Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[chakrab]

You somehow turned this whole bill into a tax-collection exercise, even though it is obvious taxes are pretty low on the list of priorities for this bill.

when it comes to canadian politics, it's all about taxes. even marriages where else will the govt force you to be married for tax reasons.

 

[Sharif11]

Back to the main subject, any real news today?

 

[marcus66502]

Governor Council has to pick a date after Royal Assent and it cannot be effective immediately because they have to prepare to set up their system. They cannot say we already have the system ready because in a democratic system, u are not supposed to know what will pass until it actually passes. But how long after Royal Assent, I don't know but I am confident it won't be less than one month.

In an ideal world, this should be true. CIC and Minister Alexander are not supposed to act like the bill has already passed, because you don't know what's passed until it's passed. In practice, however, this world we live in is corrupt. CIC and the Minister act like they know what's going to pass because it's certain that the current bill will pass without any amendments whatsoever (and all the various stages it's going through are "just for show", like everything else in this country).

CIC is already acting like the bill has passed. Just read its web pages on the bill. One page covers "What people are saying about the new bill" (all praise of course, from random people). This is not only skewed opinion but also unethical for CIC as a government agency to engage in: using public funds to propagate the views of particular political party (the Conservatives).

CIC has been embarrassed more than once in the past by speaking ahead of its turn. I remember very clearly back in 2002 when Parliament was working to pass the new Immigration Reform bill (the basis of the current point system). It was January 2002, and before the skilled worker points grid was finalized in Parliament, CIC already put it out in its website as if this was the final form of the grid. It even got as bold as to say that new applications after June would be assessed against this new grid and against a pass mark of 80, even though the pass mark had not been set yet.

This came back and chewed them in the butt. Not only was the new grid amended several times so that its final form was different from what CIC had put out in its website, but even the pass mark was set to a different point (to 75 instead of 80). Moral of the story: CIC says whatever it wants. It does not care about being embarrassed or being made the butt of the joke. This department has no real sense of its place as a mere executive agency.

It gets worse: once the bill passes, the Minister will lie and tell the Governor-in-Council that CIC is ready to implement the bill the next day. It's not true of course but he wants to get his word in, showcase his department, and of course be the star of the stage. Who pays for this? We, the applicants do (in processing times stretched to infinity). Yes folks, this is Canada. Deal with it!

 

[marcus66502]

Also, the talk about this bill from foreign students and Temporary Foreign Workers about credit for pre-PR time should really end. This is a citizenship bill, not an immigration one, so unless you are already a permanent resident, you have no real stake in this bill. This is like wanting to run when you can't even walk yet. Even if you aspire to permanent residence at a near future date, you're still years away from citizenship and citizenship laws may well change again before you're eligible to apply.

 

[doctorkb]

(and all the various stages it's going through are "just for show", like everything else in this country).

...

Who pays for this? We, the applicants do (in processing times stretched to infinity). Yes folks, this is Canada. Deal with it!

And this is the land you want citizenship in?

This is not only skewed opinion but also unethical for CIC as a government agency to engage in: using public funds to propagate the views of particular political party (the Conservatives).

Hardly. You'll note that the Conservatives *are* the government. Literally. They have "formed the government" in the House of Commons. They have a majority of seats in both the House of Commons and the Senate. The Governor General rarely goes against the Prime Minister's recommendations.

That is our system of government. The only thing democratic about it is that we hold elections every four-ish years.

 

[admontreal]

I keep thinking about examples of application of this Bill. Edward Snowden (if he was Canadian) would be deprived of his citizenship a long time ago. Omar Khadr, as discussed before, should be the first person to whom this Bill will be applied to. Even a Greenpeace activist, or any person in the wrong place in the wrong time, should worry now that the bill is likely to be passed.

Even if I don't feel targeted by the revocation measures (I don't plan to commit any crime) I start to believe that the citizenship notion will be worthless in the Future Canada.

 

[admontreal]

Also, the talk about this bill from foreign students and Temporary Foreign Workers about credit for pre-PR time should really end. This is a citizenship bill, not an immigration one, so unless you are already a permanent resident, you have no real stake in this bill. This is like wanting to run when you can't even walk yet. Even if you aspire to permanent residence at a near future date, you're still years away from citizenship and citizenship laws may well change again before you're eligible to apply.

Agree. Especially that I heard some rumors stating that Pre-PR time is considered as a non-official RQ trigger.

 

[marcus66502]

Hardly. You'll note that the Conservatives *are* the government. Literally. They have "formed the government" in the House of Commons. They have a majority of seats in both the House of Commons and the Senate.

The Conservatives *are* the Parliament, yes. The legislative branch of the government will have an agenda that reflects the views of the party in power.

However, I was referring to CIC, which is not (officially at least) part of the legislative branch. It's the executive branch, and as such, it's not supposed to propagate political views. It's supposed to faithfully execute the laws as they're enacted. That's its only function, in theory.

 

[informatics]

Hi ,

I would highly appreciate if one could provide an official link/information regarding the future business days/meetings of HoC for bill C-24 .

I tried surfing the official site but couldn't find the exact days or future dates regarding C-24 .

Thank you for your time.

 

[marcus66502]

And this is the land you want citizenship in?

Yes, canadian citizenship is more valuable than what I currently hold. The package as a whole is ugly but if I had to choose between that and what I have right now, I'd still go for the Canadian. I make decisions in a rational manner.

Your question implies I somehow have no right to speak up against what I think is wrong with the system, all because I want citizenship. You can take that attitude and shove it somewhere. I have every right to say what I think and I'll say it as I see it.

As for me getting Canadian citizenship, nobody's doing me any favors. I'll be getting citizenship because I'll qualify for it according the laws in effect at the time I'll be applying. I don't owe anybody any silence. I'm not sure if that got through??

 

[Tolerance]

Hi ,

I would highly appreciate if one could provide an official link/information regarding the future business days/meetings of HoC for bill C-24 .

I tried surfing the official site but couldn't find the exact days or future dates regarding C-24 .

Thank you for your time.

We don't know when the HoC will have the third reading, it is not in the projected business yet. But you DO know the outcome of that vote, so it does not matter really.

The Senate (the SOCI committee) will be talking about it June 10, 11 and 12.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/sencommitteebusiness/CommitteeMeetingSchedule.aspx?parl=41&ses=2&Language=E&comm_id=47&searchMeetings=1&fromDate=2014-06-10&toDate=2014-06-10

 

[doctorkb]

The Conservatives *are* the Parliament, yes. The legislative branch of the government will have an agenda that reflects the views of the party in power.

Your terminology is missing something.

The Conservatives are the *government*. In this parliamentary session, that's what they're called. If some other party manages to get a majority at the next election, then *they* will be the government.

Look at the title: "Leader of the Government in the House of Commons".

However, I was referring to CIC, which is not (officially at least) part of the legislative branch. It's the executive branch, and as such, it's not supposed to propagate political views. It's supposed to faithfully execute the laws as they're enacted. That's its only function, in theory.

The political views espoused by any branch of the government will always fall in line with the government. To not do that is career-suicide.

The "CEO" of CIC is Minister Alexander.

 

[doctorkb]

Your question implies I somehow have no right to speak up against what I think is wrong with the system, all because I want citizenship. You can take that attitude and shove it somewhere. I have every right to say what I think and I'll say it as I see it.

I'm not implying that at all. You can speak against it all you want. You were making it sound like you thought it was an unpleasant circumstance -- and I do take issue with anyone coming here to complain.

As for me getting Canadian citizenship, nobody's doing me any favors.

Uh, yeah, apparently they are. Because you said yourself that it "is more valuable than what I currently hold." I don't know what country you're coming from, but my ancestors fought in wars so we'd have the freedoms we do here. They did you a favour by making this country even exist.

 

[Tolerance]

Your terminology is missing something.

The Conservatives are the *government*. In this parliamentary session, that's what they're called. If some other party manages to get a majority at the next election, then *they* will be the government.

Look at the title: "Leader of the Government in the House of Commons".

The political views espoused by any branch of the government will always fall in line with the government. To not do that is career-suicide.

The "CEO" of CIC is Minister Alexander.

Dude, don't try to police the forum here, we have people like that already . Give the man some space.

Using public funds in public organizations to promote partisan agenda is always wrong. They should simply implement the rules and not lean one way or another.

 

[taleodor]

Also, the talk about this bill from foreign students and Temporary Foreign Workers about credit for pre-PR time should really end. This is a citizenship bill, not an immigration one, so unless you are already a permanent resident, you have no real stake in this bill. This is like wanting to run when you can't even walk yet. Even if you aspire to permanent residence at a near future date, you're still years away from citizenship and citizenship laws may well change again before you're eligible to apply.

This is about FORMER foreign workers and students, who are CURRENTLY PRs.