Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[taleodor]

Guys, u're asking same questions over and over.
Let me summarize what we know:

1. All amendments to the bill have been rejected, so the only unknown is when it will come to force. This can happen anytime between now and the end of year (don't see any reason to speculate about that, but realistically, this would be either end of this month or September).
2. Will it affect current PRs? Yes, it will. Anyone who applies after this bill becomes the law (see p.1) will apply based on the new rules.
3. Can we prevent Conservatives from pushing this bill? No. The only thing we can do is to tell everyone (who we know and even don't know) that Conservatives are evil, and under no circumstances one should vote for them. Then we have a chance to turn everything around after the next elections (which will be in the fall of next year). Other reason to do that, is that under Conservatives, even if you apply, you case might be easily delayed for years, you are likely to get RQ with no explanation why, and basically every one who doesn't make big donations to the CPC is treated as a 22nd class person. So, I suggest, we focus on that.

 

[admontreal]

Guys, u're asking same questions over and over.
Let me summarize what we know:

1. All amendments to the bill have been rejected, so the only unknown is when it will come to force. This can happen anytime between now and the end of year (don't see any reason to speculate about that, but realistically, this would be either end of this month or September).
2. Will it affect current PRs? Yes, it will. Anyone who applies after this bill becomes the law (see p.1) will apply based on the new rules.
3. Can we prevent Conservatives from pushing this bill? No. The only thing we can do is to tell everyone (who we know and even don't know) that Conservatives are evil, and under no circumstances one should vote for them. Then we have a chance to turn everything around after the next elections (which will be in the fall of next year). Other reason to do that, is that under Conservatives, even if you apply, you case might be easily delayed for years, you are likely to get RQ with no explanation why, and basically every one who doesn't make big donations to the CPC is treated as a 22nd class person. So, I suggest, we focus on that.

I agree with you.

However, I really doubt that a new party in power (in case there's a new party in power) will change or turn around the bill. I may repeat myself but the Bill has a large support among Canadians. If a * like Devinder Shory supports (and partially authors) that bill, I may also think it has support among long-established immigrants (who may have forgotten where they come from).

I'm very Liberal, but come on guys, do you seriously think the CPC cannot pass the next elections? The Opposition appears very weak and more divided than ever... the cons were able to pass after they united and agreed on a very hard (and shi*y) party line. And both Tom Mulcair (who concentrates on very strange and unuseful details) and Justin Trudeau (who lost half of the Canadian vote after his comments on Pro-life candidates) agree on the fact that they will never form a coalition...

 

[taleodor]

I definitely think, a new government can remove at least the most controversial clauses without an issue (particularly, I'm talking about 'intent to reside', out of court revocation and elimination of pre-pr time count).

As for the election outcome, I think it will be either a CPC minority or a Liberal minority. And since there is quite a thin line there (IMO), we can have certain influence. Now, if it will be a Liberal minority, we have all the chances to amend this law, assuming the NDP support. I wouldn't speculate on how big is this chance, but it's certainly there.

 

[admontreal]

I definitely think, a new government can remove at least the most controversial clauses without an issue (particularly, I'm talking about 'intent to reside', out of court revocation and elimination of pre-pr time count).

As for the election outcome, I think it will be either a CPC minority or a Liberal minority. And since there is quite a thin line there (IMO), we can have certain influence. Now, if it will be a Liberal minority, we have all the chances to amend this law, assuming the NDP support. I wouldn't speculate on how big is this chance, but it's certainly there.

From your mouth to all Canadian ears my friend

Moreover, I think a Liberal minority could be very stable, since NDP and Liberals tend to vote the same way on general topics. It could be an interesting De facto coalition

 

[us2yow]

Dani13,

Yet again, it is a classic case of a few people who abused the system and thousands of others paying the price ! Then there was all this overzealous application of somewhat fascist and rigid rules ad infinitum - like the RQ fiasco which was so overdone I think CIC was likely swimming in rooms with tons of papers.

Meanwhile, all those people who got citizenship in laxer times are happily traveling the globe and doing their thing - as any native Canadian might with the right to do as they choose.

But, the damage was done and it is - paradoxically - the ones who come later that pay for the egregious mistakes of the few. Don't you almost want to throw rotten eggs at that other group who screwed it up for everybody !

 

[Dani13]

I am personally completely horrified that this bill will not be applied to newcomers only.

The way I look at it is that coming to Canada was a form of contract whereby I move here, study or work here, pay my taxes and fulfill the requirements of 3 years and that when I apply I have the right to citizenship ( or grant as they like to call it). you can;t just go ahead and revoke that... you have the right to , but to new immigrants that have the choice whether they want to come here based on those terms or not. Had I had those new requirements presented to me before moving here I wouldn't have moved.
I have read this entire thread and I do agree with Canadians' frustrations of people that abuse the system. But how the hell does this bill help at all with that ?! I mean that's the whole point of it isn't it ? Telling Canadians that this bill would strengthen citizenship and increase in its "value" when all I see is an agenda to deter immigrants and only make it harder for them to obtain citizenship. It does nothing to solve how frauds cheat the system.

To the people who say that if you intend to live in Canada you have nothing to worry about since you're living here anyway: It does not feel good feeling like a "prisoner" just because you have to fulfill the number of days needed. It is extremely stressful. I have to travel a lot and that has screwed up my calculations. I feel I am Canadian and I want it to be formal. Since I'm living here I want to have my full rights as soon as possible. I want to vote!
I moved to Canada feeling part of the community and dreaming of equality,however, I feel I am forced to being alienated and being treated differently based on a few incidents that have happened. To whoever has had a good run with CIC with their applications you should consider yourself very lucky.

I apologize for the long post and I wish you all the best of luck!! Time will only tell how this will affect us.

 

[Dani13]

Dani13,

Yet again, it is a classic case of a few people who abused the system and thousands of others paying the price ! Then there was all this overzealous application of somewhat fascist and rigid rules ad infinitum - like the RQ fiasco which was so overdone I think CIC was likely swimming in rooms with tons of papers.

Meanwhile, all those people who got citizenship in laxer times are happily traveling the globe and doing their thing - as any native Canadian might with the right to do as they choose.

But, the damage was done and it is - paradoxically - the ones who come later that pay for the egregious mistakes of the few. Don't you almost want to throw rotten eggs at that other group who screwed it up for everybody !

Us2yow,
sorry removed the post when I had wanted to modify it.
Oh yes I sure do, those extreme minority has made it hard on all of us right now. I hate that my luck forced me to wait until now when I could've applied a year back. never saw this coming!

 

[us2yow]

Dani13, when are you ready to apply?

 

[Dani13]

Beginning of November if I don't leave for a single day. So I feel my chances are bleak lol

 

[Travel Dream]

I have a question please.

After the bill become effective does it go automatically to supreme court or it need someone to do this. And if it goes to supreme court how long it takes to respond.

 

[sazamizi]

Somebody needs to bring it to Supreme Court. It's not going there automatically.
I wanted to suggest people who are more active and knowledgeable about this stuff contact the law societies and Canadian human rights societies and ask help from them to make an official complaint against Conservative government to Supreme Court. I think it's doable and possible. Definitely, between us there are some lawyers from different background and they can do it easily.
Like the petition we signed, we can also do this job, too.

 

[maza]

I am in full support of that... Alexander .. we need your help here too please , as ur help with the petition..

 

[2_of_5]

I am personally completely horrified that this bill will not be applied to newcomers only.

The way I look at it is that coming to Canada was a form of contract whereby I move here, study or work here, pay my taxes and fulfill the requirements of 3 years and that when I apply I have the right to citizenship ( or grant as they like to call it). you can;t just go ahead and revoke that... you have the right to , but to new immigrants that have the choice whether they want to come here based on those terms or not. Had I had those new requirements presented to me before moving here I wouldn't have moved.
I have read this entire thread and I do agree with Canadians' frustrations of people that abuse the system. But how the hell does this bill help at all with that ?! I mean that's the whole point of it isn't it ? Telling Canadians that this bill would strengthen citizenship and increase in its "value" when all I see is an agenda to deter immigrants and only make it harder for them to obtain citizenship. It does nothing to solve how frauds cheat the system.

To the people who say that if you intend to live in Canada you have nothing to worry about since you're living here anyway: It does not feel good feeling like a "prisoner" just because you have to fulfill the number of days needed. It is extremely stressful. I have to travel a lot and that has screwed up my calculations. I feel I am Canadian and I want it to be formal. Since I'm living here I want to have my full rights as soon as possible. I want to vote!
I moved to Canada feeling part of the community and dreaming of equality,however, I feel I am forced to being alienated and being treated differently based on a few incidents that have happened. To whoever has had a good run with CIC with their applications you should consider yourself very lucky.

I apologize for the long post and I wish you all the best of luck!! Time will only tell how this will affect us.

I agree with you Dani13. I came here exactly four years ago this week, accepting a job as a TFW with the understanding that I could apply for PR after two years, under the Canadian Experience Class. I had to make a decision at that point on where to live: my soon-to-be wife was a permanent resident in the EU, and would have been able to sponsor me there right away. But we made the decision to choose Canada. I still believe we made the right decision, but the fact is we made a choice based on what Canada presented to us. After we had lived here two and a half years, and had our PR application in process for six months already, CIC reduced the time requirement to apply for CEC down to just one year, but it didn't apply to us. Unfortunately the change came too late for us.

We landed at the end of June last year, and if CIC had made the CEC changes earlier, we would have landed probably end of June 2012, thus applying for citizenship next month, July 2014. As it looks now, we got shafted out of the shorter residence requirement for CEC after we had already applied, pushing us back to July 2015. Now, when C-24 comes into effect, it will push us back to July 2017.

I am a US citizen, and living as a US citizen anywhere outside of the borders of the USA is rife with stress, paperwork, forms and crushing penalties for the slightest mistake. It also limits your opportunities in life. I for all practical purposes cannot own a business without subjecting myself to obscene amounts of intrusive paperwork demanded by the US government. I am treated by them as property. I do not want to live that way, and NEED to renounce my US citizenship as soon as possible so that I can get on with the possibly short remainder of my life (I'm now over 50 years old). If I have to wait until 2017 to simply apply for Canadian citizenship, then wait a year or two for processing time, that makes it possibly 2019 before I can submit my renunciation paperwork. But by that time the waiting period to complete a renunciation could be years, if they haven't stopped people from renouncing by that time. The line to leave the USA is getting longer day by day, so how long will it be for me now because of C-24? Am I now trapped as US property for essentially the rest of my life because of the Conservative party?

I made a choice for Canada, but some days I feel I made the wrong choice if this is the way they are going to treat newcomers. I could have had Belgian citizenship already if I had made the other choice.

 

[us2yow]

Canadian Bar Association Requests Apology for Chris Alexander's Disrespectful Comments

http://immlawyer.blogs.com/files/bill-c-24-letter-1.pdf

 

[ghatot201]

I agree with you Dani13. I came here exactly four years ago this week, accepting a job as a TFW with the understanding that I could apply for PR after two years, under the Canadian Experience Class. I had to make a decision at that point on where to live: my soon-to-be wife was a permanent resident in the EU, and would have been able to sponsor me there right away. But we made the decision to choose Canada. I still believe we made the right decision, but the fact is we made a choice based on what Canada presented to us. After we had lived here two and a half years, and had our PR application in process for six months already, CIC reduced the time requirement to apply for CEC down to just one year, but it didn't apply to us. Unfortunately the change came too late for us.

We landed at the end of June last year, and if CIC had made the CEC changes earlier, we would have landed probably end of June 2012, thus applying for citizenship next month, July 2014. As it looks now, we got shafted out of the shorter residence requirement for CEC after we had already applied, pushing us back to July 2015. Now, when C-24 comes into effect, it will push us back to July 2017.

I am a US citizen, and living as a US citizen anywhere outside of the borders of the USA is rife with stress, paperwork, forms and crushing penalties for the slightest mistake. It also limits your opportunities in life. I for all practical purposes cannot own a business without subjecting myself to obscene amounts of intrusive paperwork demanded by the US government. I am treated by them as property. I do not want to live that way, and NEED to renounce my US citizenship as soon as possible so that I can get on with the possibly short remainder of my life (I'm now over 50 years old). If I have to wait until 2017 to simply apply for Canadian citizenship, then wait a year or two for processing time, that makes it possibly 2019 before I can submit my renunciation paperwork. But by that time the waiting period to complete a renunciation could be years, if they haven't stopped people from renouncing by that time. The line to leave the USA is getting longer day by day, so how long will it be for me now because of C-24? Am I now trapped as US property for essentially the rest of my life because of the Conservative party?

I made a choice for Canada, but some days I feel I made the wrong choice if this is the way they are going to treat newcomers. I could have had Belgian citizenship already if I had made the other choice.

I feel for you, I can also relate to what you are going through. I could have had EU citizenship by now if I had chosen Europe over Canada in 2011. Well....