsoever. This is not because I am a white Western European. This is because our culture is very similar, hence we do not have to adjust a lot. We are accustomed to life in the western world; the morals and work ethics are the same. So is our way of social interaction. Evidently this makes it easier for us to feel at home and bond with locals. I have to admit that I already spent part of my childhood and teenage years in Canada, since I went to school here - so yes, I don't have an accent and that helps a lot because people never assume I am not Canadian unless I tell them - but I personally don't know any immigrant from the western world who has been facing integration issues here. This is a matter of cultural similarities and differences and has nothing to do with racism.

 

[fkl]

BTW, can someone tell me if a strong hardcore programmer with 7+ years of experience in the UK and India can get a $100k job in Toronto?
And does anyone know about IT Contract rates? In the UK contracts pay fairly well, about £300 to £350 a day (about $550 to $600 in CAD) a day.

Strong and hardcore looks a bit too generalized. It depends upon what kind of experience and skill set you would have versus the kind of employer / domain you work in.

If employer accepts your experience and brings you in for a senior position, then 100K is possible. But that is subjective. Canadians do not always transparently accept out of Canada experience.

Contractual companies specially those from US - such as Morgan Stanley needing people to write trading software in C++ would offer hourly rates of 80 CAD (possibly higher) but that is just one example.

 

[Jaxon911]

Strong and hardcore looks a bit too generalized. It depends upon what kind of experience and skill set you would have versus the kind of employer / domain you work in.

If employer accepts your experience and brings you in for a senior position, then 100K is possible. But that is subjective. Canadians do not always transparently accept out of Canada experience.

Contractual companies specially those from US - such as Morgan Stanley needing people to write trading software in C++ would offer hourly rates of 80 CAD (possibly higher) but that is just one example.

Ok thanks for your reply. I am a C# / .Net developer. I have experience in writing high performance / trading type of stuff as well as modern web based portals and high security systems (I wrote an online system for UK Home Office).

I agree that my current experience will need a couple of years of Canadian experience to be valued correctly so I'm not expecting $100k straight up. But in about one to two year's time for sure.

Can you clarify little more about the what you said about contractual companies from US? Do you mean US companies hire people on contract in Canada too? If yes, how big / popular is that thing? I mean are there good number of such jobs in the market?

And in general how hard is it to find a decent programming job?

Thanks for your help!