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Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

Newbie2014

Full Member
Feb 10, 2014
47
1
I took a look at a few people's actual timelines. It does not take 3 weeks for the CIC to consider it "received"; just 1 week.

See for example the applicant "ab007" in:
https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95&title=timeline-montreal-office

Jan 7th: Application Sent by Mail
Jan 12: Application Received By CIC


It is an old entry, though. Maybe others can find more recent examples.
 

citizenshiper

Member
Jun 4, 2014
17
1
Thanks Newbie2014. This is a good reminder.

Newbie2014 said:
I took a look at a few people's actual timelines. It does not take 3 weeks for the CIC to consider it "received"; just 1 week.

See for example the applicant "ab007" in:
h t t p s : / / s e c ure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95&title=timeline-montreal-office

Jan 7th: Application Sent by Mail
Jan 12: Application Received By CIC


It is an old entry, though. Maybe others can find more recent examples.
 

glowingheart

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May 27, 2010
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done before application
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Med's Done....
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waived
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Jan 10 2013
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Jan 17 2013
LANDED..........
Jan 25 2013
Newbie2014 said:
I took a look at a few people's actual timelines. It does not take 3 weeks for the CIC to consider it "received"; just 1 week.

See for example the applicant "ab007" in:
https://secure.immigration.ca/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95&title=timeline-montreal-office

Jan 7th: Application Sent by Mail
Jan 12: Application Received By CIC


It is an old entry, though. Maybe others can find more recent examples.
people often put that the application was received at certain date when the postal tracking says it was delivered
that doesn't mean that its considered received CIC has been considering received when the officer gets the application and enters it in to the system, this can take a few days or weeks
 

MWM

Star Member
Jun 1, 2014
143
7
HELLO

I think also there must be a petition for current PR'S affect , as when they came to Canada they came under the current law not the new law, which will affect us all , sudden plan change !!! its not that easy for anyone .

intend to reside in Canada ! why did we came if we don't , plus we have already proven that while waiting to apply .

After the new rule implemented we will be a prisoner's because of that , what if someone get a better job outside Canada after applying or after his he gets his citizenship is he going to choose between his life and Canada , his family and Canada , his children future savings and Canada !!! ? what if emergency cases kept them away after they applied ? and what and what .... ? is it fair to put PR'S in a prison ?

we immigrated to Canada for better life and better people , better and better ..... , and no miss rules like what we are still seeing in our old countries , but do all of us ( as skilled worker immigrants ) found there dream job in Canada , I doubt !! ) . I ve seen ENG's working as a waiter's , x-ray Doctor working in a vegetable store . where ever you apply for a good job the answer 90 % comes back you don't have a Canadian experience job history , how I will get it and I am new immigrant .

why you want us to be in prison , those immigrants , the qualified immigrants they will raise a well educated Canadian children for better future of Canada . let them be free at least they will come back to buy a home's in Canada and pay a tax instead of staying on WF and so .

also its unfair to add years suddenly on PR'S to become citizens , and where told something else when they came to Canada .

once the PR become Canadian where ever he or she goes they will return to his or her home Canada because he or she will never find a place better than Canada.

Question : why there is no Petition for current PR's and Pre PR'S ? and the affect on them.

Thanks
 

marcus66502

Hero Member
Dec 18, 2013
290
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Newbie2014 said:
Actually, I don't even think it would qualify as "CIC mischief" in this case. This is the way the CIC has always operated. And a recent law clarified it as standard operating procedure. I can't remember the details of that law, though....

As you can see, the time threshold is the date the application was "received". Does this mean the point in time when the letter reaches the CIC? As all who have already applied know, this is not the case. The application is "received" a few weeks afterwards, after the CIC has had a chance to review the application, and determined that it is complete. It takes about three weeks or so, if I recall correctly. Which is why I think that anything received between now and the end of June will be "received" in July.
There are two "received" dates. One is the date of physical receipt of mail at CIC. Let's call this the R1 date. The first page of your application forms will be date-stamped with either this date or the next day's date at the latest. The other "received" date (call it R2 for this discussion) is the date CIC creates an electronic file of your application in their database system and sends out an "Acknowledgement of Receipt" (AOR) to the applicant. The AOR notice will state that CIC "received" your application on the R2 date because that is the date that an official record of your application was created in their system. Before that date, nobody would have been able to locate any application under your name in the CIC computers.

I believe the "received" date for purposes of application of law is the R1 date, not the R2. This is because there will be a stamp with the R1 date on your application AND because CIC will cash (or process) any enclosed payment shortly after the R1 date (within two or three days of R1 so obviously weeks or months earlier than the R2 date).

I know from my own experience that there exist R1 and R2 dates as I've described, and that there exists a date-stamp with the R1 date on your application. When I applied for permanent residence, CIC in Buffalo returned the application to me because it needed an extra document. I first mailed it on October 1st, 2010 and it was returned to me on December 23rd, 2010 with a notice to re-submit with document X. I was given 60 days to re-submit, with the explicit warning that if I did not resubmit in 60 days, they would delete their record of this "Resubmit Request" and I would have to re-apply all over again. (Since the list of occupations had changed recently, I was no longer eligible to re-apply so by returning it to me CIC was hoping that somehow I would fail to re-submit within 60 days and so they could wash their hands of me for good. Nice try!)

Long story short, when I received the returned application I noticed they had date stamped it with October 6th, two days after physical receipt of application on October 4th. And they had charged my credit card on this same date, even though they took an extra two and half months just to look at my application and decide that it needs extra document X.

This is what usually happens. CIC will date stamp with R1 date and take your money on or about this date, but then for the next 2-3 months your application sits in the opened envelope in a queue awaiting the entry of your data in their system (and thus the creation of an official record on R2 date). If you call them before the R2 date they won't have any information on your application because they haven't created it in the system. They don't go around rummaging though stacks of opened packages just because you want to know for sure if they've physically received it.

Since CIC has date-stamped and taken your money on the R1 date, I doubt it can claim in Federal Court that the R2 date applies as a cut-off for any new law applicability. It seems to me that would not hold water. The judges will say "then you shouldn't have processed the applicant's payment three months before the "received" date that you're claiming." It'll smell of hypocrisy.
 

scylla

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MWM said:
Question : why there is no Petition for current PR's and Pre PR'S ? and the affect on them.
There is in fact a petition:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/sign-petition-citizenship-act-bill-c24-discrimination-t184650.0.html
 

citizenshiper

Member
Jun 4, 2014
17
1
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing your experience.

marcus66502 said:
There are two "received" dates. One is the date of physical receipt of mail at CIC. Let's call this the R1 date. The first page of your application forms will be date-stamped with either this date or the next day's date at the latest. The other "received" date (call it R2 for this discussion) is the date CIC creates an electronic file of your application in their database system and sends out an "Acknowledgement of Receipt" (AOR) to the applicant. The AOR notice will state that CIC "received" your application on the R2 date because that is the date that an official record of your application was created in their system. Before that date, nobody would have been able to locate any application under your name in the CIC computers.

I believe the "received" date for purposes of application of law is the R1 date, not the R2. This is because there will be a stamp with the R1 date on your application AND because CIC will cash (or process) any enclosed payment shortly after the R1 date (within two or three days of R1 so obviously weeks or months earlier than the R2 date).

I know from my own experience that there exist R1 and R2 dates as I've described, and that there exists a date-stamp with the R1 date on your application. When I applied for permanent residence, CIC in Buffalo returned the application to me because it needed an extra document. I first mailed it on October 1st, 2010 and it was returned to me on December 23rd, 2010 with a notice to re-submit with document X. I was given 60 days to re-submit, with the explicit warning that if I did not resubmit in 60 days, they would delete their record of this "Resubmit Request" and I would have to re-apply all over again. (Since the list of occupations had changed recently, I was no longer eligible to re-apply so by returning it to me CIC was hoping that somehow I would fail to re-submit within 60 days and so they could wash their hands of me for good. Nice try!)

Long story short, when I received the returned application I noticed they had date stamped it with October 6th, two days after physical receipt of application on October 4th. And they had charged my credit card on this same date, even though they took an extra two and half months just to look at my application and decide that it needs extra document X.

This is what usually happens. CIC will date stamp with R1 date and take your money on or about this date, but then for the next 2-3 months your application sits in the opened envelope in a queue awaiting the entry of your data in their system (and thus the creation of an official record on R2 date). If you call them before the R2 date they won't have any information on your application because they haven't created it in the system. They don't go around rummaging though stacks of opened packages just because you want to know for sure if they've physically received it.

Since CIC has date-stamped and taken your money on the R1 date, I doubt it can claim in Federal Court that the R2 date applies as a cut-off for any new law applicability. It seems to me that would not hold water. The judges will say "then you shouldn't have processed the applicant's payment three months before the "received" date that you're claiming." It'll smell of hypocrisy.
 

thepolestar

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May 14, 2014
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Just to compare two different standard of the government.

Other day in response to a question from opposition regarding Bill C-36 the minister of justice said that there were enough consultations done with at least 50,000 Canadians on the provision of this new bill and then the bill was framed.

Why don't the Government see almost equal no. ( around 40,000 people ) who signed the petition against the bill C-24 as opposition or some serious flaw to change or amend some of the clauses.
 

taleodor

Star Member
Jan 30, 2013
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thepolestar said:
Just to compare two different standard of the government.

Other day in response to a question from opposition regarding Bill C-36 the minister of justice said that there were enough consultations done with at least 50,000 Canadians on the provision of this new bill and then the bill was framed.

Why don't the Government see almost equal no. ( around 40,000 people ) who signed the petition against the bill C-24 as opposition or some serious flaw to change or amend some of the clauses.
Watch this video, if you haven't seen: http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/Politics/ID/2460817745/

It says it all about Conservatives.

For the Bill C-36, I guess they just didn't care and/or found an excuse.
 

OTTAWA2014

Full Member
May 16, 2014
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There is only one way delaying the whole process, if some body file a petition in the crown court or supreme court and get the stay order, till the judge hear the petition and make the decision.
 

zardoz

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OTTAWA2014 said:
There is only one way delaying the whole process, if some body file a petition in the crown court or supreme court and get the stay order, till the judge hear the petition and make the decision.
That's not going to work... What's a judge going to do? Tell the Legislature that they can't pass legislation?
 

gambler_2006

Hero Member
Jul 14, 2012
258
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Whats the news guys?
Is the bill c24 affective or is still under review?
Elections are in sep or oct will elections affect the bill?
 

O_Ca

Full Member
Feb 21, 2013
29
2
When CIC imposed level 4 for language requirements which is relatively a minor change; they did consultations which lasted for one year. I don't know now why they rush totally new requirements for citizenship to be imposed within 4 - 5 months only ??????? This is not fair. :(
 

MWM

Star Member
Jun 1, 2014
143
7
Peter Van Loan Leader of the Government in the House of Commons :

Mr. Speaker, I rise not in relation to questions and comments but rather to provide the following notice to the House.

I must advise that an agreement has not been reached under the provisions of Standing Orders 78(1) and 78(2) concerning the proceedings at report stage and third reading of Bill C-24, an act to amend the Citizenship Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), I give notice that a minister of the crown will propose at the next sitting of the House a motion to allot a specific number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of proceedings at those stages.

Q1: What do this mean ?
Q2: What does it mean minister of crown will propose at the next sitting ?